Suggestion: More Consistent PP Revenue Stream - Page 3

Markus Heinsohn · 11-10-2018, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajax

Follow-up/modified suggestion: I gave it another 12 hours and managed to make 1400 points. While I appreciate Marcus' concern for not having PP flying everywhere, I think steadying out the stream some will help player satisfaction and first impressions for retaining the target new customer base. I would rob a little from some of the other reward values and give some small token rewards for daily login and game wins. The target would be same overall average PP awards, just equalized some to avoid the complete feeling of no progress at points.

We have discussed this internally, something like giving out 10 points per win or so, but in the end we decided against it because it would widen the gap between the poor & rich.

I thought that maybe awarding some PP for a losing streak would be okay, but maybe that gets exploited by users who intentionally have all RP in their lineup for one season to load up their PP. So that is not a good idea either.

So, it will remain the way it works now, I think the system is in great shape, and the initial data we have gathered supports this.

Westheim · 11-10-2018, 03:12 PM

Participatory ribbons should not merit reward. Success on the field should.

If you want to pay out for every single W, however, you either have to slash all the other rewards to trivial amounts, or make the W payout so small as to be meaningless. Neither option sounds very desirable.

cak · 11-10-2018, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yes, but that is technically not progress. It's an investment which carries over.

Markus,
Its your game and your rules which I respect but in my mind the beta gives everyone a chance to learn the game, work the auctions and put the best team possible on the field which takes time and is an investment, just not a monetary one. Regards

Ajax · 11-10-2018, 03:19 PM

I've also only opened a couple extra packs and agree that my impression for best low-cost strategy is to start with auction house castoffs vs. Boom or Bust on packs. Because the game resets after a couple weeks, I'm trying to buy more packs to experiment before going to a mostly-auction house strategy after the reset.

I think you're right that pack opening is a lot of fun, so I don't want to give it up entirely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmc

We are certainly early so lets not be hasty in changes.
I am another .400s winning percentage team. I think I have learned from some mistakes and look forward to the start over.
However a big attraction to this mode was the pack opening. I have only bought one standard pack & on reflection feel like it was irrational to do so.
It feels like the packs are for the powerful teams to experience & I should build through auction from their castoffs. Just seems to be more efficient use of the PP.
Maybe aside from winning PP have a was to win packs? Maybe a season end pack for losing records?
Not really sure of the answer but bottom line ... I would like to open more packs.
I really appreciate the new life this mode brings to the ootp world along with the traditional ootp experience that has entertained me so much for over a decade. Thanks guys!

Orcin · 11-10-2018, 03:27 PM

Packs to build your team (draft and develop) and AH purchases (free agents) to fill the holes.

Silfir · 11-10-2018, 03:41 PM

Daily login rewards are absolute garbage, period. I want to be logging in because I feel like playing the game, not because I have to in order not to fall behind other players.

It's double garbage in Perfect Team's case because the game is specifically designed to be played completely hands-off if the player wishes.

I do think that the current system does favor teams that are already doing well by a bit - to counterbalance, I would introduce negative achievements to the pool - like the Golden Sombrero achievement for a player striking out five times, or one for pitchers giving up back-to-back homeruns, or a Golden one for being on the receiving end of a no-hitter or perfect game. (It's possible this is already a thing, in which case disregard.)

Orcin · 11-10-2018, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silfir

I do think that the current system does favor teams that are already doing well by a bit - to counterbalance, I would introduce negative achievements to the pool - like the Golden Sombrero achievement for a player striking out five times, or one for pitchers giving up back-to-back homeruns, or a Golden one for being on the receiving end of a no-hitter or perfect game. (It's possible this is already a thing, in which case disregard.)

I would not be in favor of taking points away. The bad teams are going to get worse this way.

Silfir · 11-10-2018, 04:01 PM

Who ever said anything about taking points away? I'm suggesting to award points for these "achievements".

Not so many that it becomes a valid strategy to field "meme" teams designed specifically to tank an entire season to farm up these null-achievements, of course. Just as a means to make PP income feel less skewed towards rewarding already successful teams.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-10-2018, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cak

Markus,
Its your game and your rules which I respect but in my mind the beta gives everyone a chance to learn the game, work the auctions and put the best team possible on the field which takes time and is an investment, just not a monetary one. Regards

The thing is, the Beta period isn't for the players, at least not directly. The intent is for the dev team to be able to see how things are running, and make changes as need be. If there's a bug that gives a player 5000 PP instead of 500 for an achievement, it wouldn't really be fair to carry that over into the final release.

Think of it like Spring Training. The players put in a lot of time and effort, but you wouldn't want Spring Training stats to carry into the regular season, since ST is used to experiment with the team and hammer out any issues.

Orcin · 11-10-2018, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silfir

Who ever said anything about taking points away? I'm suggesting to award points for these "achievements".

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Dark Horse · 11-11-2018, 03:13 AM

How about introducing some easy to make achievements that would only be awarded once a month? That way you're not flooding the market with PP, but a player can still see your counter moving a little even in those slow periods. Here are some monthly achievements that could possibly be added:

10 PP for individual win
10 PP for individual save
10 PP for two hit game
10 PP for two steal game
10 PP for a grand slam (regardless of situation)
10 PP for team that strikes out 10 batters
10 PP for team that gets 10 hits
10 PP for team that steals 3 bases
10 PP for two game team winning streak
10 PP for team that hits for cycle in game
50 PP for individual with 10 total bases
50 PP for team that scores 10 runs
50 PP for team shutout
10 PP for individual hit by pitch (You can name it RUB SOME DIRT ON IT)
10 PP for team not allowing a walk
10 PP for team throwing out two basestealers
10 PP for team not comitting an error
10 PP for team turning 2 double plays in a game
10 PP for team win in extra innings

Markus Heinsohn · 11-11-2018, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silfir

Who ever said anything about taking points away? I'm suggesting to award points for these "achievements".

Not so many that it becomes a valid strategy to field "meme" teams designed specifically to tank an entire season to farm up these null-achievements, of course. Just as a means to make PP income feel less skewed towards rewarding already successful teams.

The issue here is, you cannot force winning. You can however force losing, for example by placing RP in your lineup or have position players in the rotation. And this would enable teams to tank for a season and load up on points. Not a good idea.

Silfir · 11-11-2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The issue here is, you cannot force winning. You can however force losing, for example by placing RP in your lineup or have position players in the rotation. And this would enable teams to tank for a season and load up on points. Not a good idea.

Again, the idea is not to have particularly rewarding null-achievements - the math should still work out such that fielding a legitimate team, even if it's not particularly good, will result in more PP over time than this hypothetical Meme Team would. That's just in my imagination, though; I trust you have good reason to believe it would be impossible.

waylander · 11-11-2018, 08:29 AM

I think the core problem is there is only one way for a player to actively earn PP, and that is to buy them. Most systems offer two ways - paying or grinding.

I play a lot of MUT and have a pretty competitive team without spending additional money on packs. To do so however, I have to log in every day and grind away to make sure I get the coin pack for the finishing the daily objectives.

The problem with grinding systems though is it almost feels like a job at times, which isn't good either.

Right now, I think Perfect Team is pretty fun. I'm not sure if I want another game where I feel obligated to log in every day and grind to ensure I don't miss out on my point earnings.

I do see the argument on both sides....

ThrownOutAtHome · 11-24-2018, 04:05 PM

I rarely to never earn any decent amount of player points myself. I'm not upset and this is my first season. I'm 74-70 and tied for first in a weak division. My team does not have a real power hitter on it. Seems that teams that it HRs gain pps better.

Is there some kind of chart so I can see how player points are earned?
I heard that after the beta we will be able to earn player points in Challenge mode. Is that true?

Either way I'm having a great time. After beta I'll most likely be one of the people to buy an occasional Gold pack. I'll never go crazy with real money but see no problem supporting the devs in buying occasional pps. Besides it is so much fun to open a new deck.

Have fun everyone and wish you all a grand slam walk off (unless you are playing me).

sentry85 · 11-26-2018, 08:50 AM

my only concern is that the pp award system is skewed towards hitting. my light hitting and good pitching team was awarded far more pp's for hitting than pitching. my light hitting team did have a few really good games. it is also entirely possible that my pitchers were performing at an above average rate consistently and just not doing anything exceptional, to deserve points. If it turns out that my skew concern is true, there may be a path to add more awards for pitching which may deliver a more consistent flow of pp's. but, with only 1 season of data to look at, i cannot conclude that more pitching awards are even necessary

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrownOutAtHome

I rarely to never earn any decent amount of player points myself. I'm not upset and this is my first season. I'm 74-70 and tied for first in a weak division. My team does not have a real power hitter on it. Seems that teams that it HRs gain pps better.

Is there some kind of chart so I can see how player points are earned?
I heard that after the beta we will be able to earn player points in Challenge mode. Is that true?

Either way I'm having a great time. After beta I'll most likely be one of the people to buy an occasional Gold pack. I'll never go crazy with real money but see no problem supporting the devs in buying occasional pps. Besides it is so much fun to open a new deck.

Have fun everyone and wish you all a grand slam walk off (unless you are playing me).

You can make a lot of PP with contact hitters but you have to commit to it. If you have a team scattered all across the spectrum with no actual plan in place and just using OVR, you will do poorly in achievements.

Dogberry99 · 11-26-2018, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

You can make a lot of PP with contact hitters but you have to commit to it. If you have a team scattered all across the spectrum with no actual plan in place and just using OVR, you will do poorly in achievements.

Honestly, I think that this, committing to one single strategy instead of building a more balanced team (or at least the perception that this is necessary), is why concern exists in the first place.

I'm not trying to pass judgement here, or determine whether the concerns are justified or overblown... but I think it helps to understand where the concerns are coming from.

Orcin · 11-26-2018, 05:44 PM

I have a balanced team and, in another thread, Markus said that I was way above average in generating points.

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Honestly, I think that this, committing to one single strategy instead of building a more balanced team (or at least the perception that this is necessary), is why concern exists in the first place.

I'm not trying to pass judgement here, or determine whether the concerns are justified or overblown... but I think it helps to understand where the concerns are coming from.

I believe I commented on the statement wondering if HR hitters are advantaged on PP earning and I explained that contact hitters can also earn a lot of PP if you go that route. Many players are playing a strategy of pitching and defense, with stealing, bunting, hit and running, etc. Does a combination work? Of course it does Whatever you do, you are going to need a sound strategy for your team or you will wallow in the rookie league enjoying the mediocrity that comes from no plan and no PP. The point being is you do not have to gather all the power hitters to earn PP; you can do so in different ways.

Have fun and good luck

11-10-2018, 03:12 PM	#42
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 14,054	Participatory ribbons should not merit reward. Success on the field should. If you want to pay out for every single W, however, you either have to slash all the other rewards to trivial amounts, or make the W payout so small as to be meaningless. Neither option sounds very desirable. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 95 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 * 2071 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

11-10-2018, 03:41 PM	#46
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 137	Daily login rewards are absolute garbage, period. I want to be logging in because I feel like playing the game, not because I have to in order not to fall behind other players. It's double garbage in Perfect Team's case because the game is specifically designed to be played completely hands-off if the player wishes. I do think that the current system does favor teams that are already doing well by a bit - to counterbalance, I would introduce negative achievements to the pool - like the Golden Sombrero achievement for a player striking out five times, or one for pitchers giving up back-to-back homeruns, or a Golden one for being on the receiving end of a no-hitter or perfect game. (It's possible this is already a thing, in which case disregard.) Last edited by Silfir; 11-10-2018 at 03:42 PM.

11-11-2018, 03:13 AM	#51
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	How about introducing some easy to make achievements that would only be awarded once a month? That way you're not flooding the market with PP, but a player can still see your counter moving a little even in those slow periods. Here are some monthly achievements that could possibly be added: 10 PP for individual win 10 PP for individual save 10 PP for two hit game 10 PP for two steal game 10 PP for a grand slam (regardless of situation) 10 PP for team that strikes out 10 batters 10 PP for team that gets 10 hits 10 PP for team that steals 3 bases 10 PP for two game team winning streak 10 PP for team that hits for cycle in game 50 PP for individual with 10 total bases 50 PP for team that scores 10 runs 50 PP for team shutout 10 PP for individual hit by pitch (You can name it RUB SOME DIRT ON IT) 10 PP for team not allowing a walk 10 PP for team throwing out two basestealers 10 PP for team not comitting an error 10 PP for team turning 2 double plays in a game 10 PP for team win in extra innings __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE Last edited by Dark Horse; 11-11-2018 at 03:14 AM.

11-10-2018, 03:27 PM	#45
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,883	Packs to build your team (draft and develop) and AH purchases (free agents) to fill the holes.

11-10-2018, 04:01 PM	#48
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 137	Who ever said anything about taking points away? I'm suggesting to award points for these "achievements". Not so many that it becomes a valid strategy to field "meme" teams designed specifically to tank an entire season to farm up these null-achievements, of course. Just as a means to make PP income feel less skewed towards rewarding already successful teams.

11-11-2018, 08:29 AM	#54
waylander Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 123	I think the core problem is there is only one way for a player to actively earn PP, and that is to buy them. Most systems offer two ways - paying or grinding. I play a lot of MUT and have a pretty competitive team without spending additional money on packs. To do so however, I have to log in every day and grind away to make sure I get the coin pack for the finishing the daily objectives. The problem with grinding systems though is it almost feels like a job at times, which isn't good either. Right now, I think Perfect Team is pretty fun. I'm not sure if I want another game where I feel obligated to log in every day and grind to ensure I don't miss out on my point earnings. I do see the argument on both sides....

11-24-2018, 04:05 PM	#55
ThrownOutAtHome Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 242	I rarely to never earn any decent amount of player points myself. I'm not upset and this is my first season. I'm 74-70 and tied for first in a weak division. My team does not have a real power hitter on it. Seems that teams that it HRs gain pps better. Is there some kind of chart so I can see how player points are earned? I heard that after the beta we will be able to earn player points in Challenge mode. Is that true? Either way I'm having a great time. After beta I'll most likely be one of the people to buy an occasional Gold pack. I'll never go crazy with real money but see no problem supporting the devs in buying occasional pps. Besides it is so much fun to open a new deck. Have fun everyone and wish you all a grand slam walk off (unless you are playing me).

11-26-2018, 08:50 AM	#56
sentry85 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: south Florida Posts: 83	my only concern is that the pp award system is skewed towards hitting. my light hitting and good pitching team was awarded far more pp's for hitting than pitching. my light hitting team did have a few really good games. it is also entirely possible that my pitchers were performing at an above average rate consistently and just not doing anything exceptional, to deserve points. If it turns out that my skew concern is true, there may be a path to add more awards for pitching which may deliver a more consistent flow of pp's. but, with only 1 season of data to look at, i cannot conclude that more pitching awards are even necessary

11-26-2018, 05:44 PM	#59
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,883	I have a balanced team and, in another thread, Markus said that I was way above average in generating points.