Nube Observations

[ohioscott]

Hello Everyone-
I'm replaying 2017 for my first league as the Dodgers to see if the outcome differs or if I hear the beating of trashcans

Anyways, I was too anxious to get started and didn't do much reading, but here are a few things I have observed through 40 games.

1) Way too many times infielders just hold the ball without a throw to first, especially annoying is with no runners on base and no outs. I know there are infield hits and hard slides breaking up DP's, but the frequency that the fielders hold the ball is excessive IMO. The funniest thing is when a throw comes from LF to the SS just as the runner is getting to third. The SS then holds the ball while the runner round third and scores...huh!

2) Even more annoying is how many diving catches the outfielders make. There has to be 10-12 a game...ugh!

3) Way too many hit by pitch, wild pitch, and passed balls. I have had games with as many as six in some combination.

4) Not enough runners being thrown out advancing for doubles or triples. Same with scoring from second or first. It seems like the only time they get thrown out is when the box pops up and ask if you want to advance.

All in all I love this game and can't wait to learn more about it, but I just wondered if anyone else has seen some of these things happening? Thanks.

[Dave1408]

You'll find some similar posts on this forum all getting the exact same answer. There will always be outliers with so many people playing the game but if you can provide numerical evidence over a good length of time (more than 40 games) where the game differs from real life then i'm sure the developers would listen. Subjective impressions about a 40 game sample just simply is nothing to go off of in the grand scheme of things.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by Dave1408

You'll find some similar posts on this forum all getting the exact same answer. There will always be outliers with so many people playing the game but if you can provide numerical evidence over a good length of time (more than 40 games) where the game differs from real life then i'm sure the developers would listen. Subjective impressions about a 40 game sample just simply is nothing to go off of in the grand scheme of things.

It sounds to me the OP is talking about the 3D representation of the game, which we all know, is far from being close to be remotely in the ballpark of being perfect.


To which the usual answer is to not worry about the 3D and just follow the text because it's what is accurate.


Which is why I'm still playing on good old 2D.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Dave1408

You'll find some similar posts on this forum all getting the exact same answer. There will always be outliers with so many people playing the game but if you can provide numerical evidence over a good length of time (more than 40 games) where the game differs from real life then i'm sure the developers would listen. Subjective impressions about a 40 game sample just simply is nothing to go off of in the grand scheme of things.

OOTP is not a physics based game so the fielder isn't "holding on to the ball" but just playing out the results of the play result that was already generated using the combination of ratings, situation, random number generator etc. Hope that makes sense.

Also it may seem like you have a lot of passed balls etc but I ran a whole season and compared the passed balls to real life results and it was on the money.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by ohioscott

Hello Everyone-

Hi. Welcome.

I'm replaying 2017 for my first league as the Dodgers to see if the outcome differs or if I hear the beating of trashcans

As a Dodger fan I say good luck

1) Way too many times infielders just hold the ball without a throw to first, especially annoying is with no runners on base and no outs. I know there are infield hits and hard slides breaking up DP's, but the frequency that the fielders hold the ball is excessive IMO. The funniest thing is when a throw comes from LF to the SS just as the runner is getting to third. The SS then holds the ball while the runner round third and scores...huh!

Yes
This is annoying
But the best way I've heard it described is that what you see in the 3-D animation is the artistic representation of the play.
So the SS isn't really just standing there with the ball as the runner touches third and runs home, it's just that the animations aren't great. The sim engine much more correctly simulates the advancement of the runners. If you turned off the 3-D animation and just read the play-by-play, you'd not feel anything was amiss

2) Even more annoying is how many diving catches the outfielders make. There has to be 10-12 a game...ugh!

I'd advise you to actually count.
I'll think you'll find that there are far fewer than you think.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Probably done counting

9 games
163 half innings
10 diving catches by outfielders
0 injuries

That doesn't *feel* like too many diving catches to me. Though I have no idea how many diving catches there are in MLB.

3) Way too many hit by pitch, wild pitch, and passed balls. I have had games with as many as six in some combination.

Again, I'd advise you to keep track.

4) Not enough runners being thrown out advancing for doubles or triples. Same with scoring from second or first. It seems like the only time they get thrown out is when the box pops up and ask if you want to advance.

I certainly agree here,
I counted once but I don't remember the numbers and I couldn't find it in a quick search

[jimmysthebestcop]

Yup 3d is completely out of sync. Not sure how anyone actually plays it. I agree it's so annoying.

[pstrickert]

Has anyone noticed the same 3D issues during the Dream Bracket telecasts? I don't recall seeing them when I've watched. Did OOTP "massage" the 3D animations to avoid having them appear on the broadcasts? If so, I wonder what else was "manipulated" (for lack of a better term).

[RchW]

Originally Posted by ohioscott

Hello Everyone-

4) Not enough runners being thrown out advancing for doubles or triples.

All in all I love this game and can't wait to learn more about it, but I just wondered if anyone else has seen some of these things happening? Thanks.

See this post or thread.

Post
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...37#post4560637

Thread
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=307048

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Has anyone noticed the same 3D issues during the Dream Bracket telecasts? I don't recall seeing them when I've watched. Did OOTP "massage" the 3D animations to avoid having them appear on the broadcasts? If so, I wonder what else was "manipulated" (for lack of a better term).

Not sure I didn't watch them. But I only play out a couple dozen games a season plus playoffs and if either team has a lot of offense not via homerun it is extremely easy to spot how out of sync it is.

If there are baserunners and extra base hits the amount of time the game looks out of sync or not smooth or completely wrong is staggering high.

I have no problems with the solo animations or the glitches but the sync, timing, feel, flow of the 3D is completely wrong. When people say they play out entire seasons I have no idea how they can stomach it. It honestly just doesn't look good at all. It looks like something that is in "beta" or early access not 3 years developed.

Again glitches, bugs and animation I can overlook but the timing or when something doesn't look correct I can't tolerate it. I don't care about the text play by play that is the entire point of 3D!!!!!!!

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by ohioscott

Hello Everyone-
I'm replaying 2017 for my first league as the Dodgers to see if the outcome differs or if I hear the beating of trashcans

Anyways, I was too anxious to get started and didn't do much reading, but here are a few things I have observed through 40 games.

1) Way too many times infielders just hold the ball without a throw to first, especially annoying is with no runners on base and no outs. I know there are infield hits and hard slides breaking up DP's, but the frequency that the fielders hold the ball is excessive IMO. The funniest thing is when a throw comes from LF to the SS just as the runner is getting to third. The SS then holds the ball while the runner round third and scores...huh!

2) Even more annoying is how many diving catches the outfielders make. There has to be 10-12 a game...ugh!

3) Way too many hit by pitch, wild pitch, and passed balls. I have had games with as many as six in some combination.

4) Not enough runners being thrown out advancing for doubles or triples. Same with scoring from second or first. It seems like the only time they get thrown out is when the box pops up and ask if you want to advance.

All in all I love this game and can't wait to learn more about it, but I just wondered if anyone else has seen some of these things happening? Thanks.

You may be a nube... only 40 games in... which is a small sample... but you nailed it.
I've been playing it for almost 20 years, which is not a small sample... and you are correct in your assessment.
In spite of these imperfections, you also nailed it... it a great game we all love.

And I might add... please note the third baseman never tags a runner coming from second when that would be the easiest out to make... they almost bump into one another on the animation, yet he still throws to first base... or maybe second base if there is a runner on first.
He doesn't tag third either with runners on first and second for the last out... I think I have seen him tag third and throw to first to complete the double play.

Also don't like it when a fly ball is deep enough to tag at third base and score, but they stay on the bag... happens too often.

And there are too many diving plays by outfielders... I used to complain about too many great plays when I used PBP text only... 5-6 a game... I always keep a detailed scorebook at games I attend... in my years of keeping score at games, there may be 1 or 2 standout plays per game... occasionally 3... I always mark an exceptional play with an * symbol...I always used an asterisk to indicate an exceptional play.

Oh, yeah... the animation is much better in OOTP21... much-improved over OOTP19 and previous versions, but still flawed in many ways... however, I really enjoy playing out the game with the animation... no more clunky, long-winded and rambling PBP text for me anymore.

I'm a big fan of the herky-jerky, out-of-synch and sometimes downright dumb animation now... dumb plays like a hard-hit ball to an infielder... they catch it cleanly and just hold it... scored as an infield hit.

Maybe when I'm 90 years old in 10 years... maybe OOTP31 will have pretty good animation.

[RBI Baseball]

I'm not tracking exactly but in a season and a half I think I've seen one runner thrown out stretching a single into a double (at least, only once since I realized it never happened), and I have seen the following occur twice: Runners on first and second, batter bunts, pitcher fields, throws to the SS covering 3rd for the force and SS throws to first for the double play. I don't know how to search if this ever happens in real MLB, but it seems implausible.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by RBI Baseball

I'm not tracking exactly but in a season and a half I think I've seen one runner thrown out stretching a single into a double (at least, only once since I realized it never happened), and I have seen the following occur twice: Runners on first and second, batter bunts, pitcher fields, throws to the SS covering 3rd for the force and SS throws to first for the double play. I don't know how to search if this ever happens in real MLB, but it seems implausible.

In the last six months since it was pointed out, I've seen a batter thrown out one time trying to stretch a single into a double... and I play out a lot of games... don't think this is accurate, but I have not done a study on this... just intense observational research.

[RBI Baseball]

As for playing with the animation. The animation sucks, but you get used to it. You realize that a ground ball's likelihood of being a double play has nothing to do with how double play-ish the location/speed of it appears on the screen, or that your runner advancing on a bunt can still be forced even if he's standing on second when the ball is picked up, and adjust your expectations accordingly. It's still more fun than reading text. My favourite is when a ball is hit into the RF corner and the fielder jogs slowly after it, indicating triple, until the last moment when the ball comes shot out of a cannon as if by Clemente himself to cut the runner down.
But the cutoff man holding the ball while everyone rounds the bases will piss me off every time forever. Can't get used to that.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Yup 3d is completely out of sync. Not sure how anyone actually plays it. I agree it's so annoying.

There are certainly issues, but it is nowhere near "completely" out of sync. Most of it is fine, but when it glitches, it definitely glitches. The 3D is what tipped the balance for me to get OOTP for the first time last year when 20 launched. Simply watching text scroll by bores me. Opinions, of course, vary.

The instances of infielders appearing to hold on to the ball while runners advance on throws from the outfield is significantly higher than in 20, or even than when 21 first came out. This is not based on 40 games; I play quite a bit.

I had a hilarious one today: The SS cut off the throw, practically standing on third base. The runner from second ran through him, rounded third, and headed home. The batter rounded second and ran through the SS for a stand up triple.

To the OP: As noted by others, the 3D is a representation of what the game (die roll, if you will) decides, but it is not perfect. I am very grateful to have it and find it adds a lot of fun to the game, in spite of some of the silliness that may occur on occasion.

Don't hesitate to report the issues you see. Letting devs know about graphical glitches--with details--will give them a better chance of diagnosing the issue and patching it.

[BusterKing]

Simple solution, bring in "The Show" animations.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Holding onto relay throws and weird tags ups or no tag ups is the game being out of sync with how baseball flows. It doesn't look or feel right at all.

It's almost any extra base hit to outfield with runners on base. The play in 3d will be completely wrong. Either weird running movement. Weird relay throw. Or relay holding onto the ball while a runner goes from 2b to home. Or some thing just as absurd. A hit might look shallow but be deep or vice versa.

I'll give ootpb a pass on the infield but it's like anything to the outfield breaks the 3d engine. It's not the animations it's the engine timing and flow. It's completely unrealistic. Maybe sync was a bad term.

Why would I want to get use to a bad 3d engine when I can just play a different game?

Watch football manager or motorsport manager. The 3d engines are butter smooth. Might be glitches or weird individual animations but it's smooth and it flows. While ootpb looks like some jaggedy mess.

Any gamer who plays ootpb will have big time issues with the 3d engine. It looks like an unfinished product. I'm not trying to be harsh. But trying to offer real honest criticism.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Why would I want to get use to a bad 3d engine when I can just play a different game?

What games you play are your choice

Have you found a game that's perfect?

I haven't
So, for any game I play, I decide whether to accept the imperfections or not

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

What games you play are your choice

Have you found a game that's perfect?

I haven't
So, for any game I play, I decide whether to accept the imperfections or not

I've enjoyed bad games. Some bad games I still might do a run once a year. But I'll be the 1st person to criticize the game.

I know 1 awful game I love is Dead State. Love the game. But it is so bad. So many bugs, glitches, weird engine problems etc.

But I just think since the majority of ootpb players aren't your "gamer" crowd that the game gets a lot of free passes. Especially forum people. Everyone is like I love ootpb I play out every game. But never criticize it.

However I will say this is the 1st year that I've seen some major criticism on the board.

I guess I've gotten to the point where the bad in ootpb out weighs the good for me. Which sucks. But I have no faith in the game making huge steps in the future.

I'm still getting a handful of hours a week in my universe. I'm talking 4 to 6 hours just as a palette cleanser. So I still pop onto the forum to help out newbies and everything.

I guess since I did fall in love with ootp I can't help but criticize it.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

There are certainly issues, but it is nowhere near "completely" out of sync. Most of it is fine, but when it glitches, it definitely glitches. The 3D is what tipped the balance for me to get OOTP for the first time last year when 20 launched. Simply watching text scroll by bores me. Opinions, of course, vary.

The instances of infielders appearing to hold on to the ball while runners advance on throws from the outfield is significantly higher than in 20, or even than when 21 first came out. This is not based on 40 games; I play quite a bit.

I had a hilarious one today: The SS cut off the throw, practically standing on third base. The runner from second ran through him, rounded third, and headed home. The batter rounded second and ran through the SS for a stand up triple.

To the OP: As noted by others, the 3D is a representation of what the game (die roll, if you will) decides, but it is not perfect. I am very grateful to have it and find it adds a lot of fun to the game, in spite of some of the silliness that may occur on occasion.

Don't hesitate to report the issues you see. Letting devs know about graphical glitches--with details--will give them a better chance of diagnosing the issue and patching it.

Good observations and advice.

OOTP has always responded well when you point out errors, at least when I reported errors in PBP and New Stories, which I used to be very involved in... pstrickert would correct every mistake in the PBP and in the New Stories... if he has anything to do with the animation, I'm sure he would take care of it.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I've enjoyed bad games. Some bad games I still might do a run once a year. But I'll be the 1st person to criticize the game.

I know 1 awful game I love is Dead State. Love the game. But it is so bad. So many bugs, glitches, weird engine problems etc.

But I just think since the majority of ootpb players aren't your "gamer" crowd that the game gets a lot of free passes. Especially forum people. Everyone is like I love ootpb I play out every game. But never criticize it.

However I will say this is the 1st year that I've seen some major criticism on the board.

I guess I've gotten to the point where the bad in ootpb out weighs the good for me. Which sucks. But I have no faith in the game making huge steps in the future.

I'm still getting a handful of hours a week in my universe. I'm talking 4 to 6 hours just as a palette cleanser. So I still pop onto the forum to help out newbies and everything.

I guess since I did fall in love with ootp I can't help but criticize it.

Just my opinion from over the years:

I think many of the gamers who love OOTP dearly are among its biggest critics... I'm sure Markus got sick and tired of me and others trying to get him to take care of game issues that were our pet peeves (mine was PBP, News Stories and the Hard Code... Markus would never let the Beta Team have access to the Hard Code, where only he could correct the errors... we could point them out, but it was really hard to get him to fix it)... on the Beta Team we knew Markus couldn't take care of all the issues because of a lack of help and resources and had to concentrate on the issues that would make the game more secure financially... but we still tried relentlessly to get him to fix our pet areas for us.

I'm sure it is still the same way today both on the Forums and on the Beta Team.