Baseball Brawls: Do You Want More or Less?

[kq76]

After the Jays-Rangers brawl the other day (you've most likely seen it already, but if not here it is), I wonder how fans feel about them. I'll admit, part of me likes seeing the passion, it is exciting, but another part of me thinks it's 2016, we're supposed to be more civilized, we're supposed to set better examples. Perhaps the worst part is these teams are going to be without some brawl participants for some future games.

I think I would feel better about this particular incident if it happened purely as a result of what happened during that one game. But surely this happened due to lingering upset feelings from last year and I'm not sure why, but somehow that makes a difference for me. Perhaps it's because if it happened inside of one game it's probably more about wanting to win the game whereas this is pretty clearly about feeling disrespected. It was even worse in this game because the Rangers could have lost the game by putting Bautista on and I don't think you should jeopardize a win today over hurt feelings from a year ago.

What say you: would you rather see more or less brawls in baseball?

If I'm honest with myself, I think I'd have to say more just because they are exciting to see, but I also think I'd get sick of them real fast if there were too many.

What about in OOTP, if there was a setting of none, very few (current MLB?), a few, or more than a few, what would you set it at? In OOTP I think I'd want it at even more than a few because, well, it's not real life, no one's getting hurt, no one's setting a bad example. There'd be more suspensions, but that'd be fine as there'd be more for all teams.

[Airdrop01]

Odor is now one of my favorites. That was a real punch versus most baseball "fights."

[Whoofe]

i'd like to see less attempts to intentionally injure other players - whether it be by pitch or by slide

the fighting itself generally ends up being mostly harmless by comparison

[PotatoPeeler]

I could watch this on repeat for an hour. I certainly didn't mind seeing that bat flipping clown get punched in the face.

https://twitter.com/CauldronICYMI/st...73058395815941

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

I could watch this on repeat for an hour. I certainly didn't mind seeing that bat flipping clown get punched in the face.

https://twitter.com/CauldronICYMI/st...73058395815941

Yes, cause violence is always a good solution. Don't like somebody else's actions - oh that's easy to fix - just punch them in the face. Great way to carry yourself. Really gives the sport a good name too.

They're both clowns who should be suspended for about 20 games each. Of course that's the other part of the problem, lack of guts by the powers that be to actually do something about this immature childish behavior. Too much inconsistency from one suspension to the next. No message ever gets sent.

[rudel.dietrich]

Less, a lot less
I don't like violence in any sport except boxing and MMA but even they have rules to try and prevent serious injury.


I don't think baseball players should be perfect citizens. Scuffles are going to happen and the laughable bench clearing incidents are going to happen with a lot of talking and a lot of grabbing.


But this was serious. This was a close fist punch that connected. First off, Baustista took a hard shot.
This entire conversation would be different if he had sustained an injury. If he had broken his jaw, nose, teeth, fractured an eye socket or suffered a concussion.


We seem to universally agree pitchers should not throw at batters heads nor should players use the bat as a weapon.
I don't think we should condone punching each other either.


I am hoping for a harsh sentence.
The NBA had a terrible problem with player violence in the 70s and early 80s until they cracked down hard on even minor infractions.
Now they perhaps over police but I would prefer that to letting serious incidents break out.
Injuries are bad enough. You don't need them from player vs player violence


And I realize sports is not an ordinary work place.
But it sort of is. Athletes are employees employed by franchises which belong to a corporation.


I cannot think of any business where one employee can strike another in the face with their fist and keep their job.


I am hoping the suspension if 20+ games
Send a message that this sort of thing is not condoned

EDIT: I will admit I did not see the entire incident. I did see Jose get into his face and shove him. I would give him 3-5 games for that.
If he had walked away and de escalated the situation then this would not have happened.

[Airdrop01]

Bautista is an entitled little punk. He didn't like that he got HBP. He admitted he slid VERY late to "send a message." He didn't even hit the ground until he was on top of the bag. He actually made a fist first.

He is a general punk. I'm sure Odor will get the worst of it because that's what it looks like at a glance and because Bautista got trucked. But that doesn't change the fact that the true cause of this entire thing is Bautista and no one else. Just because he got trucked in response to his intentional (by his own admission), dangerous and potentially career threatening act, OUTSIDE OF THE CLEAR RULES which were put in place because of this -- isn't an excuse for punishing Odor more....and oh by the way Bautista was getting ready to punch first after that even. If anything was just, Odor would get the same or less than Bautista.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

I'm tempted to say, "This ain't hockey", especially when I consider that a lot of guys who get pitched inside to....kinda deserve it, but still, sometimes teams gotta protect their star hitters. The heyday of guys like Gibson and Drysdale is long gone, and we have to accept it, much as we may like to see pitchers knock some of these hot dogs on their buns. So, when guys get hit, brawls will happen.

Not sure what the solution is...either less pitching inside, which seems wrong, or MORE, so hitters will just have to get used to it...which seems, if not wrong, at least way too risky. Considering how fast most guys pitch today, that feels like another Ray Chapman waiting to happen, which absolutely nobody wants to see, ever.

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Yes, cause violence is always a good solution. Don't like somebody else's actions - oh that's easy to fix - just punch them in the face. Great way to carry yourself. Really gives the sport a good name too.

Yeah, because there was nothing violent about that slide...

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Bautista is an entitled little punk. He didn't like that he got HBP. He admitted he slid VERY late to "send a message." He didn't even hit the ground until he was on top of the bag. He actually made a fist first.

He is a general punk. I'm sure Odor will get the worst of it because that's what it looks like at a glance and because Bautista got trucked. But that doesn't change the fact that the true cause of this entire thing is Bautista and no one else. Just because he got trucked in response to his intentional (by his own admission), dangerous and potentially career threatening act, OUTSIDE OF THE CLEAR RULES which were put in place because of this -- isn't an excuse for punishing Odor more....and oh by the way Bautista was getting ready to punch first after that even. If anything was just, Odor would get the same or less than Bautista.

No argument on Batista.

No need to say anything about Odor's class either, his history speaks for itself.

I will say it was pretty chicken$hit of Texas to wait until Batista's very last at bat of the season against them to retaliate. Then they get a kid who wasn't even part of it to do the dirty work, another gutless act.

Not a fan of either team, and I still think both players should be suspended for a lengthy period.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

Yeah, because there was nothing violent about that slide...

Right - so whatever someone does to you, it's ok to do it back to them.

Going by your logic, all the Rangers should have done then is wait until one of their players hit a homer against the Jays and then do a big emotional bat flip after words.

Another fine example of what's wrong with this whole situation.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Bautista is an entitled little punk.

As is Odor. And I'm sure many others in the league. Does it matter? No.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

He didn't like that he got HBP.

last AB of the last game of the year series against a team he personally embarrassed in the payoffs last year? Nope. Pure coincidence there. Plus there's a history of pitchers throwing at him so after a while, you'd get a tad peeved.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

He admitted he slid VERY late to "send a message." He didn't even hit the ground until he was on top of the bag.

Guess Odor doesn't like his medicine being given back to him. How sad. At least Bautista hit the bag, unlike some examples...

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

He actually made a fist first.

Subjective and irrelevant. There's no rule that says you must punch someone if they make a fist.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

He is a general punk.

Yes, Odor is.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I'm sure Odor will get the worst of it because that's what it looks like at a glance and because Bautista got trucked.

As he should. He could have been the bigger man and laughed that his team was winning and the game was almost over. He didn't, and he should pay for his mistakes.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

But that doesn't change the fact that the true cause of this entire thing is Bautista and no one else.

Unless Bautista has telekinesis and punched himself with Odor's fist, that's pure ****. Odor's actions are Odor's alone, and he's got a past history of doing exactly what he got pissy about JB about. He decided to get pissy. He decided to get into a fight.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Just because he got trucked in response to his intentional (by his own admission), dangerous and potentially career threatening act, OUTSIDE OF THE CLEAR RULES which were put in place because of this

FYI Concussions can also be career ending, and can be caused by the right blow to the head. Fortunately, Odor's punches seem to have as much of a chance of injury as Bautista's slide did.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

-- isn't an excuse for punishing Odor more

Actually yes it is, as browls > Utley rule as far as punishments go.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

....and oh by the way Bautista was getting ready to punch first after that even.

And btw, still subjective and irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

If anything was just, Odor would get the same or less than Bautista.

Sorry, bias isn't spelt j-u-s-t.

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy

Not sure what the solution is...either less pitching inside, which seems wrong, or MORE, so hitters will just have to get used to it...which seems, if not wrong, at least way too risky. Considering how fast most guys pitch today, that feels like another Ray Chapman waiting to happen, which absolutely nobody wants to see, ever.

Gibson was throwing high 90's in the 60's, and I think Feller was in the 40's. the speed hasn't changed much over the last century or so. Add that the ball is replaced if there's so much as a scratch on it, and batting helmets, and another Ray Chapman happening are reduced by quite a bit.

As for stopping brawls, do what the NHL did. They used to have an epidemic of them in the 70''s and 80's. Now first player to leave the bench gets a ten game holiday. Second and later gets five games. No exceptions. No appeals. Do the same thing in baseball and the bench clearing farce heads into history along with beanball and orange baseballs.

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

Yeah, because there was nothing violent about that slide...

If that's a violent slide, we should probably just ban slides altogether. Was it late? Yes. Spikes up? No. On the bag? Yes. Should we make a rule where you have to slide by a certain line? Maybe only allow head first so basemen don't get the potential of spiking?

[ihatenames]

I'm indifferent really. I think rivalries are good for baseball. It's fun when teams don't like each other. As a Cubs fan, I love that the Pirates are trying to get into with the Cubs. It adds excitement to the game. To me it's like a Cold War. It's the shots across the bow and the tension that adds to the excitement. Decking s guy Michael Barrett style takes it a bit too far.

In regards to the Texas/Toronto disaster... Im not a fan of either team but from my perspective this made Texas look bad. If your team is "man enough" to throw at a hitter they should "man enough" to take the retaliation. Coming in hard at second after getting intentionally drillled has been around as long as the purpose pitch.

Odor should have known this was coming and I'm pretty sure he did based on the throw. It looked to me like he was trying to nail JB with it. Given Odor history of dirty plays and throwing punches it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt here. I don't blame Texas as a whole or Baistista for doing what they did. Odor on the other hand, was just looking for a fight and I'm not impressed.

Again, I'm not a fan of either team and have no skin in the game. This is just how I see it as a baseball fan.

[AnotherAlias]

Put me down for none ever.

I clicked on "Less" but at the last second noticed the bottom choice.

I demand a recount!

[ZiggyPop]

I just want more Monkey Rodeo. But apparently, it's not an option. How sad.

[Whoofe]

oh I think they are equally guilty. slide doesn't have to be spikes up to injure someone. I'd give both of em somewhere around 10 days off.

I may be one of the few, but I like the new slide rule - if a player is sliding so far past the bag that he couldn't possibly be safe, then his intentions can only be to hit the fielder. I don't want to see another Hal McRae "slide", that was a joke even for the 70s

[CONN CHRIS]

I opt for more because it is entertaining.

Most of these guys are financially set for life if they have two brain cells to rub together and if they want to entertain me a bit with skirmishes now and then, I'm all for it.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

Put me down for none ever.

I clicked on "Less" but at the last second noticed the bottom choice.

I demand a recount!

Yup. I'm too old to watch kids fight. No interest in it whatsoever. I'll go watch Disney Jr if I want to see kids.

[stl jason]

Odor suspended 8 games:

Texas Rangers: Report: Rangers' Rougned Odor suspended 8 games by MLB for punching Toronto's Jose Bautista | SportsDay

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by ZiggyPop

I just want more Monkey Rodeo. But apparently, it's not an option. How sad.

Well done, good sir.