HX Replay E Banks 1b 70 ss 11?

[fredbeene]

Hi -
I started hx replay 1954 with option of FIELDING for career.

Why would Ernie Banks be imported as:
1b 70
SS 11
??

If i do 3 years fielding import setttings he is SS 56

[fredbeene]

So I don't understand why this happens.
In editor Banks has 200 experience at first and ss.
But now i can't play him in rookie season at ss because he is only an 11.
I would like to understand why this happened and how or if i should correct it?
I don't want to manually adjust tons of players but this was just 1 random player i checked.

[BIG17EASY]

Banks played 134 more games in his career at first base than he did at shortstop. I don't know how OOTP creates its fielding ratings for historical players that far back, but my guess is whatever data they used supports him being a better defensive first baseman than shortstop. Since you chose career for fielding ratings, that's the reason you're seeing this.

Using the three-year basis, he played shortstop from 1953 through 1961, so that's why you'll get a higher rating for shortstop using that option.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, that has to be a glitch. Banks played exclusively at SS in 1954.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Yeah, that has to be a glitch. Banks played exclusively at SS in 1954.

But OP says he chose the option to use career fielding to create fielding ratings. When he changed it to 3-year ratings, he got a mid-50s rating at SS for 1954. So the game appears to be working as intended.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

But OP says he chose the option to use career fielding to create fielding ratings. When he changed it to 3-year ratings, he got a mid-50s rating at SS for 1954. So the game appears to be working as intended.

Ah, I missed that. Yeah, that's going to be the issue: on a career basis, Banks was mostly a 1B who played a little SS.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Ah, I missed that. Yeah, that's going to be the issue: on a career basis, Banks was mostly a 1B who played a little SS.

Even anyone else can fire up the 54 season:
Fielding:
3 year
Career

Maybe you can see the issue.
It should be somewhat equal if you chose career.

That changes Banks to be a medicore first baseman.

I simmed banks to played SS exclusively for 2 years and although in editor he already has an 200 max exp at SS, i could only get his rating to move from 11 to 13


I really don't think that is the intention of using Fielding - Career.


FYI in the simulation cubs traded banks to washington for some stiff catcher

Also notice that there are alot of 100 fielding ratings for minors or players who played little.....not sure that should be happening....almost every team has 1 or more 100 catchers

[Hoiles]

I noticed that too. Another one is Biggio importing as a C and playing as a catcher for 20 seasons. I think some quirks are inevitable when you try to automatically generate ratings for 20000+ players. I just prefer playing with recalc and redoing fielding ratings every 3 years.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Hoiles

I noticed that too. Another one is Biggio importing as a C and playing as a catcher for 20 seasons. I think some quirks are inevitable when you try to automatically generate ratings for 20000+ players. I just prefer playing with recalc and redoing fielding ratings every 3 years.

Thank you -
When you do recalc, does it look at actual fielding records one the player is imported (assume playing multiple seasons)

So banks would import as a SS. Would he start getting 1b rating later in his career even if the game never played him?

Or say Rick Manning (cleveland indians CF 70s) He started minor as a SS. The game would import him a drafted SS. Would he actualy become a CF when he came into the majors because of real life fielding stats, or only by chance that AI in minors moved him there?

PS - i don't think there should be quirks...ernie banks is pretty strait forward, SS to 1b.........
those are bugs.....bugs should be worked out over 21 years

Randomness is different....if there is a setting to randomly pick positions than that would be expected.

My favorite is AI EVERY TIME (no randomness) assign rickety kneed Rico Carty in 1975 replay at age 35 as great C who had not played C since 18 years old for a handful of games

[68pirate]

I would like to see several more options for historical games. For example, allowing for offense to recalc, while defense remains static. Or allowing offense to recalc, while defense is affected by the development engine. Or allowing defensive ratings to be created based off of each player's best individual season at a position. In that scenario, a guy like Banks would be both a capable SS and 1B.

[Hoiles]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Thank you -
When you do recalc, does it look at actual fielding records one the player is imported (assume playing multiple seasons)

So banks would import as a SS. Would he start getting 1b rating later in his career even if the game never played him?

Or say Rick Manning (cleveland indians CF 70s) He started minor as a SS. The game would import him a drafted SS. Would he actualy become a CF when he came into the majors because of real life fielding stats, or only by chance that AI in minors moved him there?

PS - i don't think there should be quirks...ernie banks is pretty strait forward, SS to 1b.........
those are bugs.....bugs should be worked out over 21 years

Randomness is different....if there is a setting to randomly pick positions than that would be expected.

My favorite is AI EVERY TIME (no randomness) assign rickety kneed Rico Carty in 1975 replay at age 35 as great C who had not played C since 18 years old for a handful of games

With recalc and three-year imports, the players update every season according to the positions they played IRL. So Biggio would start out as a C, then become a 2B, then an OF; or A-Rod starts out as a SS then becomes a 3B. You do need to turn recalc on, or else you get weird things based on rookie seasons. Banks stays an SS for his entire career, but Biggio stays a C, Gary Carter an OF, Dale Murphy is a C for their entire career.

The downside is that careers become a bit more predictable and it makes the game a bit easier, but you just juggle the pros and cons.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Thank you -
When you do recalc, does it look at actual fielding records one the player is imported (assume playing multiple seasons)

So banks would import as a SS. Would he start getting 1b rating later in his career even if the game never played him?

Yes

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Hoiles

With recalc and three-year imports, the players update every season according to the positions they played IRL. So Biggio would start out as a C, then become a 2B, then an OF; or A-Rod starts out as a SS then becomes a 3B. You do need to turn recalc on, or else you get weird things based on rookie seasons. Banks stays an SS for his entire career, but Biggio stays a C, Gary Carter an OF, Dale Murphy is a C for their entire career.

The downside is that careers become a bit more predictable and it makes the game a bit easier, but you just juggle the pros and cons.

Thank you! Even though i have read the manual many times...it never clicked like you just explained it.

I still don't understand how you can develop a position if you use RECALC since it is using REAL LIFE stats. Won't it overwrite any attempts to learn a new position??
An honestly it still doesn't make sense why Banks has an 11 SS rating doing stats based on career.

[Hoiles]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Thank you! Even though i have read the manual many times...it never clicked like you just explained it.

I still don't understand how you can develop a position if you use RECALC since it is using REAL LIFE stats. Won't it overwrite any attempts to learn a new position??
An honestly it still doesn't make sense why Banks has an 11 SS rating doing stats based on career.

It probably does overwrite things, but I can't say for sure because I never tried it in a historical league.

The could tweak the formula so that it makes Banks a better SS, but with 20000 players you could get some other weird results where someone gets set as an SS even though they played it for only a small fraction of their career.

Revising historical fielding ratings could be something worth mentioning in the "Suggestions for future versions subforums". The suggestions from 68pirate are a great starting point. Another idea would be to ignore 35+ years when generating fielding ratings, as they would likely be 1B/DH's by that point.

[TBird]

I'm in the middle of a historical replay that I started in 1953. Banks up until 1962 was so extraordinary at SS that he could probably have played the entire left side of the infield by himself. However, even though I'm using the OOTP development engine he suddenly tanked as a SS and became a decent 1B. It's one of the quirky things I've noticed in the game with sudden/dramatic rating changes that frequently occur at the point in actual history when players changed positions.

[Hoiles]

It looks like you have both recalc on along with development, or else he would have stayed an SS, or at least the change would have been more gradual. So players will mostly follow their real-life performance, with a bit of randomness thrown in.

[TBird]

Originally Posted by Hoiles

It looks like you have both recalc on along with development, or else he would have stayed an SS, or at least the change would have been more gradual. So players will mostly follow their real-life performance, with a bit of randomness thrown in.

I guess I learn something new everyday with this game. The "disable development" box is unchecked, and the "recalc" box is checked. Makes sense; maybe that's why starters become relievers and vice-versa, players like Banks suddenly switch positions, and maybe why some players see sudden drastic drops or upswings in ratings. Thanks for the tip.