mkt size can't be right

[fredbeene]

Season 1954
Cleveland
Market size (0-20) THAT IS what OOTP has on the screen
the setting is set at 6
I manually changed it 10. Went back to FRONT OFFICE and the the market size is now ASTRONOMICAL.
Why!?!? if it 10 is in the middle of 0 and 20?

[Brad K]

Who knows why. Its been that way forever. Now that you know the scale isn't linear you can adjust accordingly.

[Leo_The_Lip]

When I start a fictional league, I set all teams to size 7. That seems to work for awhile as the first changes tend to be +/-1 to 6 or 8 and that does not harm anything until I grow bored and fire up something new.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

When I start a fictional league, I set all teams to size 7. That seems to work for awhile as the first changes tend to be +/-1 to 6 or 8 and that does not harm anything until I grow bored and fire up something new.

Thanks - seems like a simple fix.
I just wanted to make sure i wasn't doing something wrong or misunderstanding a basic feature

[Syd Thrift]

Think of market sizes as between 1 and 10, with 11 to 20 only being used if you have a truly massive market in there, like the Yankees in the 40s and early 50s. It's not dissimilar to the way the game handles player ratings; internally they're 1-250 but very rarely do they go over 200.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[bwburke94]

Technically, aren't ratings 1-255 (with 0 representing null)? I remember a few years ago, there was a guy in the default quickstart with 253 pitcher stamina.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Technically, aren't ratings 1-255 (with 0 representing null)? I remember a few years ago, there was a guy in the default quickstart with 253 pitcher stamina.

They specifically said that players can have higher than 255 now in PT and there was a bug that got quashed earlier where some relief pitchers were getting ratings higher than 255 when you re imported them. So, it looks like the whole unsigned int thing has gone away...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

When I start a fictional league, I set all teams to size 7. That seems to work for awhile as the first changes tend to be +/-1 to 6 or 8 and that does not harm anything until I grow bored and fire up something new.

Do you remember what "size" is a result of using 7 in the settings? Big? Hey, Leo... Were you a bookie in a previous life? We've got a guy up here, retired now... Lou_The_Shoe. I thought maybe you guys were related.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Think of market sizes as between 1 and 10, with 11 to 20 only being used if you have a truly massive market in there, like the Yankees in the 40s and early 50s. It's not dissimilar to the way the game handles player ratings; internally they're 1-250 but very rarely do they go over 200.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Ahhh...Maybe those larger numbers are necessary for back in the day when there weren't as many teams? When I first discovered there was something called "Market Size" and "Fan Interest" in my Front Office, I took a peek around the league. I don't remember everyone, but I do remember the California Angeles has a larger Market Size than my beloved New York Yankees. And the Philadelphia Phillies have a MUCH larger Market Size.

[fredbeene]

just fired up 76 hx....picked cincy..
their mkt size is ASTRONOMICAL.

i am guess there is some random factor when you load season

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

just fired up 76 hx....picked cincy..
their mkt size is ASTRONOMICAL.

i am guess there is some random factor when you load season

I don't think I'd use the word random, necessarily, but I think Syd Thrift is 100% correct when he said that different eras had different market sizes for the same team. There wasn't a better baseball team on earth than the Cincinatti Reds in 1976. I'm sure in that geographical area of the US in 1976 was absolutely bonkers for the Big Red Machine. So, it makes sense.

[Syd Thrift]

I’d imagine market sizes are based on attendance, and Cincinnati led he league in attendance in 1976.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I’d imagine market sizes are based on attendance, and Cincinnati led he league in attendance in 1976.

hmmm thanks...but that doesn't make sense..
mkt size (in my mind) is the pool of people in your geographic area.
loyalty and enthusiasm .....

i would have thought mkt size is relatively fixed.
so cincy 76 is mid, small,
but loyalty and enthusiasm should astronimical

but maybe there is something to post about popular pulling in other areas.

I guess that is why i see (strange to me) mkt sizes for chicago and detroit....those should be BIG.....with loyalty and enthusiam low for low attendance years

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

hmmm thanks...but that doesn't make sense..
mkt size (in my mind) is the pool of people in your geographic area.
loyalty and enthusiasm .....

i would have thought mkt size is relatively fixed.
so cincy 76 is mid, small,
but loyalty and enthusiasm should astronimical

but maybe there is something to post about popular pulling in other areas.

I guess that is why i see (strange to me) mkt sizes for chicago and detroit....those should be BIG.....with loyalty and enthusiam low for low attendance years

I'm roughly 99.99999999999% positive that the database the game creates stats from does not have a metro area population entry.

[fredbeene]

Hmmm here are 2 teams from 1954, BAL and DET.
16th and 14th in attendance.

There should be a setting for attendance impact of opposing team.
ie the Yanks always draw at every ballpark

[Questdog]

Market sizes in OOTP are initially set based on the team payroll when you start a league. The game wants to set the market size high enough so the team can afford to pay its players. The size of the actual market does not matter a bit. If you want it to, then you have to have an initial draft with set budgets and base those budgets on population or manually set them yourself.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Market sizes in OOTP are initially set based on the team payroll when you start a league. The game wants to set the market size high enough so the team can afford to pay its players. The size of the actual market does not matter a bit. If you want it to, then you have to have an initial draft with set budgets and base those budgets on population or manually set them yourself.

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense as well. I'd *love* to see the game incorporate historical census data to factor into this somehow as well but there's a good argument to be made, especially in the 16 teams / 10 cities era, that mere population doesn't begin to tell the whole story. Consider how the Yankees were *massive* but the Giants and Dodgers both played like mid-market teams, to the extent that the Dodgers even had attendance issues during their dynasty run in the 50s, or how the Red Sox and Braves played in the same market but while the Red Sox were certainly a large market team, the Braves really were not until they moved out to Milwaukee, or for that matter how St. Louis often played like a medium to large sized market for the Cardinals whereas the Browns couldn't buy fans (Bill Veeck I know insists that he could have forced the Cards out of town had they not been purchased by Gussie Busch, but I'm skeptical, and even Veeck was employing all kinds of small-market craziness to attract fans while he owned the Browns).

Adjusting it to payroll is probably the best that can be done to salvage the situation, frankly. I will say that IRL midmarket cities that have teams winning 100 games often act as large market cities while that's happening and ideally the game should figure out how to reflect that when importing seasons. The Reds in the mid-70s are a fantastic example of that, as are the Mariners in the early 2000s, the Atlanta Braves at least in the beginning and middle portions of their long, long dynasty from the early 90s to mid 2000s, and even the Marlins drew fans when they won their World Series.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Market sizes in OOTP are initially set based on the team payroll when you start a league. The game wants to set the market size high enough so the team can afford to pay its players. The size of the actual market does not matter a bit. If you want it to, then you have to have an initial draft with set budgets and base those budgets on population or manually set them yourself.

We've been talking about this for so long, maybe it should just be called something else. "Payroll Capacity"?



It is very useful in the initial drafts though, especially if you use the auto-adjust for city size first. I don't know if it was you or someone else that walked me through that once upon a time, but I'm still thankful to that kind soul.

[Rain King]

While it is a large part of it, market size isn't the only thing that affects Payroll ability. Payroll is just the way the game sets the initial market size so that it has somewhere to start. That number then, going forward, contributes to the Media Contract(s) but doesn't control the budget/payroll on its' own.

[Boomcoach]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Market sizes in OOTP are initially set based on the team payroll when you start a league. The game wants to set the market size high enough so the team can afford to pay its players. The size of the actual market does not matter a bit. If you want it to, then you have to have an initial draft with set budgets and base those budgets on population or manually set them yourself.

That is very interesting to hear. That answers a question I asked in another thread. I want to create a post-strike alt universe where the strike broke MLB. I plan to combine the MLB and AAA teams into 4 14 team leagues, release the players into a draft pool and do a draft. If I am understanding you correctly, that will reset the market sizes to better balance the AAA teams with the MLB ones.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Boomcoach

That is very interesting to hear. That answers a question I asked in another thread. I want to create a post-strike alt universe where the strike broke MLB. I plan to combine the MLB and AAA teams into 4 14 team leagues, release the players into a draft pool and do a draft. If I am understanding you correctly, that will reset the market sizes to better balance the AAA teams with the MLB ones.

Not quite. What I am saying is that the market sizes are set when the league is created after an inaugural draft. What you are suggesting sounds like a free agent draft. The market sizes will already be set by that point.