For the love of God....fix 3D PbP

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

So let me admit that even though I'm still relatively new to this game (started with 18), I am probably one of those die-hard OOTP supporters that people like to refer to as fan-boys. (But really, I'm 55 years old and I haven't been any kind of boy in a very long time and barely even know what the term is supposed to connote.) I freaking love this game, quirks and all.

Anyway, when I read about OOTP needing to cut dead weight like, (I almost can't even type this, I'm trembling so at the thought), fictional play- even though I know it ain't gonna happen- I nearly start to hyperventilate.
C'mon, man, you trying to give an old guy a heart attack?

As a 2D Classic random debut/historical player, I know I'm dead weight. Heck, I don't even manage anymore, I just watch. I have less than zero interest in being a GM. I've tried and found it too much like work: So, I know exactly how you feel. I've figured for a long time that eventually OOTP would leave me in the dust. In a way that did happen with OOTP17 and 18. Both of those versions were headache inducing to say the least when trying to use 2D Classic. Back then it was all blamed on my computer and my now famously outdated video cards. But guess what? Magically those outdated video cards caught their second lease on life with the release of OOTP19 and haven't suffered a bit with 20 and now 21. It's a festivus miracle.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's *extremely* unkind to FM. FM has an incredibly deep strategy end to it and there are also a crap ton of customization options. No, there's no historical, because a historical soccer game would be a massive endeavor unto itself, but you can add and remove all sorts of leagues and there are even mods that allow you to manage all the way down into the deep amateur leagues in the promotion/relegation system (I watched a guy's YT this year of him starting with a team in I think it was the 11th level and scratch his way all the way to the top).

It's absolutely not OOTP because OOTP has a different target and is about a completely different sport.

It's a game that has completely lost focus and has become a social media simulator, so yeah, totally different sport indeed.

Of course it has a deep strategy and you can sink many hours in fiddling with your team. But it is the equivalent of OOTP offering only the 2020 MLB live start, and no options whatsoever to set up your league(s) with team badges, fictional players, custom leagues etc. unless you're willing to spend dozens and hundreds of hours in the weeds first.

Which leads to me being entirely content with starting no more than one game per league that even interests me. Then it's "yeah. I've seen it. I'm good." Haven't played the game in almost a year because it becomes stale so fast.

There *was* a historical soccer manager (probably only with the UK) on Steam, but for the life of me I can't remember the name or find it again...

[jimmysthebestcop]

.

[low]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Oh, now I understand. May I point you to the Paradox store? There you can have your games that release stripped down to the bare bones before fleecing you for hundreds of bucks.

Dear OOTPD. The game is fine as it is. Before you take that post above from this thread, please take nothing from this thread.

Regards.

A utimately satisfied (though he'd like to win more often) customer.

Paradox is the absolute worst.

[David Watts]

I'm an old man, what qualifies one as a gamer? I know if you have to ask....

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's *extremely* unkind to FM. FM has an incredibly deep strategy end to it and there are also a crap ton of customization options. No, there's no historical, because a historical soccer game would be a massive endeavor unto itself, but you can add and remove all sorts of leagues and there are even mods that allow you to manage all the way down into the deep amateur leagues in the promotion/relegation system (I watched a guy's YT this year of him starting with a team in I think it was the 11th level and scratch his way all the way to the top).

It's absolutely not OOTP because OOTP has a different target and is about a completely different sport.

Yes, exactly and yet it gets brought up again and again (not saying by you) as the gold standard and why can't OOTP do that? (pick whatever feature you like)
Or more likely it's insisted OOTP needs feature X or it's going out of business starting with "me" not purchasing next year's game.

So how come, with their huge programming team we shouldn't insist on historical play? They are racking in the bucks with all of those sales. Moving a few coders to the new "historical team" should be easy. Come on FM take a little of that time it takes to code press conferences (that many complained were stale and a waste of time when I was playing) and use it for historical.

Import to the next version? No, never! But wait you have this huge team working on the game. You just don't care about the users.

FM gets requests\demands every year same as OOTP gets their's. Their answer is a simple "no" we're not doing that, too hard (I take them at their word and have no problem with it). They also get the same type of "this isn't fixed yet?", "match engine is unrealistic", "good lord, please fix corners!!!", "too easy to take a team to the top", "too hard to take a team to the top", etc. etc. Some deserved, some not. Same as OOTP
It's not all gravy at SI It is one thing that FM and OOTP do have in common though, pretty much same as any sports game I've played since the internet came to be

I do love Fm though I haven't played since v14, the reason is just not enough time. I did not quit buying the game because they didn't fix "my" issue(s). In fact I plan on picking it up again in retirement when time won't be as much an issue. I'm quite excited to see the improvements it will have made over the 6 or 7 years I went without.

[Syd Thrift]

Paradox is the absolute worst.

That's also not *really* their model. It's more "we'll release a game once and then instead of coming out with sequels we'll just keep adding and adding onto the game". It's at the point to where it might actually not be possible to ramp up into learning EU4 at this point.

When they switch to new versions, as they're doing with Crusader Kings, it's generally because they've reached the edges of the ability of the game engine to handle things. And yeah, there's going to be a bunch of stuff that's not in there anymore. There will probably be a bunch of stuff that never gets back into the game compared to CK2 (I'd be surprised if they let you rule a duck empire for example). It's not because they *know* they're going to make people pay for it down the line with DLC so much as it's that they're trying to release a game within some kind of timeline instead of it sitting in development hell. Also, part of the Paradox cycle is that they introduce something, it's way unbalanced, and the user base helps them balance it. You really, really need a stable base game in order to do that.

I'm not going to say that the model is the way for OOTP to do things, or that it doesn't have severe issues of its own (like I said, forget about the money; if you're new to the EU franchise, the only way you're going to be able to "get" this game, like, at all is to watch several hundred hours of Let's Play videos, and even then I don't know that you'll be able to play it). But it's not *exactly* a straight up cash grab. It's more of a means of avoiding coming out with a whole new version of the game every couple years.

[Giants44]

Originally Posted by too_on_too_out

Sure, it's easy to get misty eyed. But how about coughing up some coin? How about if they went subscription-based, so you're paying $100 year, every year?

considering I buy the game for myself, my sons and some friends - I have happily spent over 100 every year for as long as I can remember.

I play for 100s if not 1000s of hours so it is pennies per hour - best money I spend all year

[MizzouRah]

Played Game 7 of the 2026 World Series with animations on slightly fast. Wow.. a 100 mph fastball looks like just that.

Won 2-1 and our first World Series!

[Giants44]

I dont think I even knew there was a setting for animation speed before this thread and I too concur "slightly faster" makes for a much smoother game

[Giants44]

quick old guy story in this topic since someone mentioned how much expectations play a part in all of this

So in the early 80s - I dont remember the exact game but I am 90% sure it was the first PC APBA - no graphics obviously and pre hard drive era so you would load the game off the A drive 5 1/4 disk and it would write the results to the B drive 5 1/4 (that is if you were cool enough to have two drives, but I digress)

so when we played the code for "hit" was obviously not stored in the very limited RAM and had to be read from the disk. So as you played you would know if your batter was out or not about 5 seconds before it displayed on screen because if he got it hit the very loud disk drive would spin and read. still fun to play, still cool that the game actually complied our stats. but the simulation was not exactly suspenseful other then waiting for the disk to spin. so for those few of us on here who come from that era OOTP is beyond our wildest expectations.

oh crap, wait when did I become "back in my day..." guy damnit

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

So let me admit that even though I'm still relatively new to this game (started with 18), I am probably one of those die-hard OOTP supporters that people like to refer to as fan-boys. (But really, I'm 55 years old and I haven't been any kind of boy in a very long time and barely even know what the term is supposed to connote.) I freaking love this game, quirks and all.

Anyway, when I read about OOTP needing to cut dead weight like, (I almost can't even type this, I'm trembling so at the thought), fictional play- even though I know it ain't gonna happen- I nearly start to hyperventilate.
C'mon, man, you trying to give an old guy a heart attack?

Don't worry. This will never happen.

Back when we completely recoded OOTP for the 2006 release we had to cut a few minor features because there was not enough time. And people killed us for that. That taught me a lesson: Never, ever kill features. There will always be people who will be upset.

[sdw1000]

Does this include every ballpark that's already created? Deadball up to present? Now ya got me buying next years! lol

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yup, and if PT would not have happened, things like the Ballpark Construction Kit would have never been possible, or the fact that we are hiring a 3D artist to redo all 3D ballparks for OOTP 22. Or a full-time support position, or a full-time marketing position, or three more full-time developers.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Does this include every ballpark that's already created? Deadball up to present? Now ya got me buying next years! lol

No, that would be way too much work. I am talking about the current 30 MLB parks.

[sdw1000]

Well if you're gonna play out 3-D, then you are gonna care about pants!! It's all aesthetics but the point it is for it to look streamlined, not half assed with a Yankee uni on top and gray pants on the bottom for example.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

This
I'm shocked so many people care about pants, but, to each our own

[sdw1000]

Ah..ok. Sounds good. More detailed I hope.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, that would be way too much work. I am talking about the current 30 MLB parks.

[sdw1000]

I've tried to get into Paradox games, but just can't. Too much detail I guess. Bought Imperator Rome but I rarely play it even though they've upgraded and patched it. When I am not baseball simming, I end up going back to Total War: Rome or Field of Glory 2. Sorry for the non-OOTP response. lol

Originally Posted by Westheim

Oh, now I understand. May I point you to the Paradox store? There you can have your games that release stripped down to the bare bones before fleecing you for hundreds of bucks.

Dear OOTPD. The game is fine as it is. Before you take that post above from this thread, please take nothing from this thread.

Regards.

A utimately satisfied (though he'd like to win more often) customer.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Well if you're gonna play out 3-D, then you are gonna care about pants!! It's all aesthetics but the point it is for it to look streamlined, not half assed with a Yankee uni on top and gray pants on the bottom for example.

Yeah, all this aesthetics fluff! Players should play without pants entirely, in OOTP *and* real life...!

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Giants44

I dont think I even knew there was a setting for animation speed before this thread and I too concur "slightly faster" makes for a much smoother game

It does seem to get rid of the skating animation typically from 2B and SS when they go far to catch a popup.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by Tony820

I can't do it anymore. I can't watch 4 infield hits in a row where my SS fields the ball but just doesn't throw it. I can't watch my pitcher field a ball, hold it then do the "slow throw" animation and the runner beats it out. I can't watch sky-high pop ups that take 20 seconds to come down. I can't watch OF's make 7 diving catches in one game. I can't hit "yes" again when my terrific runner wants to round third against a deep ball with a normal fielding arm and get thrown out by 20 feet.

And before we get the standard "Well...actually...3D isn't really what is really happening...." you can save it. We've all heard it before, and it's a lame excuse for a product that isn't working right. I can't believe I have to defend a game actually showing me what is happening in an accurate way.

Please, PLEASE fix this.

Be careful what you say in forum. Crucifixion may be painful. I've learned to keep my thoughts to myself & just play until I don't wanna no more. It's better than any game I've had before