hit a wall

old timer · 12-14-2018, 05:12 PM

First off, I'm not posting to complain. I just want to share some observations and here ideas from others.

I just recently realized the way I've been upgrading my team is not going to continue to work well. Every time I had enough PP to get a player I wanted, I spent it. Since I'm not using money, I rely upon PP earned from achievements.

Since I spent my PP to get players on the AH, I didn't use it to open packs. In the short term, that will tend to be a better use of your PP, but in the long term...

So the problem is the following: I don't earn much PP from achievements. I've only been able to add 1 player to my roster so far this year. In order to upgrade at any position, I have to spend a lot more PP than I have, because I already have really good players pretty much everywhere (for their level). So to get an upgrade, I need to spend way more than I can earn, whereas before, I could upgrade with the PP I earned from achievements.

My team is still pretty decent (about .550 WPct), but won't be for long since other teams are upgrading at a much faster pace. Only 2 of my players are worth much on the AH and selling them doesn't seem like it would do much good.

For example, if I sold them, I might get 5000 PP. I'm not likely going to get someone better for that much PP and if I used it to open 5 packs, odds are I'd get less value from that. So it seems like I'm stuck. The players that are better than mine cost WAY more than mine did. So if feels like I've hit a wall - a barrier that I can't figure out how to get past. Just leaving the team and coming back much later will eventually give me enough PP to get someone better, but that doesn't sound like much fun.

So what to do (without spending money)? If I open packs with what PP I have right now, I'll get to open 1 pack. By the end of the season, I might have enough for 2 or 3. I might get lucky and get someone great that I can sell. But if not, I'll have wasted maybe 3K which I could have used to get a slight upgrade somewhere.

Any suggestions?

old timer · 12-14-2018, 05:22 PM

I'd also like to add that I almost certainly will get promoted to the gold league and my team will lag even more there. And if relegation is only for the 2 teams at the very bottom, I may never sink that low thus getting stuck for quite a while in a league where the competition will likely be mostly better.

stl jason · 12-14-2018, 05:30 PM

I feel your pain.... playing two teams here... one I'm limiting to packs only (no AH or $$, but no player restrictions, i.e. anyone is eligible for the roster)... definitely slow going there... I get maybe enough for a pack every 2-3 days, and even then haven't pulled anything other than a minor bronze RP upgrade for the bullpen... they did win their division in the bronze league, but are struggling this season just looking to stay clear of relegation....

the other team is strictly pre ww2 players (again, no $$ but can buy from AH or use packs)... just biding my time there until I save up enough points to get some good upgrades from the AH (tried a handful of packs but not only didn't get any pre ww2 players, but didn't get anything worth selling that would make my points back that I spent on the packs

so figured my points would be better served stockpiling for awhile until I get enough for an AH purchase)... same as the other team (won the division as well as the LDS in bronze, but bringing up the rear this season)

so unfortunately, the name of the game is patience... I knew I wasn't going to be picking up new/better players on a daily basis going with this strategy, but it's the price I have to pay for not spending $$... maybe I'll get lucky and pull a pricey player from a pack I can sell for big points, but I'm not holding my breath

Orcin · 12-14-2018, 06:02 PM

My best suggestion: invest $20 and open 25 packs. Sell what you don’t need to buy what you do need.

Alternative: open packs with all of your points and hope to hit something big.

Third option: quit

Matt Arnold · 12-14-2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

My best suggestion: invest $20 and open 25 packs. Sell what you don’t need to buy what you do need.

Alternative: open packs with all of your points and hope to hit something big.

Third option: quit

Well, the third option might be a bit drastic

But over time, it's certainly going to take more effort to improve your roster. Early on, almost every pack you open will have someone useful. Later on, you're going to go on strings where nobody helps.

But yeah, once you've built up a solid team, then you either need to be more diligent poking through the auction house to figure out where to upgrade, or maybe you save up points for a few days or a week, and buy packs then.

It's also a good chance sometimes to evaluate the roster. Maybe if I start to fall out a little, I play guys around a little differently, to set myself up better. If you're riding a .550 winning pct, then you're probably not tanking the season in any respect, so probably you need to focus more on making sure your strategies are set right down the stretch so that you don't fall out of the playoff picture. And maybe you don't buy any cards or packs for a couple days, but wait until the end of season awards come in to save up for a guy who will really help you more.

Or maybe you just buy a pack here or there and hope you get lucky. I just bought a pack at random a couple days ago and drew a Dierker card, that I had been debating buying at auction.

old timer · 12-14-2018, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

My best suggestion: invest $20 and open 25 packs. Sell what you don’t need to buy what you do need.

Alternative: open packs with all of your points and hope to hit something big.

Third option: quit

These are all reasonable suggestions. But I'd rather not spend money at this point and I'd rather use any money I get from others for other things. Opening packs with less than 2K isn't likely going to help. Of course, I could get really lucky on my first pack.

As to the 3rd option, I'm not yet ready to quit. I might just let my team earn PP on it's own for the next season without spending and maybe I'll gamble on packs. I'm not sure at this point.

I guess I was just curious if I was missing something. Opening packs seems like it will fail for most people with low PP incomes, but for the few who are lucky, they could get a boost that could allow them to use their "money" to make even more money. For example, if you have enough PP, you could buy cards that are being sold for too little and then sell them for more. But this can be profitable only if the cards are worth a lot to begin with.

In other words, it looks like PT is mirroring real life here. You need not only a good strategy, but some "money" to get things going and then you need to wisely use it. Add in luck which is also really important and then you can be successful. So perhaps I was just hoping I could find a way around this, but at the moment, it seems like luck and/or patience is the only viable strategy (sans using money).

old timer · 12-14-2018, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

[snipped...] so probably you need to focus more on making sure your strategies are set right down the stretch so that you don't fall out of the playoff picture. And maybe you don't buy any cards or packs for a couple days, but wait until the end of season awards come in to save up for a guy who will really help you more.

Or maybe you just buy a pack here or there and hope you get lucky. I just bought a pack at random a couple days ago and drew a Dierker card, that I had been debating buying at auction.

I've spent a fair bit of time adjusting things like strategy settings and checking my lineup to see how everyone is doing, checking L/R splits, etc. And it's worked well. My team had the best defense in the league and was 2nd or 3rd in most pitching categories at the midpoint of the season.

I have very good fielding players at C, 2B, SS, 3B and CF and good hitters everywhere else. My pitchers don't give up many homers (without altering my ballpark) and there are numerous other little things I've tweaked (like rarely stealing which suits my team much better) so I think I've done reasonably well there.

I guess I'll just wait and start accumulating PP and then decide whether to gamble (opening packs) or to continue to upgrade from the AH.

Orcin · 12-14-2018, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old timer

I guess I'll just wait and start accumulating PP and then decide whether to gamble (opening packs) or to continue to upgrade from the AH.

The third option was bait. I thought you would reject that, so here is the REAL third option: patience. This is a marathon, not a sprint. So sit on your roster and accumulate points until you have enough to make a REAL difference. Then improve your weakest area via the auction house and build up again. If you are a gambler, I would be opening packs but it sounds like you are more conservative.

It is week 2. You need to be thinking about getting better by January. Unless of course, you are willing to spend money.

zrog2000 · 12-14-2018, 06:48 PM

Another option -

If you do not have 3 teams, start another one and make it your main team. You'll start out in much easier leagues.

I've done that with a 2nd team and am starting to like it better than my other team. I bought 5 packs after a few weeks of doing nothing and ended up with a Robles future legend, and a gold Acuna, who will go with my Ichiro to make an absolutely incredible outfield (all over 80). I'm now going to try a big outfield strategy with big contact/gap hitters which is much different what I did with my main team. Now to upgrade with some extreme fly ball pitchers!

old timer · 12-14-2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

The third option was bait. I thought you would reject that, so here is the REAL third option: patience. This is a marathon, not a sprint. So sit on your roster and accumulate points until you have enough to make a REAL difference. Then improve your weakest area via the auction house and build up again. If you are a gambler, I would be opening packs but it sounds like you are more conservative.

It is week 2. You need to be thinking about getting better by January. Unless of course, you are willing to spend money.

You're right, I'm not a gambler type.

One thing that I was thinking that might help, would be to try to add someone who's more likely to earn PP. So even if they're not the most helpful to the team at the moment, they could be in the long run if they earn more PP than others. So now that I've seen a lot of different achievements, I'm thinking that I should consider trying to maximize this at the moment.

old timer · 12-14-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Another option -

If you do not have 3 teams, start another one and make it your main team. You'll start out in much easier leagues.

I might consider this, but for now, I'll try sticking to this team. I've grown attached to them and I find it hard to pay attention to multiple things at once.

By the way, thanks to all for all the advice and suggestions offered so far. It does help me to think better (even if I don't end up following any of the advice I hear).

Orcin · 12-14-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old timer

You're right, I'm not a gambler type.

One thing that I was thinking that might help, would be to try to add someone who's more likely to earn PP. So even if they're not the most helpful to the team at the moment, they could be in the long run if they earn more PP than others. So now that I've seen a lot of different achievements, I'm thinking that I should consider trying to maximize this at the moment.

If you have a hole that you could fill with a PP earner, it would make sense. Just keep in mind that you could add Lou Brock or Billy Hamilton and he could hit .180 and not get on base often enough to steal any bases. I prefer to field my best team and take my chances.

Matt Arnold · 12-14-2018, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

If you have a hole that you could fill with a PP earner, it would make sense. Just keep in mind that you could add Lou Brock or Billy Hamilton and he could hit .180 and not get on base often enough to steal any bases. I prefer to field my best team and take my chances.

I had something like that recently. When upgrading my rotation, I was trying to figure out who to drop. While Langston did well for me last year getting lots of 10k games, this year I thought he was too volatile, costing me too many games, so I kept Dennis Martinez around instead. While he's never going to get a corner painter achievement, I think he gives me a better chance to win.

old timer · 12-14-2018, 07:06 PM

I've gotten 2 corner painter achievements from Dennis Martinez and last season he got several SHOs (he won 21 Gs for my .530 team). But this season, he's just solid and that's all.

If I were to go for a base stealer, he'd have to be good at getting on base, but those probably will cost too much for now. So then maybe just continuing to add the "best" at each position and not worrying about PP is a better strategy then?

old timer · 12-14-2018, 07:09 PM

Right after writing the previous post, Dennis Martinez got the Maddux achievement again so yeah, I think he's been a really amazing investment. Some others have produced nicely for very little PP invested, like Oquendo (2B) and Aparicio (SS) who won the glove award last season and probably will again.

old timer · 12-14-2018, 07:15 PM

OK, I just realized something. Surely at some point, I'll have a high PP achievement happen even with my current team and that could make a nice difference right there. Maybe I've just been unlucky there. I've only had 1 achievement worth over 400 PP, not counting the playoff achievement. Speaking of which, if my team makes the playoffs again, that's a nice 1K right there (for the WC).

<Pion> · 12-14-2018, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old timer

OK, I just realized something. Surely at some point, I'll have a high PP achievement happen even with my current team and that could make a nice difference right there. Maybe I've just been unlucky there. I've only had 1 achievement worth over 400 PP, not counting the playoff achievement. Speaking of which, if my team makes the playoffs again, that's a nice 1K right there (for the WC).

It's a pleasant surprise when you get the rare 4Ks in one inning achievement.

Maddox · 12-14-2018, 07:21 PM

I know the felling, I am in kind of the same boat. In the beginning the upgrades come quick because upgrades may be a silver instead of a gold.

I honestly am not sure I have even upgraded my team this year. I think the last card i got from the auction house was last Saturday before the playoffs started on Sunday.

I occasionally look at the Auction house for upgrades but I remind myself that I can't afford to impulse buy cards anymore because I am not looking at silvers or low golds as much. I still don't have a Diamond.I am leading my league though so I will most likely get promoted as well.

I am not a fan of investing $20 and buying 25 packs. There is no guarantee that you will find upgrades.

Orcin · 12-14-2018, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

I am not a fan of investing $20 and buying 25 packs. There is no guarantee that you will find upgrades.

Yep, it is pure gambling. However, one perfect... even an oversaturated perfect like deGrom or Sale or Trout... pays for the entire run.

NYY #23 · 12-14-2018, 08:30 PM

The middle is a tough place to be. Upgrades are definitely tougher to come by once you get to a certain point. It definitely pays to have patience. I like to make a list of my top areas of need, identify a target, but then you have to wait it out.

I'm not a gambler like Orcin, and prefer to upgrade through the AH. I do think there is a certain point where it's worth it to switch to packs, although I'm not quite there yet.

I do like the strategy of trying to find one earner. The trick is finding one who won't hurt you too much though. There are a few bronze that you can turn loose on the bases. Clyde Milan was one I've had luck with in the past.

I saw someone recommend Sam Jones, and found him pretty cheap. Might be able to pick up some corner painters with his stuff against some teams. He's got faults, but a few spot starts against the right opponent could help.

Good luck, and hang in there.

12-14-2018, 05:12 PM	#1
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	hit a wall First off, I'm not posting to complain. I just want to share some observations and here ideas from others. I just recently realized the way I've been upgrading my team is not going to continue to work well. Every time I had enough PP to get a player I wanted, I spent it. Since I'm not using money, I rely upon PP earned from achievements. Since I spent my PP to get players on the AH, I didn't use it to open packs. In the short term, that will tend to be a better use of your PP, but in the long term... So the problem is the following: I don't earn much PP from achievements. I've only been able to add 1 player to my roster so far this year. In order to upgrade at any position, I have to spend a lot more PP than I have, because I already have really good players pretty much everywhere (for their level). So to get an upgrade, I need to spend way more than I can earn, whereas before, I could upgrade with the PP I earned from achievements. My team is still pretty decent (about .550 WPct), but won't be for long since other teams are upgrading at a much faster pace. Only 2 of my players are worth much on the AH and selling them doesn't seem like it would do much good. For example, if I sold them, I might get 5000 PP. I'm not likely going to get someone better for that much PP and if I used it to open 5 packs, odds are I'd get less value from that. So it seems like I'm stuck. The players that are better than mine cost WAY more than mine did. So if feels like I've hit a wall - a barrier that I can't figure out how to get past. Just leaving the team and coming back much later will eventually give me enough PP to get someone better, but that doesn't sound like much fun. So what to do (without spending money)? If I open packs with what PP I have right now, I'll get to open 1 pack. By the end of the season, I might have enough for 2 or 3. I might get lucky and get someone great that I can sell. But if not, I'll have wasted maybe 3K which I could have used to get a slight upgrade somewhere. Any suggestions? __________________ Last edited by old timer; 12-14-2018 at 05:18 PM.

12-14-2018, 05:30 PM	#3
stl jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10,112	I feel your pain.... playing two teams here... one I'm limiting to packs only (no AH or $$, but no player restrictions, i.e. anyone is eligible for the roster)... definitely slow going there... I get maybe enough for a pack every 2-3 days, and even then haven't pulled anything other than a minor bronze RP upgrade for the bullpen... they did win their division in the bronze league, but are struggling this season just looking to stay clear of relegation.... the other team is strictly pre ww2 players (again, no $$ but can buy from AH or use packs)... just biding my time there until I save up enough points to get some good upgrades from the AH (tried a handful of packs but not only didn't get any pre ww2 players, but didn't get anything worth selling that would make my points back that I spent on the packs so figured my points would be better served stockpiling for awhile until I get enough for an AH purchase)... same as the other team (won the division as well as the LDS in bronze, but bringing up the rear this season) so unfortunately, the name of the game is patience... I knew I wasn't going to be picking up new/better players on a daily basis going with this strategy, but it's the price I have to pay for not spending $$... maybe I'll get lucky and pull a pricey player from a pack I can sell for big points, but I'm not holding my breath __________________ Beer League dynasty thread - knock 'em back!

12-14-2018, 07:06 PM	#14
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	I've gotten 2 corner painter achievements from Dennis Martinez and last season he got several SHOs (he won 21 Gs for my .530 team). But this season, he's just solid and that's all. If I were to go for a base stealer, he'd have to be good at getting on base, but those probably will cost too much for now. So then maybe just continuing to add the "best" at each position and not worrying about PP is a better strategy then? __________________ Last edited by old timer; 12-14-2018 at 07:08 PM.

12-14-2018, 07:09 PM	#15
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	Right after writing the previous post, Dennis Martinez got the Maddux achievement again so yeah, I think he's been a really amazing investment. Some others have produced nicely for very little PP invested, like Oquendo (2B) and Aparicio (SS) who won the glove award last season and probably will again. __________________ Last edited by old timer; 12-14-2018 at 07:11 PM.

12-14-2018, 07:15 PM	#16
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	OK, I just realized something. Surely at some point, I'll have a high PP achievement happen even with my current team and that could make a nice difference right there. Maybe I've just been unlucky there. I've only had 1 achievement worth over 400 PP, not counting the playoff achievement. Speaking of which, if my team makes the playoffs again, that's a nice 1K right there (for the WC). __________________

12-14-2018, 05:22 PM	#2
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	I'd also like to add that I almost certainly will get promoted to the gold league and my team will lag even more there. And if relegation is only for the 2 teams at the very bottom, I may never sink that low thus getting stuck for quite a while in a league where the competition will likely be mostly better. __________________ Last edited by old timer; 12-14-2018 at 05:26 PM.

12-14-2018, 06:02 PM	#4
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,890	My best suggestion: invest $20 and open 25 packs. Sell what you don’t need to buy what you do need. Alternative: open packs with all of your points and hope to hit something big. Third option: quit

12-14-2018, 06:48 PM	#9
zrog2000 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,339	Another option - If you do not have 3 teams, start another one and make it your main team. You'll start out in much easier leagues. I've done that with a 2nd team and am starting to like it better than my other team. I bought 5 packs after a few weeks of doing nothing and ended up with a Robles future legend, and a gold Acuna, who will go with my Ichiro to make an absolutely incredible outfield (all over 80). I'm now going to try a big outfield strategy with big contact/gap hitters which is much different what I did with my main team. Now to upgrade with some extreme fly ball pitchers!

12-14-2018, 07:21 PM	#18
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	I know the felling, I am in kind of the same boat. In the beginning the upgrades come quick because upgrades may be a silver instead of a gold. I honestly am not sure I have even upgraded my team this year. I think the last card i got from the auction house was last Saturday before the playoffs started on Sunday. I occasionally look at the Auction house for upgrades but I remind myself that I can't afford to impulse buy cards anymore because I am not looking at silvers or low golds as much. I still don't have a Diamond.I am leading my league though so I will most likely get promoted as well. I am not a fan of investing $20 and buying 25 packs. There is no guarantee that you will find upgrades.

12-14-2018, 08:30 PM	#20
NYY #23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 13,112	The middle is a tough place to be. Upgrades are definitely tougher to come by once you get to a certain point. It definitely pays to have patience. I like to make a list of my top areas of need, identify a target, but then you have to wait it out. I'm not a gambler like Orcin, and prefer to upgrade through the AH. I do think there is a certain point where it's worth it to switch to packs, although I'm not quite there yet. I do like the strategy of trying to find one earner. The trick is finding one who won't hurt you too much though. There are a few bronze that you can turn loose on the bases. Clyde Milan was one I've had luck with in the past. I saw someone recommend Sam Jones, and found him pretty cheap. Might be able to pick up some corner painters with his stuff against some teams. He's got faults, but a few spot starts against the right opponent could help. Good luck, and hang in there.