Death of the Theme Team?

[Ty Cobb]

We're all theme teams now, except the whales. You know...small market low budget theme.

Go ahead...slap me for the snark...I deserve it...

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by mayday10

is it the death of the theme team, or does it make a theme team more necessary?

The former.

If you were very completionist of getting all the historical cards of one of the five franchises, you already have one nifty card, and the chances are 80% that that's all you'll ever get.

In any other case ... if you have a "1970s switch hitters with speed" team that uses players from 13 different MLB franchises, you didn't get crap, and you won't get crap going forward either.

The top-of-the-mountain reward can be a Robo-Ruth with 200 contact and 300 power for all I care. There's only ever going to be ten or so in the game, because you'll need *every single* iron, bronze, and silver historical card in the entire game to get it, and most of the golds, and a pile of the diamonds. It will cost *thousands* of dollars.

Not worth even faking an effort.

[HRBaker]

Just out of interest, lets post some examples. Here is one of my 3 teams; Live cards only - F2P;


Team currently in Bronze League

OVL Total = 2405 (1 Perfect, 17 Diamond, 8 Gold) Avg OVL = 92.5

In 18th season; 1375 wins - 1466 losses
Current season; 38-48 (due to be relegated back to Iron)
Current PPs = 6709

Level Appearances;
...1 Rookie
...1 Stone
...2 Iron
...13 Bronze
...1 Silver


Potential = 0


The team barely earns enough to replace a player every 3-4 weeks with the current prices in the AH. The most likely thing to do the rest of the year is dump the PP into buying packs in the hope to strike something that can refinance the team.


My other two team are pretty much in the same boat.



I'm sure there are hundreds/thousands of similar stories out there where the AH prices have gotten so high there's little to do at this point.


And I'm also sure there will be someone out there to try and claim I'm just not very good at what I do, which is partially true since I don't spend 24 hours a day playing this game... but the bottom line is Perfect Team is only fun for a few months as a F2P team, and then it becomes second fiddle to the many other games I have.


So... why do I keep posting my misery? Because I think the Devs need to keep the AH affordable - not make it into a Stock market that only the rich can afford. In PT20 a 2405 OVL team would not only be doing better, there would still be room for improvement.

[Marleigh]

I don't know whether Live cards are even worse than last year or because of lack of upgrades, but last year some live cards were a viable option all of the way to diamond, now there are none that are worthwhile using above silver.

Examples of Live cards I used in Perfect last year, Lemahieu, Scherzer, various relievers, Soroka, Realmuto (I also had an all live team that made it to diamond). this year they are relatively becoming worse as the historical cards power creep upwards, so the most common and cheapest perfect/diamonds/golds are pretty much only good for discards or some the live missions, that creates a hug imbalance imo

[Mizzery]

The interesting thing to watch is what will happen when all of the FOTF missions and cards are released.

Option A: since every Live and non-Live card (other than SE) is part of at least one mission, is there a deflation across the board in prices since there will no longer be a price distinction between cards that have missions vs. those that don't?

Option B: The desire to complete the FOTF missions and their SE Reward cards means all prices stay inflated through the entire season, and do not fall until the launch of PT 22 when some players will move on and the AH softens.

If it is Option B, that is a massive and fundamental change to the game, since the opportunity to earn points will be unchanged, while the cost to improve your teams has dramatically increased. Seems like it would be a real tipping point between the players who are FTP PT and support the overall game with annual license purchases, vs. those that want to inject supplemental cash into making themselves more competitive in PT.

The question then for FTP teams, themed or not, will be whether there is enough engagement and satisfaction in managing a team that migrates to a mid-level tier and then stays there.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Just out of interest, lets post some examples. Here is one of my 3 teams; Live cards only - F2P;


Team currently in Bronze League

OVL Total = 2405 (1 Perfect, 17 Diamond, 8 Gold) Avg OVL = 92.5

In 18th season; 1375 wins - 1466 losses
Current season; 38-48 (due to be relegated back to Iron)
Current PPs = 6709

Level Appearances;
...1 Rookie
...1 Stone
...2 Iron
...13 Bronze
...1 Silver


Potential = 0


The team barely earns enough to replace a player every 3-4 weeks with the current prices in the AH. The most likely thing to do the rest of the year is dump the PP into buying packs in the hope to strike something that can refinance the team.


My other two team are pretty much in the same boat.



I'm sure there are hundreds/thousands of similar stories out there where the AH prices have gotten so high there's little to do at this point.


And I'm also sure there will be someone out there to try and claim I'm just not very good at what I do, which is partially true since I don't spend 24 hours a day playing this game... but the bottom line is Perfect Team is only fun for a few months as a F2P team, and then it becomes second fiddle to the many other games I have.


So... why do I keep posting my misery? Because I think the Devs need to keep the AH affordable - not make it into a Stock market that only the rich can afford. In PT20 a 2405 OVL team would not only be doing better, there would still be room for improvement.

here's my main team: Waffletown Syrups (limited to players 1945 and earlier, with the one exception of Yogi Berra-1954)... goal right now is to go as 19th century as possible and see what they can do as a group (though the super old time cards tend to be super pricey as well).... current average year for 26 man roster=1903

OVL total = 2387 (2 perfects / 17 diamonds / 7 gold)... avg-91.8

in 17th season: 1404-1280 (.523)
current season in Silver league: 51-40 (2nd in division / holds top W.C. spot)
current PP = 31811

Level appearances:
-Rookie: 3 (1 playoff appearance)
-Stone: 1 (1 playoff appearance)
-Iron: 1 (won Iron World Series)
-Bronze: 2 (1 playoff appearance; 110 wins best so far for the club)
-Silver: 9 (4 playoff appearances)
-Gold: 1 (106 losses, worst team in the league, relegated back to Silver)

potential.... ? I guess that begs the question, what do I expect to get out of the game.... while my similarly themed club in v20 made it to Perfect tier and won a title there, that was a different setup... If I can manage to get this group to the Diamond tier this version, that would be a huge win in my book, but not a deal breaker on enjoying the journey.

I think the one thing that makes this version less interesting to me is the homogeneous nature of all the teams thanks to the Live-mission SE rewards (hey look! I'm facing Maddux/Johnson/Carlton, followed by Johnson/Carlton/Blyleven, followed by Carlton/Maddux/Johnson; etc... and their batters Ichiro/Bagwell/Cano/Tulo/etc)... but other than that, I'm still logging in daily and enjoying the game.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Mizzery

The interesting thing to watch is what will happen when all of the FOTF missions and cards are released.

Option A: since every Live and non-Live card (other than SE) is part of at least one mission, is there a deflation across the board in prices since there will no longer be a price distinction between cards that have missions vs. those that don't?

Option B: The desire to complete the FOTF missions and their SE Reward cards means all prices stay inflated through the entire season, and do not fall until the launch of PT 22 when some players will move on and the AH softens.

If it is Option B, that is a massive and fundamental change to the game, since the opportunity to earn points will be unchanged, while the cost to improve your teams has dramatically increased. Seems like it would be a real tipping point between the players who are FTP PT and support the overall game with annual license purchases, vs. those that want to inject supplemental cash into making themselves more competitive in PT.

The question then for FTP teams, themed or not, will be whether there is enough engagement and satisfaction in managing a team that migrates to a mid-level tier and then stays there.

It will be option B because demand will continue to outpace supply as long as people are still playing. It will take a long time for ftp players to get anywhere close to finishing all of the missions, but there will be a desire to get that super-card at the end. The supply will never reach a point where there is a price war among sellers of historical diamonds. As people stop playing, they stop opening packs. But whoever is still playing will want the cards that are in decreasing supply. History tells us that cards in last year's version increase in price (because of declining supply) when the new version is released, so no reason that it would change then either.

[smales72]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

OVL Total = 2405 (1 Perfect, 17 Diamond, 8 Gold) Avg OVL = 92.5

Hey quick question...when you say OVL Total is that just adding up your active roster card values ie 75+95+92 ect. ? If so are there benchmarks you've come across?

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by smales72

Hey quick question...when you say OVL Total is that just adding up your active roster card values ie 75+95+92 ect. ? If so are there benchmarks you've come across?

Simple answer, no. A 2405 is not the same as another 2405, which is the reason most players here dislike the OVR rating. It gives you a rough idea of where you are, but doesn't fit well for analysis.


A better way to evaluate true value would be to have an equation that not only weighs all the individual ratings of pitchers and batters but can compare lineups to pitching staffs. All of that is possible, but OOTP doesn't give you an easy way to export your team's specifics so you could dump all that stuff into a spreadsheet and play with it.


I'm sure they would say OVR is their result of that kind of analysis, but we're looking at that number blind, not knowing the details behind it.

[benderguy1]

I'm in the same boat as Westheim ---

I only started building my F2P Mets theme team about four weeks ago. It was my poor choice to start the week that additional licenses and PP were on sale. It made for an entry pool week full of whales. Teams in the entry pool already playing the full gamut of the SE Live Mission cards just pounding new teams (and probably some brand new players) into submission. I think one of the Billy Williams' had around 300 RBI for the week. Luckily, since my goal was a theme team, I took the good historical gold card from my starter packs, flipped it, and started building my Mets team. I passed up on a majority of the Iron cards and started buying a few of the Bronze, Silver and Gold Mets that I knew could keep me competitive. I saved my PP achievement earnings and completed the Piazza mission towards the end of the week.

Over the first couple of weeks in Rookie and Stone, I had a really good, not great team. It allowed me to add a few more of the Gold Mets cards as I built up towards getting some of the low Diamonds. I was in it for the long game, figuring that even if I was able to get to the biggest of the Mets Diamond cards (Seaver, Koosman) that this would likely be a team that would have to get lucky to make it to Gold.

With the start-up of FOTF a couple of weeks ago, the dream of Gold has ended. I'm still in Stone, but could possibly move up to Iron, but without being able to add even some of the low Diamonds, it's going to be nearly impossible to even get to Bronze. I set Gold as "my" Perfect League for this team, but that dream is done. The low Mets diamond cards going for 8-10K a couple of weeks ago (Cleon Jones, David Wright, Tommie Agee etc) are now minimum 40-50K cards and sometimes even more when there's only one or two posted.

So yeah, FOTF killed my Theme Team plans. I'm not interested in doing all of the live missions again, just to get the SE reward cards to flip. And I definitely wouldn't insert them into the lineup of my Mets team (the team went into Rookie with a roster made up of entirely Mets -- and it will stay that way, even if it means 30 seasons in Stone).

I only wish that the Mets weren't one of the first FOTF missions to launch, I might have been able to grab a Diamond or two.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Kris has stated that franchises will be together, so the "face of the franchise" for the Nationals will include Expos players. Whether the reward is an Expo or a National hasn't been announced, but Kris and I are both Expos fans, so there's a good chance of that being an Expo

Combining Expos with Nats? Sacrilege!

[Morug]

lol the new Iron Orlando Cabrera card for 5K PP?

[benderguy1]

Originally Posted by Morug

lol the new Iron Orlando Cabrera card for 5K PP?

The AH is out of control. He has a real nice Avoid Ks, but when Iron cards start getting listed for 5K the inmates have taken over the asylum.

[Torgonius]

I've got an extra one I pulled. I'll give it to you for the friends & family discount price of 4,999 pp.

[ignats75]

Yeah, my two theme teams have stagnated. The Buckeyes are an Indians themed team. Its bouncing between Silver and Bronze, but mostly hovers around Bronze. I make the playoffs in Bronze almost every year, but this is only the second time I've been promoted to Silver. And like the last time, winning at a sub .400 rate is guaranteeing that this team will be back in Bronze in season 2038. True to life, the Indians themed team can make the playoffs, but has yet to win a world series. LOL. (Caveat: My one non Indian still on the team is a locked 100 Verlander from prior to theming up-I use him due to being piqued that I can't sell him) My Rotation is the aforementioned Verlander along with 96 Feller, 91 Lee (If you played for the Indians, you qualify for my team), 91 Nagy and 86 Flounder...err Greg Swindell. I have a locked 92 Bieber that seems to suck 3 out of every 4 seasons so he stays in reserves. I'd QS him, excepted for that locked thing. I also have a 93 Sam McDowell that with a 44 control seems to struggle in Silver. (He's my favorite all time Indian) I have an all gold bullpen that is very inconsistent.

I barely look at my themed teams anymore. I barely look at my FTP team either. I tend to mess with Tournaments the most but don't follow the themes there. My FTP enters either Bronze or Gold. My Indian team enters silver and my Black Bears team enters Iron. I have more success there except the rewards have been bleak because lately my ripping record has been abysmal.

The Indians team has stagnated unless I get lucky with a pack reward from a tourney and I get a historical Diamond or Perfect that I can convert into a crapload of PPs. Except then, who would I go after; a 98 Boudreau for 90,000? I already have a 100 Lindor. Maybe a 97 Joss or a 96 Coveleski. But a 100 Lajoie at 180,000 PPs or a 100 Shoeless Joe at 100,000 are about my only upgrades. a 94 PEAK ALbert Belle is a minor upgrade from a 90 Hardware Hero Albert Belle. So its tourneys only for me with the Buckeyes. Next year, I'm going to start earlier with themes, but they'll be different themes.

[BMW]

I enjoy only theme teams now. I have zero aspirations of making it to Diamond or Perfect, but that's just not the goal. To me it's a sandbox to see what happens with all these different methods.

One team, I just got all the highest Stuff pitchers that I could. Every time I got PP, I put it into higher Stuff pitchers. Now that I've nearly maxxed it out (I'm not going to save up 200K for a slightly better pitcher), I decided to keep with a speed theme and I'm getting all the best basestealers. So the team has an obscene amount of strikeouts and stolen bases.

Another team is focused around the highest contact hitters I can gather. Now that they're nearly maxxed out, I'm getting some pitchers. Don't really have a theme there that fits with contact guys, so I've collected some 1980s guys.

My third team is getting the best defensive guys I can get. I think everyone has 100+ now and those players are starting to be replaced with 100+ guys who can hit a little. I even went trying to get the best fielding pitchers, although I've switched a little to try to get the best put-the-ball-in-play guys (low stuff, high control).

[smales72]

Inspired by opening day I'm converting one of my teams to be the Live 2020 Red Sox...as best I can depending what's out there to mirror the MLB roster. Let's so how this horrid pitching staff fares in PT Iron.

[smales72]

Originally Posted by smales72

Inspired by opening day I'm converting one of my teams to be the Live 2020 Red Sox...as best I can depending what's out there to mirror the MLB roster. Let's so how this horrid pitching staff fares in PT Iron.

Well that's no fun. Can't even do this for a team headed to Stone just for fun. Says doesn't pass the tanking test...please activate your better cards.

Thanks for nothing say the 2020 Live Red Sox.

At this point after ripping countless useless packs of all stiffs is there a way I can go 0-60? or 0-162? I tried to have fun and now I'm probably going to quick sell everyone, keep the money and go all 40 ranked cards. Tell me to put better cards in...I can't.

[Lemandria]

No, but you can sim the live Sox for free, including live stats pdates.

[smales72]

Originally Posted by Lemandria

No, but you can sim the live Sox for free, including live stats pdates.

True but not as fun as taking it to the Stone League and flexing some marginal live team muscle.

Am impressed though. The PT rules have no problem with the batters but it's the horrid pitching that sounds the alarm. Pretty realistic actually when you look at the roster. MLB shouldn't allow them to field such an awful staff.