Injury *frequency* seems fine. Injury *intensity* seems way overboard

[malor]

Originally Posted by 5-4-3

If you want to get an idea about how prevalent MLB injuries actually are, visit https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/injuries/

5-4-3. Thank you for this link.

At a quick glance, I counted 10 players out for the season with each team having an average ~5 players each on the DL (I did no math, just a quick scan and judgement). That is ~150 players out with injuries that are on the DL at the point in time I looked. It does not count the DTD injuries for each team, which would probably increase by 2-3 per team. Keep in mind, we, the public, may not even hear about DTD injuries if the team does not say anything about it.

From these numbers, I think the OOTP High Realistic setting is extremely close to MLB numbers and may even be a little low. I won't speak to type of injuries and their rates at all as that requires a lot of detailed data that is simply not available to us common people.

I will add, if your team is experiencing a lot of injuries, 1st hire the best trainer you can and 2nd, get rid of as many Fragile and Wrecked players you can from your roster. That will minimize the injuries you will personally see. If you attempt to field a team of fragile players, expect to see them spend a lot of time on the DL. That is afterall, the point of designating them fragile or wrecked. They have a history of injuries and will continue to just get worse. If you sign them to big money, you really are paying them to sit on the DL a lot.

[Qeltar]

Okay I lied, sorry, one more post, but it's at least back to the topic.

In addition to the several guys who have suffered season-ending injuries in spring training in my game already, I just advanced a day and in my inbox were three more. Two of them prime arms -- Vazquez and Carlos Martinez, both 27 -- gone for the season, on the same day, plus another lesser pitcher, who is 25. Yeah, this happens all the time in MLB.

At this pace it will be on the order of 20 MLB players gone for the season before the season even starts.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Okay I lied, sorry, one more post, but it's at least back to the topic.

In addition to the several guys who have suffered season-ending injuries in spring training in my game already, I just advanced a day and in my inbox were three more. Two of them prime arms -- Vazquez and Carlos Martinez, both 27 -- gone for the season, on the same day, plus another lesser pitcher, who is 25. Yeah, this happens all the time in MLB.

At this pace it will be on the order of 20 MLB players gone for the season before the season even starts.

Show us your DL.

[The Yurpman]

Playing as the Red Sox I lost Sale, Price, and Pomeranz for the entire season within the first two weeks of the regular season. It is what it is. I've also had years where I don't lose any ML players for the season. Personally, I'm not interested in changing the injury settings or anything being discussed in this thread, but I would just simply say that using a single year (or even two years) is a really small sample size to say that long term injuries are an issue with the game. Just my two pennies.

[bigd51]

Originally Posted by The Yurpman

Playing as the Red Sox I lost Sale, Price, and Pomeranz for the entire season within the first two weeks of the regular season. It is what it is. I've also had years where I don't lose any ML players for the season. Personally, I'm not interested in changing the injury settings or anything being discussed in this thread, but I would just simply say that using a single year (or even two years) is a really small sample size to say that long term injuries are an issue with the game. Just my two pennies.

I've come to just accept it as well, even at default settings (I've been too scared to switch it to High/Realistic, although I'm coming around to trying it).

One year, I lose half my pitching staff. The next year, I lead the league in starter and bullpen ERA w/ a healthy one. As a new player, it sucks seeing it happen because it feels like it's only happening to you... but it's not. It's just some years you get F'd and the next you don't.

Also, for what it's worth about longtime guys saying to search the forums for older posts... try to understand, the search function isn't as accommodating as you make it out to be. Just searching "injury frequency" set to "show threads" pulls up the list below...

Some people just simply may not know exactly what they're looking for. I've run into multiple instances where I didn't know which question to ask. And considering all the variables built into this game, anything can change from one year to another. So it's not too far out of line for new players to ask questions or try and make observations to help out the forums that you've all heard 1,000 times over and for new players to get a feel for the overall nature of the personalities on here.

All's I'm saying is to cut some of us newbs some slack

[The Yurpman]

Originally Posted by bigd51

I've come to just accept it as well, even at default settings (I've been too scared to switch it to High/Realistic, although I'm coming around to trying it).

One year, I lose half my pitching staff. The next year, I lead the league in starter and bullpen ERA w/ a healthy one. As a new player, it sucks seeing it happen because it feels like it's only happening to you... but it's not. It's just some years you get F'd and the next you don't.

Also, for what it's worth about longtime guys saying to search the forums for older posts... try to understand, the search function isn't as accommodating as you make it out to be. Just searching "injury frequency" set to "show threads" pulls up the list below...

Some people just simply may not know exactly what they're looking for. I've run into multiple instances where I didn't know which question to ask. And considering all the variables built into this game, anything can change from one year to another. So it's not too far out of line for new players to ask questions or try and make observations to help out the forums that you've all heard 1,000 times over and for new players to get a feel for the overall nature of the personalities on here.

All's I'm saying is to cut some of us newbs some slack

Yeah I just keep it at whatever the default setting is when starting a new game. I'm nearing the end of my first season with the Red Sox and those three guys I mentioned that had season ending injuries in the first week of the season (Sale, Price, Pomeranz) were the only ML guys on my team to have their season completely wiped out. I think in the end it all balances out. You kind of have to look at the big picture. I've been playing since OOTP 12 and I've never thought the injuries were ever unrealistic to the point that I wanted to change text files and such. My advice to all would be, just let things play out. One season you might be the luckiest, healthiest team and the next you could lose five SP. It's happened to anyone here who has played this game long enough.

[5-4-3]

Originally Posted by malor

5-4-3. Thank you for this link.

You’re welcome. As the sign in my office reads, “If you don’t have hard data then all you have is an opinion.”

A couple of things. There’s a thing in science called the clustering illusion: “The clustering illusion is the tendency to erroneously consider the inevitable ‘streaks’ or ‘clusters’ arising in small samples from random distributions to be non-random.” This can happen with baseball injuries and it makes people swear that their team is cursed (or blessed) or makes them see coincidental random events as not being random. Human beings hate randomness and always look for patterns, but as was brought up by someone else, some seasons you eat the injury bear and some seasons he eats you. In the long run it all evens out, but we rarely get to see the long run.

Noobs and veterans on any internet subject board always have problems. The veterans believe that they have the answers, that this same argument has taken place over and over again and has been settled, that noobs haven’t searched the archives properly, and that noobs have no useful new data or ideas. Some of the veterans are devoted company fanboys and will brook no criticism of the game designers; some may even appoint themselves as vigilante policemen. That’s a dangerous complacency, and it can run off new users who could be major contributors in the future. Do what you like, but a less hostility (I saw it in this thread myself) and more tolerance can go a long way to making any internet subject board a better and more inclusive community. Remember: today’s noob might be 2023’s grizzled veteran - or he maybe he could have been, if the veterans had been a little more accepting and friendlier. So my suggestion is that everybody lighten up. You are, of course, welcome to ignore it, but I hope that you don’t.

[Qeltar]

5-4-3.. good thoughts. I have 25+ years on discussion forums and I've seen it all, many times. It's fine.

FWIW, this wasn't me whining about my own team. I'm talking about the league as a whole. It was last year that I had two season-enders (and both right after I hired the best and most expensive trainer available.) I did write this off as just bad luck. But even then I noticed how many other teams had these on a regular basis.

In the last 2 days there have been 2 more season-ending injuries reported in my inbox. That's 5 in the span of 4 days, and I believe brings the total to 10 for about half of spring training.

Clustering? Confirmation bias? Maybe. I'll be keeping track. But there are, right now, 40 MLB players on the DL recovering from major injuries, some from this year, some from last. That's what, double the number in actual MLB right now? Statistically, it should be near the low-water mark as there's been gameplay in only 3 weeks out of the last 4-5 months, meaning more healing than new injuries should be occurring in that time. I can only imagine what it's going to look like in August.

People can choose to interpret that data how they wish, but people wanted data, and there it is.

[stealofhome]

One thing to note is that in OOTP as in real life, there are more injuries in spring training than there are once the season gets going.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by 5-4-3

Noobs and veterans on any internet subject board always have problems. The veterans believe that they have the answers, that this same argument has taken place over and over again and has been settled, that noobs haven’t searched the archives properly, and that noobs have no useful new data or ideas.

What are the noob problems?

[Qeltar]

Originally Posted by stealofhome

One thing to note is that in OOTP as in real life, there are more injuries in spring training than there are once the season gets going.

Thanks, I did wonder if that might be programmed into the game in some way.

Has this been confirmed by the developers? If specific mention were made of this in the manual, it would probably help people be a bit more prepared for the onslaught.

[BBGiovanni]

If I put anyone off with my tone, I apologize, I really just meant to say that this is talked about annually with the same results. I usually post from my phone these days so finding and posting links is a pain. Next time I think of it I'll try to find links to put in my original post to some of those for future readers of this thread.

[5-4-3]

Originally Posted by Orcin

What are the noob problems?

Not what, who. The veterans.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by stealofhome

One thing to note is that in OOTP as in real life, there are more injuries in spring training than there are once the season gets going.

Maybe so. But if one compares the number of players on the real-life MLB disabled list as of the opening of the regular season and as of August 31st of a season, the latter number is higher.

[5-4-3]

The next time you’re thinking (or whining) about how your team’s DL is large and/or unrealistic, remember that the Los Angeles Dodgers’ DL as of right now includes the following players:

C. Kershaw SP
A. Wood SP
R. Hill SP
H. Ryu SP
J. Urias SP
T. Koehler SP
L. Forsythe 2B
C. Seager SS
J. Turner 3B
Y. Puig RF

[5-4-3]

Originally Posted by 5-4-3

C. Kershaw SP
A. Wood SP
R. Hill SP
H. Ryu SP
J. Urias SP
T. Koehler SP
L. Forsythe 2B
C. Seager SS
J. Turner 3B
Y. Puig RF

That’s the starting rotation less Maeda, three of the four starting infielders, and one of the three starting outfielders, including at least four of the best five players on the team.

[slic1149]

There are six separate injury settings, and injuries can be turned off completely. I'm not sure what else is necessary. If your team gets nailed with a ton of injuries it is painful. If it happens too much consider changing the setting.

FWIW, any league from the teens to thirties I use extremely low, forties to sixties very low, seventies to nineties low, and for modern teams I use OOTP classic. Since I can play the game any way I wish, I don't use the top two injury settings.

This allows me to mix enjoyment with a semblance of realism. This may not satisfy anyone but me. But in my case I have stopped obsessing about injuries, and I enjoy trying to put together a team designed to handle an excess of them.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Okay I lied, sorry, one more post, but it's at least back to the topic.

In addition to the several guys who have suffered season-ending injuries in spring training in my game already, I just advanced a day and in my inbox were three more. Two of them prime arms -- Vazquez and Carlos Martinez, both 27 -- gone for the season, on the same day, plus another lesser pitcher, who is 25. Yeah, this happens all the time in MLB.

At this pace it will be on the order of 20 MLB players gone for the season before the season even starts.

Most, or at least a plurality, of the big ugly season ending type injuries in the game come in the first few days of spring training. This in and of itself isn't all that far off from real life; I look to the Mariners' own issue with Tony Zych this year as one example, and the effect comes at least in part from an internal "rest/rust" rating the game uses that's similar to one that was in Front Page Sports Baseball back in the day. Basically the first few games a player has after a long layoff of any kind are the most "dangerous" for them in terms of injury risk.

Long story short, pay less attention to how many injuries your team has right now and pay more to how many they had when the season is over. My own experience is that High Realistic Modern Day is really, really close to, well, the modern day injury rates. I agree that they're way higher than what you'll see in virtually any other video game but as has been pointed out, this comes from a lot of data (and, if there's any sense of defensiveness here, and I'm not sure there is, the higher injury rates were the result of OOTP *players* tinkering with the game engine and saying "hey Markus, here are some, stats that indicate that these events don't happen often enough").

[5-4-3]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

My own experience is that High Realistic Modern Day is really, really close to, well, the modern day injury rates.

This is also my own experience, and I play modern day OOTP and also check the real life MLB injury reports regularly as well.

Imagine if today’s Dodgers were your team in OOTP and had the real life Iinjury list and DL. How would you feel about that? What would you be posting about it?

[Mat]

Originally Posted by Qeltar

But there are, right now, 40 MLB players on the DL recovering from major injuries, some from this year, some from last. That's what, double the number in actual MLB right now? Statistically, it should be near the low-water mark as there's been gameplay in only 3 weeks out of the last 4-5 months, meaning more healing than new injuries should be occurring in that time. I can only imagine what it's going to look like in August.

People can choose to interpret that data how they wish, but people wanted data, and there it is.

You are close.. real MLB is currently at 176 on the DL.