+++ Possible OOTP 6 Features +++ - Page 6

moore4807 · 08-10-2003, 04:30 PM

Crabster,
These are the # I strongly agree with- with my own commentary to add

1- (minor point - prefer scrolling ESPN style bar at bottom to e-mails, move mouse over and highlight story/scout report - less clicks w/ mouse)
2- better than my suggestions
3- (especially the opposition's visiting the mound!)
4- I could live with an */+ or - next to name on roster to do this...
5- less clicks are better...
6- This is what I want my minors Mgr to do for me before Sept 1 - give me the list of players to call up in a box, let me check off who I want/ or choose all- & get back to playing.
8- contact/power, opposite field hitting, should be incuded, by the way ALL bunts are for hits otherwise they are sacrifices...

12- Double Play, Deep, and Shift (for pull hitters) should be the too.
14/15- YEEESSSSS!!!!!!!! all should be included and part of daily reports, including nagging injuries affecting attitudes. (Kirk Gibson hitting HR on one good leg - or whiny player (choose several) who keep re-visiting DL....
16- BRAVO!!!!
19/20- Call ya butter cause your on a roll, YEESSSS!!!!
23- I think pitcher warm-up should be mandatory, there should also be better control of bullpen during simming. My #3 middle reliever has WAY more innings than #1? and #3 isn't my mop-up guy? What gives?
Excellent post Crab - hopefully their listening... it IS already a good game - one of my 3 most played (DoD 1st, OOTP, Port Royale)

Crabster · 08-10-2003, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the comments moore4807.....I`m still thinking of some more......lol

brimick78 · 08-10-2003, 08:01 PM

I mentioned this in The Draft thread just though I'd ask about here.

Markus is there any chance we'll see compensation picks in this game?

brimick78 · 08-10-2003, 08:01 PM

I mentioned this in The Draft thread just though I'd ask about here.

Markus is there any chance we'll see compensation picks in this game?

trident · 08-11-2003, 02:43 AM

Please dont forget the much needed improvements to the atmosphere MEDIA aspect of a simulation game. Like in CM4 the media component is an interesting one yet not that complex.

Needs to be in place if I want to get in the mood of my team and play season after season after season. thx again.. keep up the good work.

SSG Troyer · 08-11-2003, 10:20 AM

I'm gonna through in my 2 cents into this ring ...

Pitch-by-pitch could be another option in-game along with Swing Away and Pitch-Normal. Maybe "Finish AB" and "One Pitch-Strike" & "One Pitch-Ball" / "One Pitch-Swing Away" & "One-Pitch-Take". Getting the AI to effectively use this will be the key, however...

Pitchers should be able to go backward-compatible something along the lines of SP E-A being 6-10 and MR/CL E-A being 1-5. I'm still firmly in the camp that the number rating should roughly reflect the number of innings a pitcher can pitch before becoming fatigued. That way, reliever and starter fatigue rating don't matter. All it's saying is, "This is how long the guy can go. You decide how to use him." Era adjustments could/should also apply.
I'm confident there will be an importer. Whether or not the players will perform as before is another issue, but one I'm prepared to live with.

You need 2D for football. Both kinds. And hockey. And basketball. All these games use set plays, and depend on a player's ability to execute them. The graphic representation of this (non)execution is needed for proper evaluation of a player's performance. For baseball, set plays are "Infield In," "Hit-and-Run," "Squeeze" and the like. We don't need to see this. 2D is a waste of time that would be better spent elsewhere.

Scrolling messages caused so many people compatibility problems in OOTP4 and earlier, glad to see 'em gone.

The ability to sim multiple seasons prior to the current RL date without being asked to import rookies is the single biggest issue on my wishlist.

Scott Vibert · 08-11-2003, 01:09 PM

The pitcher endurance, should NOT refer to innings... it should instead refer to pitchers. There is no way a 30 pitch struggle in the first pitching should be as taxing as a 5 pitch inning.

Some more personal interaction with my players would be a nice feature. I'm not sure how much more information we could get from the minors mangers, currently they're main job is development.

We need to have the entire scouting/coaching ratings revamped though. The actual skill of coaches/scouts currently starts at a level and only goes up, never down. This creates an inbalance in the quality of coaches/scouts available. Furthermore how can you accurately assess a coaches exact skill leve? You can't and it's ridiculous for a human to see that this coach is skill level 10 (LEGENDARY), etc. Is Joe Torre a much better manager now then he was with the Mets? Or is it partially the quality of the players on both teams? We can't really say for sure his exact "skill" but he has a reputation that is built on the performance of his club. This is how the scouts and coaches need to be rated, on reputation.

The reputation will change and adjust based on the performance of the team in the area he's coaching at. See that Hitting Coach with the great reputation.... well take a shot with him, but recognize that maybe that reputation came from coaching in Colorado the last 5 years. See the guy with an Unknown reputation? Give him a shot if you dare... maybe he'll turn out to be great, you won't know until you see how your team reacts. The reputation adjustment can be set based on the teams overall performance and rank overall. Coach Skill levels shouldn't really fluxuate all that much and certainly shouldn't just go sky high forever... by keeping them hidden and only showing the coaches reputation you make hiring coaches much more realistic and even make it so that it might not be exploitative to allow coach re-signings.

moore4807 · 08-11-2003, 07:52 PM

Scott,
While I get your point about inning vs pitch counts, the inverse of that is there IS an average of pitches per inning (STATS etc.) each pitcher will have a 30 pitch struggle - then control and stamina have a part too...better the pitcher the fewer the bad innings... put all three of these items together and then each pitcher can have a single rating (or 5 or 10) for endurance... quick synopsis of problem -point out the hole in the theory - please ...

kq76 · 08-11-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
The pitcher endurance, should NOT refer to innings... it should instead refer to pitchers. There is no way a 30 pitch struggle in the first pitching should be as taxing as a 5 pitch inning.

I agree. But, uh, were you drinking when you typed that??

... how can you accurately assess a coaches exact skill leve? You can't and it's ridiculous for a human to see that this coach is skill level 10 (LEGENDARY), etc. Is Joe Torre a much better manager now then he was with the Mets? Or is it partially the quality of the players on both teams? We can't really say for sure his exact "skill" but he has a reputation that is built on the performance of his club. This is how the scouts and coaches need to be rated, on reputation.

I never really thought about it before, but I completely agree! As it is now, solo league play is just too easy with coaches on.

Quote:

Originally posted by moore4807
Scott,
While I get your point about inning vs pitch counts, the inverse of that is there IS an average of pitches per inning (STATS etc.) each pitcher will have a 30 pitch struggle - then control and stamina have a part too...better the pitcher the fewer the bad innings... put all three of these items together and then each pitcher can have a single rating (or 5 or 10) for endurance... quick synopsis of problem -point out the hole in the theory - please ...

I don't understand. It sounds like you have a good point, but I don't understand. Surely you're not arguing that stamina is more based on innings than pitches. I understand it could be partly because of the downtime between innings maybe, but I don't think that's all that significant unless there's an extra long break due to lots of scoring by the other team or a rain delay, but normally I don't see it.

c-man · 08-11-2003, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
The reputation will change and adjust based on the performance of the team in the area he's coaching at. See that Hitting Coach with the great reputation.... well take a shot with him, but recognize that maybe that reputation came from coaching in Colorado the last 5 years. See the guy with an Unknown reputation? Give him a shot if you dare...

I totally agree that this area needs to be thought of differently and basically i think you're right to make it based on experience. However, the problem is that i don't think anyone would ever "dare" as you put it. To me that would continue the current problem where humans have a great advantage because there is no reason not to always get the best coaches available, (this would translate to best reputation) and the AI will settle for worse (or lesser known) coaches/scouts.

I agree that it should all be experience based, but personally, i would choose not to have any type of imposed rating describing reputation and just have stats compiled for each coach. In this system, you would only hire inexperienced managers/coaches for A ball and only inexperienced managers/coaches would accept those jobs. You could recruit coaches from other teams minor league systems and offer them jobs higher up the ladder. A coach is performing amazingly somewhere at AA for 5 years, maybe you give him a shot in the majors and score a great coach for life. maybe he busts and you can demote him to AAA where he does well. That way there is actually incentive and research that would go into using less experienced coaches. At the same time perhaps coaches could quit your organization to accept other better jobs elsewhere. Maybe A level coaches come from coaching college or foreign leagues so that everyone has a starting point, but it is stat, not rating based. (in the user's eyes)

This would be more challenging and add great depth to the game. Perhaps coaches themselves would develop their own demands about promotion, etc. There would also be much more reason to fire coaches (because you're never really sure) , which is something i have never done in this game.

anyway, there's lots of ways to give this depth---would love to see it developed.

moore4807 · 08-12-2003, 01:21 AM

the explanation is
I'm going to GUESS the average for 3 outs for a side of an inning is 13 pitches thrown... (this is strictly a guess) and avg. 80-100 pitches per starter in a game...

Now my point is - a SP throwing one 30 pitch inning will use up 2+ avg innings of pitching, ergo he will last at most 4-5 innings of work (most likely losing as well

)

so take Shilling or Johnson at thier prime, did they average 13 pitches an inning? probably less but close... 10-11 pitches allowed them to pitch 7-8 innings no problem... now the pitcher with control problems? he might get to the 7th, usually winning because of the offense/defense not pitching.

So my solution is to make stamina and endurance the same with pitch speed and pitch control the variable...

example

stamina - ability to pitch with speed & control 1-5 stars
control - ability to hit catcher target 1-5 stars
Speed - mph of pitch 1-5 stars

a 1 star stamina = 30 pitches/ doesnt mean he cant throw longer - just will take a hit in either speed/control or both
a 2 star stamina = 50 pitches/ same rules apply
3 star stamina =70 pitches/ not good on short rest
4 star stamina = 90 pitches/ avg on short rest
5 star stamina = 110 pitches/good on short rest

Control
1star=70% accuracy/2star=75%/3star=80%/4star=85%/ 5star=90%

Speed
1star=75%/2star=80%/3star=85%/4star=90%/5 star=95% of top posted speed of pitcher - now this variable is harder - a pitcher throwing in the first has all of his gas, a pitcher in the 8th is trying to hang on. I say lose avg 3 % of speed each inning unless hot- then 2% would be good - so a pitcher wont be dominating all game unless he's accurate too.

Just throwing it out there -pick it apart- make it better....

Spritze · 08-12-2003, 02:06 AM

As far as coaches go one thing I would find compelling would be a toggle on the players page, that if toggled on, upon his retirement, he became a coach.

Specs · 08-12-2003, 02:15 AM

For his career, Curt Schilling has averaged 15.2 PPI... and 108.9 PPG

"Prime" Numbers are 14.5, 15.6, 16.2, 15.6, 15.5, 16.3, 15.7, 14.8, 14.6, 14.5, 14.4.

Johnson, on the other hand, has a career average of 16.7, due largely to more walks. He has pitched 116.4 PPG.

"Prime" Numbers (since 1990) are 17.1, 18.5, 18.0, 16.6, 16.8, 16.9, 17.8, 16.4, 16.7, 15.5, 16.2, 16.4, 15.4.

Nowhere near 10-11 PPI. Rick Reed on the other hand, averaged under 14 PPI for a couple seasons because he's a soft tosser.

Mark Mulder is the lowest this year among starters at 13.8, but this is largely due to a career year. David Wells and Kevin Brown have always been very pitch-efficent, as are most sinkerballers, because they tend to get a lot of 1-pt outs.

tmwhalens · 08-12-2003, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry
That has to be explained ?!?! LOL

I've noticed some grammatical anomalies in the game myself

You know, though, it adds CHARACTER to the game! To me, it just feels that the scout actually wrote that description of the player, which I like.

ctorg · 08-12-2003, 09:01 AM

I'd still like to see the sim option to stop simming only for trade offers. I hate stopping a sim only to hear that my scrub backup third baseman would like to resign with me.

Stashu · 08-12-2003, 01:09 PM

Hmmm, i have yet to see anyone mention Eastiside Hockey as an example of where to get some options from.

I gotta say, the contract negotiations in that game are amazing. The chance to give people no trade clauses alone would help make OOTP better.

On top of that, the scouts in Eastside do a great job finding players that your team should look at.

x94blair3 · 08-12-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BaseballGuy21
I think a good idea for a new rating system would be the 20-80 scale the professional scouts use.
Click here to see what I'm talking about

This is a great idea

Holy crap I've been gone a long time.

At any rate, it's good to be back!

It's also good to see a developer freed up and inspired. Rewrites are a good thing as you inevitably end up pigeonholed with your initial directions.

I have to admit I had a hard time getting into the game beyond testing some stuff because like all sports games I kept waiting OVER and OVER for better and better rosters....but I can see I'll be excited for OOTP6 now.

-Nick

moore4807 · 08-12-2003, 05:16 PM

Specs
Ok I'm glad somebody has the numbers -remember I was only guessing at it...
now why would'nt PPI serve as a guide to stamina/endurance? I still stand by my earlier saying that avg SP's pitch 80-100 pitches a game. so if its 15-18 PPI is avg. then thats the ticket!

JAttractive · 08-12-2003, 05:27 PM

No time to read over this whole thread but that 2D graphics idea would be the #1 thing on my list! I don't know why but I just loved that in other games of this nature that I have played and have always wanted to see it for this game.

Deft · 08-13-2003, 12:04 AM

One thing I would like to see that would make this less a statistics game and more of a baseball game would have hitter tendencies. Pitchers have pitch types, G/F and velocity ratings to give them depth. Hitter should have strengths and weaknesses, and defenses that can be played to counteract them.

Possible options:
low ball hitter (more successful vs. ground ball pitchers)
fastball hitter (self explanatory)
slow bat (struggle against high velocity guys)

These variable shouldn't be major factors but they would give the current pitch types, and hitter type some reason beyond window dressing and give the game a better baseball feel and maybe make specific pitcher/hitter matchups more important.

Also I would like to see the computer take the team finances and the players contracts into account beyond just making sure they don't go broke in the deal.

08-11-2003, 02:43 AM	#105
trident All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: GM Games Posts: 537	Please dont forget the much needed improvements to the atmosphere MEDIA aspect of a simulation game. Like in CM4 the media component is an interesting one yet not that complex. Needs to be in place if I want to get in the mood of my team and play season after season after season. thx again.. keep up the good work. __________________ General Manager (GM) Games Website \| Reddit \| Discord \| YouTube

08-11-2003, 10:20 AM	#106
SSG Troyer All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere to the left of 2nd base Posts: 1,598	I'm gonna through in my 2 cents into this ring ... Pitch-by-pitch could be another option in-game along with Swing Away and Pitch-Normal. Maybe "Finish AB" and "One Pitch-Strike" & "One Pitch-Ball" / "One Pitch-Swing Away" & "One-Pitch-Take". Getting the AI to effectively use this will be the key, however... Pitchers should be able to go backward-compatible something along the lines of SP E-A being 6-10 and MR/CL E-A being 1-5. I'm still firmly in the camp that the number rating should roughly reflect the number of innings a pitcher can pitch before becoming fatigued. That way, reliever and starter fatigue rating don't matter. All it's saying is, "This is how long the guy can go. You decide how to use him." Era adjustments could/should also apply. I'm confident there will be an importer. Whether or not the players will perform as before is another issue, but one I'm prepared to live with. You need 2D for football. Both kinds. And hockey. And basketball. All these games use set plays, and depend on a player's ability to execute them. The graphic representation of this (non)execution is needed for proper evaluation of a player's performance. For baseball, set plays are "Infield In," "Hit-and-Run," "Squeeze" and the like. We don't need to see this. 2D is a waste of time that would be better spent elsewhere. Scrolling messages caused so many people compatibility problems in OOTP4 and earlier, glad to see 'em gone. The ability to sim multiple seasons prior to the current RL date without being asked to import rookies is the single biggest issue on my wishlist. __________________ MWT Did Tennesee Delaware Mississppi's New Jersey? Idaho ... Alaska!

08-12-2003, 01:21 AM	#111
moore4807 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Punta Gorda FL. Posts: 1,389	explanation the explanation is I'm going to GUESS the average for 3 outs for a side of an inning is 13 pitches thrown... (this is strictly a guess) and avg. 80-100 pitches per starter in a game... Now my point is - a SP throwing one 30 pitch inning will use up 2+ avg innings of pitching, ergo he will last at most 4-5 innings of work (most likely losing as well ) so take Shilling or Johnson at thier prime, did they average 13 pitches an inning? probably less but close... 10-11 pitches allowed them to pitch 7-8 innings no problem... now the pitcher with control problems? he might get to the 7th, usually winning because of the offense/defense not pitching. So my solution is to make stamina and endurance the same with pitch speed and pitch control the variable... example stamina - ability to pitch with speed & control 1-5 stars control - ability to hit catcher target 1-5 stars Speed - mph of pitch 1-5 stars a 1 star stamina = 30 pitches/ doesnt mean he cant throw longer - just will take a hit in either speed/control or both a 2 star stamina = 50 pitches/ same rules apply 3 star stamina =70 pitches/ not good on short rest 4 star stamina = 90 pitches/ avg on short rest 5 star stamina = 110 pitches/good on short rest Control 1star=70% accuracy/2star=75%/3star=80%/4star=85%/ 5star=90% Speed 1star=75%/2star=80%/3star=85%/4star=90%/5 star=95% of top posted speed of pitcher - now this variable is harder - a pitcher throwing in the first has all of his gas, a pitcher in the 8th is trying to hang on. I say lose avg 3 % of speed each inning unless hot- then 2% would be good - so a pitcher wont be dominating all game unless he's accurate too. Just throwing it out there -pick it apart- make it better....

08-12-2003, 09:01 AM	#115
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I'd still like to see the sim option to stop simming only for trade offers. I hate stopping a sim only to hear that my scrub backup third baseman would like to resign with me. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

08-12-2003, 01:09 PM	#116
Stashu Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 177	Hmmm, i have yet to see anyone mention Eastiside Hockey as an example of where to get some options from. I gotta say, the contract negotiations in that game are amazing. The chance to give people no trade clauses alone would help make OOTP better. On top of that, the scouts in Eastside do a great job finding players that your team should look at. __________________

08-10-2003, 04:30 PM	#101
moore4807 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Punta Gorda FL. Posts: 1,389	Crabster, These are the # I strongly agree with- with my own commentary to add 1- (minor point - prefer scrolling ESPN style bar at bottom to e-mails, move mouse over and highlight story/scout report - less clicks w/ mouse) 2- better than my suggestions 3- (especially the opposition's visiting the mound!) 4- I could live with an */+ or - next to name on roster to do this... 5- less clicks are better... 6- This is what I want my minors Mgr to do for me before Sept 1 - give me the list of players to call up in a box, let me check off who I want/ or choose all- & get back to playing. 8- contact/power, opposite field hitting, should be incuded, by the way ALL bunts are for hits otherwise they are sacrifices... 12- Double Play, Deep, and Shift (for pull hitters) should be the too. 14/15- YEEESSSSS!!!!!!!! all should be included and part of daily reports, including nagging injuries affecting attitudes. (Kirk Gibson hitting HR on one good leg - or whiny player (choose several) who keep re-visiting DL.... 16- BRAVO!!!! 19/20- Call ya butter cause your on a roll, YEESSSS!!!! 23- I think pitcher warm-up should be mandatory, there should also be better control of bullpen during simming. My #3 middle reliever has WAY more innings than #1? and #3 isn't my mop-up guy? What gives? Excellent post Crab - hopefully their listening... it IS already a good game - one of my 3 most played (DoD 1st, OOTP, Port Royale)

08-10-2003, 06:01 PM	#102
Crabster Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, England (Northwest) Posts: 229	Thanks for the comments moore4807.....I`m still thinking of some more......lol

08-10-2003, 08:01 PM	#103
brimick78 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: na Posts: 44	I mentioned this in The Draft thread just though I'd ask about here. Markus is there any chance we'll see compensation picks in this game?

08-10-2003, 08:01 PM	#104
brimick78 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: na Posts: 44	I mentioned this in The Draft thread just though I'd ask about here. Markus is there any chance we'll see compensation picks in this game?

08-11-2003, 01:09 PM	#107
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,210	The pitcher endurance, should NOT refer to innings... it should instead refer to pitchers. There is no way a 30 pitch struggle in the first pitching should be as taxing as a 5 pitch inning. Some more personal interaction with my players would be a nice feature. I'm not sure how much more information we could get from the minors mangers, currently they're main job is development. We need to have the entire scouting/coaching ratings revamped though. The actual skill of coaches/scouts currently starts at a level and only goes up, never down. This creates an inbalance in the quality of coaches/scouts available. Furthermore how can you accurately assess a coaches exact skill leve? You can't and it's ridiculous for a human to see that this coach is skill level 10 (LEGENDARY), etc. Is Joe Torre a much better manager now then he was with the Mets? Or is it partially the quality of the players on both teams? We can't really say for sure his exact "skill" but he has a reputation that is built on the performance of his club. This is how the scouts and coaches need to be rated, on reputation. The reputation will change and adjust based on the performance of the team in the area he's coaching at. See that Hitting Coach with the great reputation.... well take a shot with him, but recognize that maybe that reputation came from coaching in Colorado the last 5 years. See the guy with an Unknown reputation? Give him a shot if you dare... maybe he'll turn out to be great, you won't know until you see how your team reacts. The reputation adjustment can be set based on the teams overall performance and rank overall. Coach Skill levels shouldn't really fluxuate all that much and certainly shouldn't just go sky high forever... by keeping them hidden and only showing the coaches reputation you make hiring coaches much more realistic and even make it so that it might not be exploitative to allow coach re-signings.

08-11-2003, 07:52 PM	#108
moore4807 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Punta Gorda FL. Posts: 1,389	Scott, While I get your point about inning vs pitch counts, the inverse of that is there IS an average of pitches per inning (STATS etc.) each pitcher will have a 30 pitch struggle - then control and stamina have a part too...better the pitcher the fewer the bad innings... put all three of these items together and then each pitcher can have a single rating (or 5 or 10) for endurance... quick synopsis of problem -point out the hole in the theory - please ...

08-12-2003, 02:06 AM	#112
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	As far as coaches go one thing I would find compelling would be a toggle on the players page, that if toggled on, upon his retirement, he became a coach.

08-12-2003, 05:16 PM	#118
moore4807 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Punta Gorda FL. Posts: 1,389	Specs Ok I'm glad somebody has the numbers -remember I was only guessing at it... now why would'nt PPI serve as a guide to stamina/endurance? I still stand by my earlier saying that avg SP's pitch 80-100 pitches a game. so if its 15-18 PPI is avg. then thats the ticket!

08-12-2003, 05:27 PM	#119
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	No time to read over this whole thread but that 2D graphics idea would be the #1 thing on my list! I don't know why but I just loved that in other games of this nature that I have played and have always wanted to see it for this game.

08-13-2003, 12:04 AM	#120
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,111	One thing I would like to see that would make this less a statistics game and more of a baseball game would have hitter tendencies. Pitchers have pitch types, G/F and velocity ratings to give them depth. Hitter should have strengths and weaknesses, and defenses that can be played to counteract them. Possible options: low ball hitter (more successful vs. ground ball pitchers) fastball hitter (self explanatory) slow bat (struggle against high velocity guys) These variable shouldn't be major factors but they would give the current pitch types, and hitter type some reason beyond window dressing and give the game a better baseball feel and maybe make specific pitcher/hitter matchups more important. Also I would like to see the computer take the team finances and the players contracts into account beyond just making sure they don't go broke in the deal. __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2