Competitive balance discussion

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Neither is bashing OOTP for being a bit aggressive on the promotion cycle in their first go-round.

This is such a fan boy interpretation of things. NOBODY I've seen here is "Bashing" OOTP. PT. They are informing the powers that be that there is a potential problem that can lead to fewer players.


Fewer players = less revenue for the people you are so concerned are being bashed.


Why are you so invested in the Devs making less money by chasing away a segment of the market?

[screamingpalm]

Just to clarify from my point... I don't care about winning or losing. I actually decided to go ahead and create a FTP team which will consist solely of Mariners players, so that should be proof enough lol. My main team is also doing well in Gold this season and might actually make the post season (and be crushed in Diamond if so heh).

I just really think that a FTP league without an auction house would be really fun with a much slower progression and more variety. I'm just really sick of seeing the same players over and over and over... game after game after game.

Lastly, if we could have two teams like this per account, it would seem more convenient to switch between them without having to log in and out.

Just my .02 fwiw. Cheers!

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

Just to clarify from my point... I don't care about winning or losing. I actually decided to go ahead and create a FTP team which will consist solely of Mariners players, so that should be proof enough lol. My main team is also doing well in Gold this season and might actually make the post season (and be crushed in Diamond if so heh).

I just really think that a FTP league without an auction house would be really fun with a much slower progression and more variety. I'm just really sick of seeing the same players over and over and over... game after game after game.

Lastly, if we could have two teams like this per account, it would seem more convenient to switch between them without having to log in and out.

Just my .02 fwiw. Cheers!

nothing stopping anyone from doing that now.... one of my F2P teams is a pack-only / no AH / no $$ team.... won their bronze division first year (lost in the post season LDS).... lost 90+ games in year 2 and 3 in silver.... slightly less dismal in year 4 (but still missed the post season).... this year they lead their silver league division with a magic number of 4... sure they could improve quicker buying players from the AH, but that's not an option for them according to my own restrictions.

the entire league doesn't need to follow that path to make it fun... my team might spend more time in the lower leagues as they try to acquire better players and I might watch other teams that spend $$/buy from the AH quickly pass through as they climb to higher leagues; but that doesn't make it any less fun for me and my boys as we stick with our plan.

[screamingpalm]

Yeah sure, the problem though remains the same. Opponents rotation still remains: Corbin, Dierker, Verlander, Corbin, Carrasco, Dierker, Corbin... Doolittle and on it goes. Too many mirror matchups pitching and otherwise. I'm sure the higher leagues are the same with Mookie and Trout etc. I can try to get as creative as I can, but the problem remains.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Well I'm not the person you're asking but I'm in the exact same position. Spent $40 because it seemed at the time it would help me keep pace with other teams, give me a better chance to win, and get promoted, which is the whole point, right?

With that small investment I made the playoffs every week, got promoted every week, and even won the WS once. Good times were had. But now I am in perfect league, I totally hit a wall because my gold/silver player roster just can't compete with perfect/diamond rosters. I can't improve my team because the points have dried up, I can't get relegated without tanking and risking a ban, and I certainly can't win. So yeah there are no good options for me really and I'm starting to lose interest. If you have any suggestions other than throwing hundreds of $$$ into the game, I'm all ears...

Lesson learned I suppose. I won't be throwing small amounts at this game next time around. Better to just chill in a lower league as an FTP team.

This post represents EXACTLY how I and several others feel about the current state of the game. Well said.



Note: It is not "bashing" OOTP. It is informing them that a segment of their player base that does and has spent money is being "incentivized" not to spend the money in the future on this game.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

Yeah sure, the problem though remains the same. Opponents rotation still remains: Corbin, Dierker, Verlander, Corbin, Carrasco, Dierker, Corbin... Doolittle and on it goes. Too many mirror matchups pitching and otherwise. I'm sure the higher leagues are the same with Mookie and Trout etc. I can try to get as creative as I can, but the problem remains.

why is the opponents roster considered a problem? Does it really matter if my non-cookie-cutter team has to face Dierker/Barker/Corbin and pitch against Betts/Trout 80+ times a year? To me, it's all the more satisfying when my pack-only team ends up clinching the division, especially if it's against those kind of teams/players.

[screamingpalm]

It's satisfying the first few dozen times...

I'm just sick of seeing the same players game after game. Every single rotation in my league seems to have Corbin. Doesn't that get old to anyone? IDK but that's why I started a new team- and I'm leading my division currently in a tight race and can barely care lol.

Meanwhile, my new team is more interesting with my tin Felix Hernandez tearing it up and seeing so much variety and different players. I guess I'll hope to stay in a lower league maybe heh.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Well I'm not the person you're asking but I'm in the exact same position. Spent $40 because it seemed at the time it would help me keep pace with other teams, give me a better chance to win, and get promoted, which is the whole point, right?

With that small investment I made the playoffs every week, got promoted every week, and even won the WS once. Good times were had. But now I am in perfect league, I totally hit a wall because my gold/silver player roster just can't compete with perfect/diamond rosters. I can't improve my team because the points have dried up, I can't get relegated without tanking and risking a ban, and I certainly can't win. So yeah there are no good options for me really and I'm starting to lose interest. If you have any suggestions other than throwing hundreds of $$$ into the game, I'm all ears...

Lesson learned I suppose. I won't be throwing small amounts at this game next time around. Better to just chill in a lower league as an FTP team.

Originally Posted by SayHey1

This post represents EXACTLY how I and several others feel about the current state of the game. Well said.

All this post says is "I have not been able to pounce on weaker teams for the last five days and if I can't be the pouncer, just the pouncee, I don't wanna play". - Quite the playground bully attitude. Weak.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just not as spoiled as the previous poster, you, and the "several others".

Reminds me of the absolute barrenness of my dynasty team's string of 10 consecutive losing seasons. It took me a full real year to dig out of that. I wonder how y'all play the regular OOTP. When things get tough, you amp your pitcher's stuff rating for the playoff drive? Force trades? Oh, too bad that's not in the cards in this game.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Westheim

All this post says is "I have not been able to pounce on weaker teams for the last five days and if I can't be the pouncer, just the pouncee, I don't wanna play". - Quite the crybaby attitude.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just not as spoiled as the previous poster, you, and the "several others".

Reminds me of the absolute barrenness of my dynasty team's string of 10 consecutive losing seasons. It took me a full real year to dig out of that. I wonder how y'all play the regular OOTP. When things get tough, you amp your pitcher's stuff rating for the playoff drive? Force trades? Oh, too bad that's not in the cards in this game.

What is it with folks like you? You don't know me. I've never made accusations against you or your motivations. You know NOTHING about my play style or motivations but speak like an expert.



Step off.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

What is it with folks like you? You don't know me. I've never made accusations against you or your motivations. You know NOTHING about my play style or motivations but speak like an expert.



Step off.

Make me. Your words: you feel exactly like chazzycat, who has been on the receiving end for *one* week and is already losing interest. Now you don't want to hear about it?

Always the same with online game crowds. Big words, nothing of substance behind it.

Feel free to put me on your ignore list, but I will not stop calling out this me-first, only-winners-have-fun attitude.

[SayHey1]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Make me. Your words: you feel exactly like chazzycat, who has been on the receiving end for *one* week and is already losing interest. Now you don't want to hear about it?

Always the same with online game crowds. Big words, nothing of substance behind it.

Make me? What are you 12?


Every post I've made here has been an attempt to make others understand the frustrations of part of the player base. Never attacked others experiences. Never attacked the Devs. Never wanted anything but to improve an amazing game.



You're not part of that frustrated group. Fine. I'm happy for you. Go post about your Dynasty team then or something more productive.



Meanwhile, the only post you've made here to me was insulting, unproductive and downright hostile. I don't know what I ever did, but don't have to put up with it.


In other words......shove it.

[boxner1]

Originally Posted by Weaseltail

Player 1: My team's getting crushed in (insert league) and I can't afford to improve it any more. I'd much rather be in a league with teams at my level.

Player 2: Not everyone can win. If you don't like it, try a different game.

Me:

Except why not have the option of a salary cap league like the NFL? Every year teams go from last to first in the NFL, which means that every GM and fan thinks they have a chance to win every year. That keeps everyone interested and no one feels they start the season with no chance at all. It's all due to the salary cap.

In our case, a salary cap would likely be total ratings points. Say you have a cap of 1500 rating points. Spend it any way you like. Maybe one GM buys 17 40pt basement players (680) and the rest on 8 100 Perfects. Another GM chooses to buy 25 60 rated players. Or, any variation in between. Good GMs would be trying to find the players with the most bang for the ratings buck (Kyle Schwarber) or creating platoons. No one would be outclassed and every manager would start the season knowing they're competitive with every other team.

Give us an option. Salary cap leagues for those who would enjoy FTP and non-cap leagues for those who either want to spend money or enjoy the challenge of trying to win without money.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

Every post I've made here has been an attempt to make others understand the frustrations of part of the player base.

Inherently wrong and flawed expectations, e.g. "I can win each and every time, and I care about nothing else".

Feels like this thread has gone 50+ pages, but has advanced not even one inch in the last two months.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by screamingpalm

It's satisfying the first few dozen times...

I'm just sick of seeing the same players game after game. Every single rotation in my league seems to have Corbin. Doesn't that get old to anyone? IDK but that's why I started a new team- and I'm leading my division currently in a tight race and can barely care lol.

Meanwhile, my new team is more interesting with my tin Felix Hernandez tearing it up and seeing so much variety and different players. I guess I'll hope to stay in a lower league maybe heh.

and you just might be onto something there....


we're only 5 seasons into PT.... in order to be in the perfect leagues, a team would have had to achieve promotion every season.... while that's not super difficult considering that half the lower league moved up each season to fill the higher leagues (so a number of mediocre/sub-500 teams were in that mix), the fact that a much smaller number move down makes it more difficult to move back down should your team be over-matched...

enjoy the new team in the lower leagues, and take your time building.... it's a journey, not a race.... "unfortunately" for me, my pack-only team is about to secure their silver division title this season, so next year I'll probably be a punching bag in gold league, but I'll still enjoy the process


but if you barely care with your new winning team, maybe this mode of the game isn't for you (it's not going to be for everyone)... or just check in a couple times a week to see how your team is doing, rather than follow so close that you know they've faced Corbin a dozen times in the month

[runyan99]

It's not about "winning each and every time". It's about not making the mode completely money based. There is a reason real sports leagues use a salary cap.

In my current gold season I started the season with 7 golds and 3 diamonds.

My division rival has 8 golds and 17 diamonds.

So on Monday I knew I was the Wildcard team. Is that interesting? I'm arguing no.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by runyan99

It's not about "winning each and every time". It's about not making the mode completely money based. There is a reason real sports leagues use a salary cap.

Originally Posted by Westheim

Feels like this thread has gone 50+ pages, but has advanced not even one inch in the last two months.

Please also be aware that MLB uses a soft cap and you can in theory blow as many hundreds of millions of dollars as long as you pay up the tax.

[runyan99]

Noted that the MLB uses a soft cap to limit salary. Thanks.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Inherently wrong and flawed expectations, e.g. "I can win each and every time, and I care about nothing else".

Feels like this thread has gone 50+ pages, but has advanced not even one inch in the last two months.

I'm not sure you are really listening to what he has to say. It's about the overall structure.

Myself? I told my buddy I wouldn't spend a dime when it started but it has been fun and it cost me about $250 at this point.

Sayhey is simply laying out a point of view many share. I'd like to see a better way of initially seeding teams. In addition, a free to play league would be great. I'd love to see it but of course one perfect historical and one team would instantly become a super team. The idea of disabling the AH on such a FTP league would make sense due to this. It might be an interesting idea to look at by OOTP.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Please also be aware that MLB uses a soft cap and you can in theory blow as many hundreds of millions of dollars as long as you pay up the tax.

The main reason I last seriously watched baseball in 1994.....

[screamingpalm]

Originally Posted by stl jason

and you just might be onto something there....


we're only 5 seasons into PT.... in order to be in the perfect leagues, a team would have had to achieve promotion every season.... while that's not super difficult considering that half the lower league moved up each season to fill the higher leagues (so a number of mediocre/sub-500 teams were in that mix), the fact that a much smaller number move down makes it more difficult to move back down should your team be over-matched...

enjoy the new team in the lower leagues, and take your time building.... it's a journey, not a race.... "unfortunately" for me, my pack-only team is about to secure their silver division title this season, so next year I'll probably be a punching bag in gold league, but I'll still enjoy the process


but if you barely care with your new winning team, maybe this mode of the game isn't for you (it's not going to be for everyone)... or just check in a couple times a week to see how your team is doing, rather than follow so close that you know they've faced Corbin a dozen times in the month

Not new winning team- my main. I really like the game, don't get me wrong. I just seem to have much more fun in the lower tier leagues. My main is ahead by just a few games in Gold league, but like I said... sick and tired of seeing Corbin et al (apologies to IRL Patrick).

My new team is FTP but I used the AH to build a team with nothing but Mariners. Tin Felix is doing awesome as well as Marco Gonzales, but Paxton is getting SHELLED. It's been fun so far. My point was obviously it isn't just about winning.

I had planned to do it from the get go and my starter pack gold was Bret Boone (meant to be lol).