Team Chemistry screen

[malor]

Bru,

Do you have any explanation for why the list changed? The GM/Manger needs some feedback as two why things change in the game. If we don't know why the team chemistry is changing, why should we even turn it on and let it affect our games without control?

I've been use personality/morale since it was added to the game, but I'm really struggling with this version to determine how it impacts the game results. There is simply not enough detail provided for the end user to determine how changes might impact their organization/team.

I'm not a fan of black boxes within games. The player needs to be provided enough info either directly in game, or via reference tables in the manual that explain how changes might affect the game. I want to play the game, not have the game play me.

Thanks,
Malor

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Yes, I tend to agree, after reading a few other posts. Look, maybe it's supposed to mirror human nature to some extent. Some conflicts may be obvious as to origin (now that I see the "favor veterans/easygoing" thing, I can understand a bit better and watch out) and some can be puzzling and unknowable (such as Davis not liking 33-year-old leader Puente, and vice versa). As in real life, a GM would have a clue on the one hand and be scratching his head on the other.

Personalities in the game, as IRL, don't always work the way you think they will. Ever introduce two people you think will hit it off and you can't figure out why they don't? Or vice versa?

Maybe Davis doesn't care for Puente's style of leadership, thinks Puente is encroaching on things that are the coaches' jobs. Maybe one of them said something that was misinterpreted. Maybe five years ago, that coach was the one that got Puente's cousin released from rookie ball, and Puente (being a loyal guy) holds a grudge.

A personality model that was clear, explicable and logical would be doing a terrible job of modeling actual human relationships.

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

This is interesting (compare with post #6). Three games into the season after a good spring, three wins in a row, and the lineup for and against the Bench Coach has changed. Some guys have dropped off both lists, some guys have joined, and Hooten has changed sides!

Sounds like real life...

I can't find confirmation of this, but I believe the "good/bad relationship" designations are relative terms, not absolute. That is, even if things are awesome, it will still list a few guys under "bad relationship." Maybe the guys who just say they like the manager, instead of loving him.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by malor

The Option should default to "ON". Players should be forced to turn things "OFF". Options left "OFF" by default become options people (especially new players) don't even notice exist, or result in multiple questions about why space under a heading is blank.

Malor

This option or all options? I would agree this option should be on by default. I could also argue it shouldn't even be an option but should just be there if you use personalities. I mean why, if you have them on, would you not want it shown on the player card? It's not like the space is used for something else, it's just left empty.

Now if you think all options should be on by default and have to be turned off then I disagree. League evolution comes to mind. A new player is happily living in his current MLB baseball world only to wake up and find out his favorite team has moved or the mound has been raised etc. and then has to figure out how to fix it or restart. Not a cool situation for a purist that thought he was getting a MLB simulation.

[eck.nicholas]

I think it would be better if all positive influences where in one side of the Player Classes bar, while all negative influences on the other.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by malor

Bru,

Do you have any explanation for why the list changed? The GM/Manger needs some feedback as two why things change in the game. If we don't know why the team chemistry is changing, why should we even turn it on and let it affect our games without control?

I've been use personality/morale since it was added to the game, but I'm really struggling with this version to determine how it impacts the game results. There is simply not enough detail provided for the end user to determine how changes might impact their organization/team.

I'm not a fan of black boxes within games. The player needs to be provided enough info either directly in game, or via reference tables in the manual that explain how changes might affect the game. I want to play the game, not have the game play me.

Thanks,
Malor

I agree with you, Malor, in everything you said here. Compare this lineup, now, with what I posted in #19. This is one day later, another win (we're 4-0), and now we have more players shifting around on these lists.

My hope now is that this really does not mean anything and has little or no effect on the game. It does not look good, shifting like this in just four game days.

[eck.nicholas]

Maybe they were players who didn't have the coach last season...after a few games, everyone would have an idea on personality and if it would meld with you (the player).

[malor]

Bru,

Thanks for the reply. Once I'm able to play my league from OOTP18, I will check this screen every few days to see how things move around.

I did read the new online manual last night. It mentions this screen is simply a summary of what was/is available in game on various screens and via email feedback from the Bench Coach and unhappy players. It was designed to make it one stop view. I interpret the documentation to mean that team chemistry/morale have very little effect overall and that only when you have personality clashes or a very unhappy player.

I suggest everyone read the "Team Chemistry" page in the manual for a quick overview.

Malor

[malor]

Originally Posted by eck.nicholas

Maybe they were players who didn't have the coach last season...after a few games, everyone would have an idea on personality and if it would meld with you (the player).

That is probably very close to what is happening. I would still like to see more information published so we would know for sure if this is correct.

It is difficult to use a feature if you don't understand how it impacts/interacts with the game and what the presented information it is trying to communicate to the player.

Thanks,
Malor

[Avindian]

Originally Posted by Orcin

There is a personality view that will show the roles.

I delete the pre-set views right away; I don't find them helpful. There's the one with the smiley faces, but I have no idea how to interpret those.

[drhay53]

Originally Posted by Avindian

I delete the pre-set views right away; I don't find them helpful. There's the one with the smiley faces, but I have no idea how to interpret those.

One of the categories that you can click in the custom views is their personality.

[eck.nicholas]

Originally Posted by Avindian

I delete the pre-set views right away; I don't find them helpful. There's the one with the smiley faces, but I have no idea how to interpret those.

The smiley faces in general tell you their overall mood. If a player had the Red angry face, I tend to click on them to see the overall personality issue. Most of the time, I've encountered a player unhappy with their role. Sometimes it can be team record.

[drhay53]

FWIW, I also believe the manager relationships has something to do with how good the manager is at coaching that type of player. For instance, I looked into the editor and my manager would make a heck of a pitching coach, although he's not great at fielding, baserunning, and hitting.

On the team chemistry page, all of his good relationships are pitchers, and all of his bad ones are position players.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by drhay53

FWIW, I also believe the manager relationships has something to do with how good the manager is at coaching that type of player. For instance, I looked into the editor and my manager would make a heck of a pitching coach, although he's not great at fielding, baserunning, and hitting.

On the team chemistry page, all of his good relationships are pitchers, and all of his bad ones are position players.

Thanks. I'm looking for some rationality and some consistency, in case this does have a significant impact on game results. I am a bit disturbed by the volatility so far, as shown in posts #6, #19, and #25. That calls into question whether there is something that can be reasoned, anticipated, and understood about manager-player relationships as reported on this screen.

[Avindian]

Originally Posted by drhay53

One of the categories that you can click in the custom views is their personality.

I found that approximately 10 seconds before you posted. Thanks for your help!

[Orcin]

I hope team chemistry has some impact on team results. I think it will give me an advantage. It's not hard to manage. The key is getting a team captain.

[drhay53]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I hope team chemistry has some impact on team results. I think it will give me an advantage. It's not hard to manage. The key is getting a team captain.

I would say the key is winning, but the team captain sure helps

[Orcin]

Winning sure helps!

[Déjà Bru]

I must have done a good job screening these guys in my inaugural draft. The team is "Ecstatic"!

Now it's like the chicken/egg question. My team is in first place by plenty. I mean, plenty.

Are these guys ecstatic because they are playing well and winning or are they playing well and winning because they are ecstatic?

That's a serious question which maybe I should phrase better. Does a team do well when team chemistry is good or is team chemistry improved by winning?

The answer is probably "Both."

[clamel]

Am I totally wrong about this Chemistry and the whole Personality and morale ??

It's all for the fantasy players and not very true playing the game with the real players or in historical mode.

Basically it's Markus (or just AI) fantasy settings on those real players which makes it not very real. Since these "factors" play a part on how a player perform the performance of real players are affected even more than the basic differences.
Afraid that even the real managers in the game in some cases doesn't look to have tactics and ideas as they do in real life.
Messing around with how a person is in mind is playing with fire, even if it's adding a cool extra twist to the game.

[Déjà Bru]

Yes, it is presumed that a player of real MLB or historical recreations will want all of these options turned off.