Top 10 Most Controversial Athletes

[Boomcoach]

Originally Posted by TGH-Adfabre

The third guy is Australian, I forget his name.

His name was Peter Norman and he was also involved in the protest, for which he became a pariah in Australia.

Actions like these, along with those of Mohammed Ali, Curt Flood, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Jim Brown and others are what I grew up with, so the hysteria about athletes making political statements the last few years has been amusing.

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, TBF both Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Colin Kaepernick lost their jobs because some white guys went full snowflake, so perhaps we aren't out of that era just yet...

[monkeyman576]

Also for women...

Danica Patrick
Michelle Wie
Serena Williams
Billie Jean King
Anna Kournakova
Ronda Rousey

[ukhotstove]

Hansie Cronje
Eric Cantona
Joey Barton
Karim Benzema
Steve Smith
El-Hadji Diouf
Luis Suarez
John Terry
Paolo di Canio
Diego Maradona

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I mean, TBF both Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Colin Kaepernick lost their jobs because some white guys went full snowflake, so perhaps we aren't out of that era just yet...

That's one way to look at it. Certainly a commonly-held opinion in regards to Kaepernick.

TBF, though, Kaepernick opted out of his contract, and - without passing judgement on anyone involved - a case could be made that front offices simply made business decisions that a somewhere-in-the-neighborhood-of-middling QB wasn't worth the hassle of alienating roughly half of their fan base. (I'm surprised more people don't seem to get that this is the most-likely explanation. Probably because it's also the most boring and least-debate-worthy explanation )

As for M A-R, he played a full & effective (compared to his previous numbers) season in the NBA after his anthem-related suspension by the NBA. However, the year after that, his shooting %'s plummeted to atrocious levels, and he left the NBA for a season in Turkey, for more money than he could've received in the NBA (due to his performance decline). Then, after bailing on the Turkish team during the season, and then taking a season off, he returned to the NBA at age 31 for one footnote season (after taking another season & a half off, he then bounced around in foreign leagues for several years)... Much like with Kaepernick, the media-fed/agreeable narrative is that he was blackballed, but, IMO, that is a simplistic view that ignores the game-performance-related components of the situation.

[Syd Thrift]

Kaep in particular was still good enough to start for a few teams and back up for several. Sure, it comes down basically to the Ravens and Jets ownership being top stodgy as opposed to some kind of league wide conspiracy, but I mean who owns the Jets and Ravens again?

As for Abdul-Rauf, that’s a bizarre read of what happened. The Nuggets traded him for the desiccated remains of Sarunas Marciulonis in the midst of that controversy and he was actually still effective in spite of all the controversy. The next season he barely even played - that’s what variance looks like, not “an unacceptably low field goal percentage”.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Kaep in particular was still good enough to start for a few teams and back up for several.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Sure, it comes down basically to the Ravens and Jets ownership being top stodgy...

That's one read. But rather than "top stodgy" could it just be a desire to avoid unnecessary distraction and controversy for an average-ish player?

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

As for Abdul-Rauf, that’s a bizarre read of what happened. The Nuggets traded him for the desiccated remains of Sarunas Marciulonis in the midst of that controversy and he was actually still effective in spite of all the controversy. The next season he barely even played - that’s what variance looks like, not “an unacceptably low field goal percentage”.

The year after the suspension, he went to Sacramento and had a statistically similar season (compared to the year before). Minutes were slightly down but he was still a key player. It was the next year when his shooting tanked, and thus his career began its downward tragectory. I'm certainly open to evidence that his demise was related to some sort of blackball scenario or mistreatment, but I'm just going by what I've found... and that points towards a deterioration of his game, and possibly disinterest on his part.

[Syd Thrift]

Again, he didn’t play much. If he had hit just 5 more 3s and 5 more 2s, his numbers for that season would have been right in line with what he’d done the year before. His minutes were extremely erratic - he’d be entirely out of the rotation for 2 games and then suddenly have to play in 25 minutes. And finally, the guy they actually used instead of him was a 2nd round pick who shot just as poorly and who didn’t start more than 10 games a season again until he was 30.

As for Kaep, saying the Jets “wanted to avoid controversy” is probably the funniest thing I’ve read all day, thanks for that.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Again, he didn’t play much. If he had hit just 5 more 3s and 5 more 2s, his numbers for that season would have been right in line with what he’d done the year before. His minutes were extremely erratic - he’d be entirely out of the rotation for 2 games and then suddenly have to play in 25 minutes. And finally, the guy they actually used instead of him was a 2nd round pick who shot just as poorly and who didn’t start more than 10 games a season again until he was 30.

"If I'd only had more minutes, I'd've played better." That's the excuse your're suggesting? Never heard that one before

At any rate, don't dismiss that he played just fine the year after the suspension and the year before the one we're discussing above. Assuming we can agree on that, then how you do explain that within the context of your apparent blackball suggestion?

I'm simply suggesting that the most-obvious explanation - the one that the statistics bear out - is the more-likely one. Did he possibly get less of a chance - maybe fewer tryouts - due to his unpopular political stances? Possibly. That's certainly a potential consequence of the combination of 1) being a mediocre player, and 2) deciding to take an unpopular & controversial stance. But that would - most-likely - be secondary to the facts that the season after his suspension he performed well, and then after that solid season, he pretty much started sucking. It's a path with which the NBA Register is littered.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

As for Kaep, saying the Jets “wanted to avoid controversy” is probably the funniest thing I’ve read all day, thanks for that.

I suspect that you are confusing the willful choice to avoid controversy with the unintentional decisions that reveal blatant ineptitude (That said, of the few places where Kaep would've been mostly accepted, NY is one of 'em.)

At any rate, I appreciate the fun and respectful debate. Kind of rare both with this particular subject, and these days in general. Cheers

[Syd Thrift]

You’ve seriously never heard people say that erratic minutes hurt performance? Have you even watched basketball?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

You’ve seriously never heard people say that erratic minutes hurt performance? Have you even watched basketball?

Of course (and it happens in other sports, too). It's just that it's a chicken or egg thing:

Player - "My numbers are down because I'm not getting consistent minutes."
Team - "Your playing time is inconsistent because you're not playing well."

So, given that neither his numbers nor his playing time were significantly down for a whole season after the anthem hullabaloo (and that, as I recall, the publicity/controversy had faded), I'm applying Occam's Razor, the most-likely explanation - the one that the statistics and other factors bear out - and not the one that fits a media-driven narrative.

Again, I'm certainly open to facts and so forth that support the less-likely scenarios. But pretty much everything I read about his timeline glosses over the fact that he played well for a whole year after the suspension and initial controversy, and that the issue had pretty much - as I recall - faded. Instead, the lazy journalism simply goes with 1) anthem controversy & suspension, followed by 2) reduced playing time, and 3) eventual blackball. They don't bother to include - let along explain - what happened between #1 and #2.

Finally, it bears repeating that M A'R's career trajectory would not raise a single eyebrow had it not been for the anthem stuff...

At any rate, agree to disagree I suppose. I'm sure I won't convince you. In fact, I'm not convinced that I'm right. I'm simply suggesting that my take is the more-likelier one. But you could be right, too.

[Syd Thrift]

Sure, we'll never know for sure, but if you want to look at a situation where if it happens anywhere, it would happen there, take a look at Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf's second Sacramento season. Also the fact that Abdul-Rauf was replaced by a guy who was arguably even worse than he was is... interesting (I assume Anthony Thompson was a better defender if only because he had to be).

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Sure, we'll never know for sure, but if you want to look at a situation where if it happens anywhere, it would happen there,

Sure. Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

...take a look at Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf's second Sacramento season.

Right. That's the one I was referring to. He sucked that year. Was it due to less playing time, or was the less playing time due to sucking? We don't know, but it happens all the time. And if it was due to less playing time, was that due to his protest of over a year ago (from that point)? Perhaps. Unlikely, I'd say, but possible.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Also the fact that Abdul-Rauf was replaced by a guy who was arguably even worse than he was is... interesting (I assume Anthony Thompson was a better defender if only because he had to be).

Again, if Rauf would've seen a drastic cut in his minutes right after the hubbub & return from suspension, that might indicate some sort of retaliation. But since he played a full season in Sac's rotation, and only after that saw a dropoff in minutes & productivity, it seems questionable to me that retaliation was a factor. Especially considering that the controversy had faded (IOW, over a year later there was less motivation for retaliation).

More likely, the dreadful Kings - at that time in a perpetual rebuild (that would soon, finally, pay off, btw) - were checking out a rookie pointguard over a veteran. Again, being the Sacto Kings (similar to how we mentioned the NY Jets), Occam's Razor suggests that playing Johnson over Rauf was more-likelier to have been a basketball decision that didn't work out, than it was some grand scheme to retaliate against Rauf.

(Johnson, btw, while never anything approaching a star, ended up carving out a nice 13-year NBA career. So it would not have been at all unusual for even a floundering franchise such as Sacramento to see something in him as a rookie... In fact, you can set your watch by half of all NBA franchises seeing "something" in their sleeper second-round pick, only to see that guy usually end up overseas or in another career two years later.)

At any rate, I take some of your points and have said all along that it's possible Rauf was afforded fewer opportunities for tryouts; much less-likely - but not impossible - that he was actually blackballed. But I do not agree that "both Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Colin Kaepernick lost their jobs because some white guys went full snowflake." The facts simply to not support that. I'll concede that perhaps you wrote that quickly and were trying to colorfully make the larger point, rather than being 100% accurate, which is certainly not a crime. I dunno. Only you can say

[bertha]

Floyd Mayweather
Randy Moss
Metta World Peace
Dennis Rodman
Lance Armstrong
Tonya Harding
John McEnroe
Ben Johnson
Sammy Sosa
Antonio Brown

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by bertha

Floyd Mayweather
Randy Moss
Metta World Peace
Dennis Rodman
Lance Armstrong
Tonya Harding
John McEnroe
Ben Johnson
Sammy Sosa
Antonio Brown

bertha's last minute addition of Antonio Brown made this thread come up in a search, so I selected it to highlight his behavior yesterday.



Here's Brown's rap sheet for just the past five years, and this does not include various times when he hurt his team with penalties for excessive taunting and celebratory behavior:

2016: After the game, Brown broadcast the team's locker room celebration on Facebook Live in violation of NFL rules and despite the requests of teammates Ben Roethlisberger and Ramon Foster to "keep a low profile on social media". The broadcast included head coach Mike Tomlin speaking crudely about championship round opponent New England, for which Tomlin later apologized and disciplined Brown.

2017: During a Week 4 26-9 road victory over the Baltimore Ravens, Brown became angry over not being thrown the ball by Roethlisberger on an incomplete play, and was filmed throwing a Gatorade cooler and yelling at coaches.

2018: After allegedly getting into an argument with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, then skipping practices leading up to the Week 17 game against the Bengals, Brown was benched for that game. Following the season, reports surfaced indicating Brown's dissatisfaction with his role on the Steelers, and he eventually requested a trade.

2019: Prior to the trade to Oakland, reports surfaced that the Steelers were "close to a deal" with the Buffalo Bills, but that the deal was canceled after Brown protested on social media.

2019: On August 9, he filed a grievance to continue wearing his old helmet even though it was banned, threatening to retire from football if he was forced to wear a new helmet. Despite Brown's pleas to continue wearing his old helmet, an arbitrator denied his request. Brown eventually found a replacement for his old helmet, but it also did not meet the NFL's standards. Afterwards, he continued to not practice with the Raiders. Brown filed a second grievance regarding his helmet on August 19, which he also lost.

2019: On September 4, Brown was fined a combined $54,000 by general manager Mike Mayock due to unexcused absences and missing two team practice sessions. Brown posted the letter of his fines on Instagram, a move that was scrutinized around the league. The following day, Brown confronted Mayock and had a verbal altercation, with reports stating that Brown called Mayock a "cracker", which Brown later denied. It was also reported that Brown threatened to hit Mayock, and had to be held back by several teammates, including linebacker Vontaze Burfict. Afterwards, he punted a football and said to Mayock "fine me for that". [A few days later,] Brown demanded his release from the Raiders after they voided the guaranteed money in his contract.

2020: Despite allegations of sexual and personal misconduct levied against him, Brown practiced with the Patriots in preparation for his season debut in Week 2 ... On September 20, following further allegations, in addition to allegedly intimidating text messages sent to one of his accusers after going to New England, Brown was cut by the Patriots.

2020: On July 31, 2020, Brown was suspended for the first eight weeks of the 2020 NFL season for multiple violations of the league's personal-conduct policy.

2020: [Now with the Buccaneers,] on November 16, 2020, it was reported that Brown destroyed a security camera and threw a bicycle at a security guard at his home.

2021: On December 2, 2021, Brown was suspended for three games by the NFL for violating the league's COVID-19 protocols by misrepresenting his vaccination status [fake vaccination card].

2021: With the Buccaneers down 10–24 during the third quarter of the Buccaneers' Week 17 game against the New York Jets, Brown took his jersey, shoulder pads, glove, and shirt off and ran off the field into the locker room during the third quarter. Buccaneers head coach Bruce Arians said in a postgame press conference (after the Buccaneers had won) that Brown "is no longer a Buc". Later, Arians spoke to Fox Sports' Jay Glazer after the game, explaining he tried to get Brown to go into the game and Brown refused. Arians tried to get Brown to go in again and he refused, which is when Arians told Brown to leave. When asked if he saw Brown take his jersey off, Arians said he did and he had "never seen anything like it in all my years." Tom Brady in the same press conference stated “We all love him, we care about him deeply, we wanna see him be at his best, unfortunately it won’t be with our team.”

My point? You watch; somebody will hire him yet again despite his proven track record for being a distraction and team cancer. For me, he would have been on my radar after the 2016 incident in which his own teammates asked him to cool it. He would have been labeled undesirable after his 2017 highjinks.

The Giants suck this year and they have been doing so for quite a while now. That's bad enough. But if they sign this clown, I am permanently resigning my Giants fanhood.

[albatross11]

Teams, and leagues, always find some asinine rationalizations to give guys like this "another chance/benefit of the doubt". See: Josh Gordon. Don't know why; but probably making money is involved. On both sides. Certainly not any "high moral grounds". On either side.

[Syd Thrift]

I’m all but convinced that there is something much darker at play here. When Brown passes away, which I think might come way, way too soon, I think there’s going to be a very good chance we’ll find out that all of this was heavily influenced by CTE.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by bertha

Floyd Mayweather
Randy Moss
Metta World Peace
Dennis Rodman
Lance Armstrong
Tonya Harding
John McEnroe
Ben Johnson
Sammy Sosa
Antonio Brown

This is as good a list as any.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I’m all but convinced that there is something much darker at play here. When Brown passes away, which I think might come way, way too soon, I think there’s going to be a very good chance we’ll find out that all of this was heavily influenced by CTE.

It's possible. It's just as possible that he's an asshole.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

It's possible. It's just as possible that he's an asshole.

If so, his assholery has grown by leaps and bounds over the past few years. Yes, he complained about playing time in Pittsburgh and leaked a video of Mike Tomlin talking trash about an opponent, but those are very, very small potatoes compared to what he's done recently. This whole thing reminds me a lot of the end of Mike Webster's life, actually, and that's reason number one why I'm taking a pause on all of this (and this also might have been the year I finally divorced myself from American football).