A request to the developers: Add Females

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by pilight

Title Bout includes women and has its namefile in the same format as OOTP. It is also defaulted to 40 namesets. That game managed to be programmed for 40 male and 40 female sets, so OOTP should be adjustable to accommodate.

Yeah, and FHM has 100 namesets. But that still doesn't mean that OOTP right now can accommodate more than 40.

[chucksabr]

Why do we not see the best female athletes regularly competing with the best male athletes in golf, tennis, bowling, track and field, volleyball, basketball, or speed skating? These are all well-established sports for women, as well as for men. If the ability of women to compete at the same exact speed and strength level as men depends only on the circumstance that females start their sport as early as the males do, and that they grow up to attain the optimal physical stature their sex allows, shouldn't there be a cohort of top female athletes in each of these sports that are just as fast, just as strong and just as accomplished as the top male athletes, and thus be able to compete with one another on an even basis?

Since we don't see this today, is it only cultural sexism, and no other factor, that prevents this from occurring?

[kq76]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

Why do we not see the best female athletes regularly competing with the best male athletes in golf, tennis, bowling, track and field, volleyball, basketball, or speed skating? These are all well-established sports for women, as well as for men. If the ability of women to compete at the same exact speed and strength level as men depends only on the circumstance that females start their sport as early as the males do, and that they grow up to attain the optimal physical stature their sex allows, shouldn't there be a cohort of top female athletes in each of these sports that are just as fast, just as strong and just as accomplished as the top male athletes, and thus be able to compete with one another on an even basis?

Since we don't see this today, is it only cultural sexism, and no other factor, that prevents this from occurring?

Is there really an avenue for them to do this though? I don't think a female pro golf or tennis player can just say to the male tours, "okay, I'm going to play on your tour now". If they did, they'd probably be laughed at and told, "honey, your place is over there". It's interesting how much that sounds like being told where the coloured washrooms are. Have there even ever been any news stories of top level women wanting to cross over to the men's tour? Billie Jean King maybe? I don't know.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by kq76

Is there really an avenue for them to do this though? I don't think a female pro golf or tennis player can just say to the male tours, "okay, I'm going to play on your tour now". If they did, they'd probably be laughed at and told, "honey, your place is over there". It's interesting how much that sounds like being told where the coloured washrooms are. Have there even ever been any news stories of top level women wanting to cross over to the men's tour? Billie Jean King maybe? I don't know.

I agree with you that there has traditionally been a lack of avenue for women to compete in "men's" leagues, although I don't think hardly anyone would be saying "honey, the kitchen's over there" here in 2016.

In any event, my main question is whether there is a cohort of top female athletes in each of these sports that are just as fast, just as strong and just as powerful as the top male athletes, so they would be able to compete with one another on an even basis? If there isn't one, why isn't there?

[kq76]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

I agree with you that there has traditionally been a lack of avenue for women to compete in "men's" leagues, although I don't think hardly anyone would be saying "honey, the kitchen's over there" here in 2016.

Have you not heard of Indian Wells CEO Raymond Moore this year? There are plenty of people out there like that, they just typically aren't so stupid as to publicly state their beliefs.

Originally Posted by chucksabr

In any event, my main question is whether there is a cohort of top female athletes in each of these sports that are just as fast, just as strong and just as powerful as the top male athletes, so they would be able to compete with one another on an even basis? If there isn't one, why isn't there?

I think Serena Williams could probably do well against the men. I'd be impressed if she could win a major tournament, but I definitely think she could take out some of the men outside of the top 3 or 4. While she does lose occasionally, she's pretty clearly in a league of her own on the WTA.

And I don't know much about golf, but it doesn't strike me as a game where you absolutely need the strength of a man. Sure, it helps on drives, but it seems like having nerves of steel is more important. I seem to remember there being some talk that Annika Sörenstam could probably hold her own against the men if she wanted to.

Coming back to baseball, I definitely think girls being pushed into softball instead of baseball is a huge hurdle. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first woman MLBer comes from outside the USA, like that French girl someone linked to, only because in probably most other countries there is no softball option as baseball is already a niche sport there. As it is now though, without them playing the same sport, it's like MJ trying to play baseball. Sure, he was a legendary athlete and loved baseball, but it's pretty hard to go pro unless you've been consistently and competitively playing the sport up until then.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by kq76

Is there really an avenue for them to do this though? I don't think a female pro golf or tennis player can just say to the male tours, "okay, I'm going to play on your tour now".

I don't know about tennis, but women can certainly compete in the PGA.

As for whether the women would be welcome to tee off with the men in the future, the PGA's executive vice president of communications, Ty Votaw, said, "While no woman has attempted to compete in a PGA Tour event recently, PGA Tour regulations do not preclude women from participating in tour events."

Link

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by kq76

Have you not heard of Indian Wells CEO Raymond Moore this year? There are plenty of people out there like that, they just typically aren't so stupid as to publicly state their beliefs.



I think Serena Williams could probably do well against the men. I'd be impressed if she could win a major tournament, but I definitely think she could take out some of the men outside of the top 3 or 4. While she does lose occasionally, she's pretty clearly in a league of her own on the WTA.

And I don't know much about golf, but it doesn't strike me as a game where you absolutely need the strength of a man. Sure, it helps on drives, but it seems like having nerves of steel is more important. I seem to remember there being some talk that Annika Sörenstam could probably hold her own against the men if she wanted to.

Coming back to baseball, I definitely think girls being pushed into softball instead of baseball is a huge hurdle. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first woman MLBer comes from outside the USA, like that French girl someone linked to, only because in probably most other countries there is no softball option as baseball is already a niche sport there. As it is now though, without them playing the same sport, it's like MJ trying to play baseball. Sure, he was a legendary athlete and loved baseball, but it's pretty hard to go pro unless you've been consistently and competitively playing the sport up until then.

So circling back to my question, it sounds like you believe that there could be a cohort of top female athletes that is just as fast, just as strong and just as powerful as the cohort of top male athletes, and able to compete with men on an even basis, but that only sexism is stopping that from happening. Do I have that right?

[kq76]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by cohort. If you mean a couple dozen, no. If you mean a few, yes. I also don't think it's likely that they can be just as fast, just as strong, etc, but I do think there can be the odd one, two, or three that could be competitive (i.e. not embarrass themselves) among the men. It would depend on the sport and role of course (e.g. anything that takes max strength is probably a no go). And I do believe sexism is probably holding them back.

It's interesting what Joe posted and I'd love to see a woman join the PGA, but even if they're not officially prohibited, I have to imagine they would be unofficially unwelcome by a lot of people, players, fans, and management. Still, maybe one day one woman will be headstrong enough and just go for it. I'd hope she'd be the very best at her sport though so she has the best chance at being competitive otherwise it might set them back even further. I'd be very curious to hear whether past top women athletes had considered it and why they chose not to.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by kq76

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by cohort. If you mean a couple dozen, no. If you mean a few, yes. I also don't think it's likely that they can be just as fast, just as strong, etc, but I do think there can be the odd one, two, or three that could be competitive (i.e. not embarrass themselves) among the men. It would depend on the sport and role of course (e.g. anything that takes max strength is probably a no go). And I do believe sexism is probably holding them back.

A cohort is a collection of people that is treated as a group for a specific purpose. In this case, it would mean, for instance, the top 1% of female athletes taken against the top 1% of male athletes. What I was asking was, is it only sexism bred into our culture that keeps the top 1% of females athletically inferior to the top 1% of male athletes? Or is it a clear physical limitation of the female sex versus the male sex that cannot be overcome?

Sounds like you agree with me that it's not just sexism, that there is a physical reason as well. I don't think any reasonable person could argue that the cohort of the top 1% of female athletes is equal in speed, strength, and power to the cohort of the top 1% of male athletes, and practically everyone would agree they will not be equal in the foreseeable future. Maybe in tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years women will evolve to equal status with men in size, strength and speed, but we won't be here to see that.

I am piqued by your statement that there could be that "odd one, two, or three that could be competitive (i.e. not embarrass themselves) among the men", depending on the sport. I would agree that in certain sports, women who are, forgive the term, "freaks of nature" could compete against men, and maybe even eke out a living. Is Serena Williams an example of this? Perhaps. She's considered by many to be just such a physical "freak". We could debate whether she would be 4th or 5th in the world among men, as you believe, or more like 40th or 400th, but boy, would I love to see her playing a top male player while she is still at her peak, so we could see how she measures up.

I think the less speed and strength are a factor in the sport, the more likely the best women at it could be competitive with the best men. Because of this, I don't think baseball is that sport. Speed and strength are both very important in the game, everywhere: at bat, on the bases, in the field and on the mound. I can't help but believe that your example of the 5' 9", 150 pound best-baseball-playing woman imaginable would be completely overwhelmed by the speed and power of the major league game. Hell, every year thousands of men much, much larger, faster and stronger than that are overwhelmed by the speed and power of the game several levels below the major leagues and end up plateauing at best, and more likely going backwards, aging out, or quitting.

Even at pitcher, the one position at which everyone (including me) agrees that a woman would have the best chance of making a major league team, the physical challenge of performing at a legitimate major league level is simply too great. The highest recorded speed by a woman pitching is 82 MPH. That's a lot faster than I can throw, and maybe faster than you can, too. But compared to current big league pitchers, it is not only some 10% slower than the average fastball, but it is also slower than the average cutter, slider, split finger and even changeup.

Think about that for a minute: the fastest pitch ever recorded by a female is still slower than the average major league changeup!

I think the bottom line is this: for a woman to even get to the major leagues in the first place, she is going to have to do more than just "not embarrass" herself to make it. She is going to have to be one of the best 750 baseball players in the world, out of tens of millions of people who actively play, at any given time. Believe me when I say I would love to see it happen, and I know some people in this thread are going to be pissed at me to laying it all out like this, but I think it's just too tall an order to fill to find even one who can make even the last spot in the bullpen.

Originally Posted by kq76

It's interesting what Joe posted and I'd love to see a woman join the PGA, but even if they're not officially prohibited, I have to imagine they would be unofficially unwelcome by a lot of people, players, fans, and management. Still, maybe one day one woman will be headstrong enough and just go for it. I'd hope she'd be the very best at her sport though so she has the best chance at being competitive otherwise it might set them back even further. I'd be very curious to hear whether past top women athletes had considered it and why they chose not to.

It's interesting you mentioned Annika Sörenstam earlier, and your desire to see a woman someday play in the PGA, apparently not realizing that Sörenstam did precisely that. She was the #1 ranked woman golfer in the world when amid a good deal of discussion in the media, the PGA invited her to play in a PGA tournament in 2003. The result: she tied for 96th out of the 111 who finished the first two rounds, and missed the cut.

[pilight]

Whether women could compete with men should have no bearing on whether OOTP adds an option for women. I know I would like to be able to create a fictional women's baseball league.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by pilight

Whether women could compete with men should have no bearing on whether OOTP adds an option for women. I know I would like to be able to create a fictional women's baseball league.

You can do that now. So it says he vs she.

[TheMaus2]

Originally Posted by Pirates

Instead of women why not add midgets. One actually played in the majors.

Only one midget has ever played in a major league baseball game, and his name was Eddie Gaedel. Three foot seven and weighing in at just 65 pounds, Gaedel was a surprise pinch-hitter in a St. Louis Browns double header, wearing a uniform with the number 1/8

It's simple. You can edit a little person's physicals into any player right now. Fallacy much?

+1 for a feature where you can input an average player's physical for a league

Although I'd to see a female ballplayers in my leagues, this is something to add after other things (like being able to mess with how many innings you can play in regulation)

[The Game]

Originally Posted by TheMaus2

It's simple. You can edit a little person's physicals into any player right now. Fallacy much?

+1 for a feature where you can input an average player's physical for a league

Although I'd to see a female ballplayers in my leagues, this is something to add after other things (like being able to mess with how many innings you can play in regulation)

I change players from male physiques to female physiques often . The He/she his/her thing no longer bothers me. I also change several players from human to wookie standards. Thats the great thing about photos and FG.

[RANGER11JP]

Didn't we have a set of female first names way back when players were having wives and sons showing up in the league? I think I have it somewhere.

Based on recent events, we'll need to create a litany of story lines base on inappropriate behavior.

(...was released for a CAREER ENDING ACCUSATION)

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by kq76

I think Serena Williams could probably do well against the men. I'd be impressed if she could win a major tournament, but I definitely think she could take out some of the men outside of the top 3 or 4. While she does lose occasionally, she's pretty clearly in a league of her own on the WTA.

She already played against a man. Her and Venus challenged a guy who was ranked 200 once, in a casual game, and he beat them both very easily.

If a woman could compete at an elite level in baseball, she would be considered a huge potential draw. She'd be drawn into the system, not pulled out. I remember a while ago, I think it was the Diamondbacks, who had a female pitcher from Japan in their system. I also remember her bread and butter pitch was some kind of breaking ball that was clocked at 57 mph. Do MLB teams often sign men who can't crack 60 mph into their systems?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

She already played against a man. Her and Venus challenged a guy who was ranked 200 once, in a casual game, and he beat them both very easily.

If a woman could compete at an elite level in baseball, she would be considered a huge potential draw. She'd be drawn into the system, not pulled out. I remember a while ago, I think it was the Diamondbacks, who had a female pitcher from Japan in their system. I also remember her bread and butter pitch was some kind of breaking ball that was clocked at 57 mph. Do MLB teams often sign men who can't crack 60 mph into their systems?

Shingo Takatsu, 2004-05 White Sox. Now his fastball was around 83 but his offspeed pitch was around 53. Never seen that before.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by The Game

Shingo Takatsu, 2004-05 White Sox. Now his fastball was around 83 but his offspeed pitch was around 53. Never seen that before.

Then you never saw Jon Jay pitch.

[Padreman]

No women

[TheMaus2]

lol

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

Why do we not see the best female athletes regularly competing with the best male athletes in golf, tennis, bowling, track and field, volleyball, basketball, or speed skating? These are all well-established sports for women, as well as for men. If the ability of women to compete at the same exact speed and strength level as men depends only on the circumstance that females start their sport as early as the males do, and that they grow up to attain the optimal physical stature their sex allows, shouldn't there be a cohort of top female athletes in each of these sports that are just as fast, just as strong and just as accomplished as the top male athletes, and thus be able to compete with one another on an even basis?

Since we don't see this today, is it only cultural sexism, and no other factor, that prevents this from occurring?

Uhh, Lexi Thompson just competed in a golf team event last week... And they were 3 shots out of 1st after 3 rounds...