Who Should Be The Two Expansion Teams in 1962?

[The Game]

In 1961 i will expand the ABF with 2 teams. Los Angeles Angels & San Francisco Seals. SF will go to teh North along with Baltimore moving to the North. Where should I expand in 1962?

Choose 2.

[kq76]

You might find this attachment useful.

I made it just recently to help me decide how to expand my PCL league every decade that I turned into a 3rd major league. I used strict city populations and I have every decade from 1820 to 2010.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by kq76

You might find this attachment useful.

I made it just recently to help me decide how to expand my PCL league every decade that I turned into a 3rd major league. I used strict city populations and I have every decade from 1820 to 2010.

That would come in handy. Do you have a copy of it? i'll need it again in 1969, 77,93 & 99. I am following MLB expansion and alignment. Makes the schedule easier.

[kq76]

Sure. See the attachment.

Note that it's a zipped openoffice calc file and the Canadian cities are very incomplete. The American cities, however, have the top 100 from almost every decade, with 2010 having far more, all from census.gov. I did find a couple errors in that site's own numbers (e.g. one decade they confused Youngstown, OH with Youngstown, PA, which I corrected) so if anyone finds anymore please let me know and I'll correct them. I'll probably be updating it in the future so if someone wants a copy months from now you might want to PM me for the latest one. Or if you have an idea for something I should add to it, let me know.

I find the best way to sort it is to select the entire "master" sheet, deselect the top 2 rows by pressing ctrl then selecting them (I often use 2 rows for headers), and then running a descending sort on the population column I'm interested in. I should add a macro to automate all that, but not today.

[The Game]

After the polling is complate, then you guys can help me decide on team nicknames.
CephasJames set is among my favorite but some names i am not fan of.

i forgot to list Kansas City. In his set they are named the Huskers.
Other names for cities listed might be
Seattle Moose, Pilots or Warriors
Chicago Athletes, Bulls, Stampede or Cubs.
LA Blue Sox
Memphis Blues
San Diego Padres, eventually SF will move to SD.
Denver Bears
San Antonio Missons, Mustangs, Spurs
Miami Whales, Marlins
Las Vegas Aces
Milwaukee Brewers, Hops.

[kq76]

Does cephasjames have a list of just recommended nicknames for different cities or are you talking about his collection of logos? I was thinking of doing the former and if he has something like it I'd love to see it.

You mentioned you forgot KC. Did you miss Pittsburgh? I was going to vote Milwaukee and Pittsburgh, but it wasn't there so I voted SD.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by kq76

You might find this attachment useful.

I made it just recently to help me decide how to expand my PCL league every decade that I turned into a 3rd major league. I used strict city populations and I have every decade from 1820 to 2010.

The drawback there is that city-only population doesn't capture the surrounding metropolitan population. It also doesn't capture the income of the metro areas, which is a factor in club earning potential.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The drawback there is that city-only population doesn't capture the surrounding metropolitan population. It also doesn't capture the income of the metro areas, which is a factor in club earning potential.

Yup, I know. When I first started on it years ago I was just interested in the very early years. I both wanted to learn more about US history (I was surprised to find that the south really didn't have sizeable cities, besides Charleston, SC, for the longest time) and what cities could have supported teams in the 1800s. And for that time period I'm sure these numbers are fine as I don't think there were any real suburbs and probably next to no one would travel that far to see a baseball game. Then for the early PCL expansion I figured it was still probably good enough. Of course some cities are a much smaller or larger percentage of their metro areas, but it would at least give me an idea of the size of cities that I wasn't that familiar with. It was a real eye opener for me to see when a number of cities took off, how long it took some like Chicago and Las Vegas, and how fast others seem to spring up out of nowhere. I'm sure a number of those were due to annexing other cities and what not, but at the least it points in the direction of further investigation.

If you do agree with me that these numbers are good enough up to a certain point, what decade would say you think they're not good enough? The 70s, 80s?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by kq76

Does cephasjames have a list of just recommended nicknames for different cities or are you talking about his collection of logos? I was thinking of doing the former and if he has something like it I'd love to see it.

You mentioned you forgot KC. Did you miss Pittsburgh? I was going to vote Milwaukee and Pittsburgh, but it wasn't there so I voted SD.

CJ has a complete set 1871-2012ish. Logos, jerseys, timeline. The download is on the boards somewhere.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by The Game

After the polling is complate, then you guys can help me decide on team nicknames.

Milwaukee Gemütlichkeit

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by kq76

Yup, I know. When I first started on it years ago I was just interested in the very early years. I both wanted to learn more about US history (I was surprised to find that the south really didn't have sizeable cities, besides Charleston, SC, for the longest time) and what cities could have supported teams in the 1800s. And for that time period I'm sure these numbers are fine as I don't think there were any real suburbs and probably next to no one would travel that far to see a baseball game ...

Yeah, there is no ideal system. There are always trade-offs and complications.

I've looked at a system leveraging the county populations figures, as those can serve as a de facto territory. There is county income data in past censuses, but it only goes back to 1960s, if I recall correctly, and for before that one has to extrapolate from state income data. I've collected a lot of the related info, but haven't done anything with it for a few years now.

Originally Posted by kq76

If you do agree with me that these numbers are good enough up to a certain point, what decade would say you think they're not good enough? The 70s, 80s?

From what I recall reading on the U.S. Census Bureau, up until about 1950 the rankings of places by city population and metropolitan population were pretty much the same. It is after 1950 that the suburban populations began to grow relative to the city population, and rankings of places by city and metropolitan population begin to diverge markedly.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Hammercraft

Milwaukee Gemütlichkeit

[Painmantle]

I would like to do a write in vote for Indianapolis

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

I would like to do a write in vote for Indianapolis

Indy Racers will be an expansion team after 2015 along with Charlotte.

[The Game]

So far Seattle & Milwaukee. What should i call them?
Seattle Moose, Pilots or Warriors?
Milwaukee Brewers or Hops?
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3516287

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by The Game

It's a German word that we learned in school in Milwaukee studying the city's history, more or less meaning comfort and hospitality

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by The Game

So far Seattle & Milwaukee. What should i call them?
Seattle Moose, Pilots or Warriors?
Milwaukee Brewers or Hops?
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3516287

I like the Hops logo the best, Moose the second best.