Question about Team's Market Size

CraigBShuman · 03-25-2016, 08:56 PM

Hello,

First time posting in the forums so I don't know proper protocol. But, I have a question. Does team loyalty increase/decrease with success and does market size increase with seasons played?

I am playing the 1962 NY Mets as the only non computer team. I sim each game by hand. The Mets are listed as a "3" in terms of market size. Every other team is listed as a "4" or higher. The Yankees market size is listed as "11". I understand the dominance of the Yankees world wide. I understand fan loyalty would be higher than the expansion Mets. But, the two teams play in the same market. The disparity in Market share was never THAT great. if I'm patient and play thru will the market size increase over time?

kq76 · 03-25-2016, 09:23 PM

They can change (based on what, I'm not sure, you can check the manual), but you can edit it if you like. You probably need to be in commissioner mode, but after that from the team menu select settings then look for market share.

I'd say the Mets market share in 1962 was probably nowhere near the Yankees, regardless of the population of New York, but I would say it was most likely higher than whatever the smallest in the league was. An expansion team almost anywhere would probably have a larger market size than the smallest in the league for the simple reason that baseball fans would be excited to have their own team, but after a few years all bets would be off as the newness would wear off.

Anyone · 03-26-2016, 02:55 AM

IMO, the market size should be unchangeable and simply a reflection of the number of fans who might support a team in the team's location.

The '62 Mets should draw much less due to relative lack of fan interest (which is another, very changeable variable). Lack of fan loyalty should also be a weakness, as the team hasn't existed long enough to gain loyal fans; but the market size should be high. The market size should just be the potential, if the team can build interest and loyalty.

And then, the market size should be unchangeable. Put a team in Billings, Montana or something and it has no way to draw many fans even if it wins three straight World Series, because so few people live within driving distance of the park. I'm guessing a "market size" could be built for it in OOTP, which is impossible in real life (maybe a TV market if the Mariners didn't exist, as then the Pacific Northwest might follow such a team by TV-- but they could never get good attendance).

kq76 · 03-26-2016, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyone

IMO, the market size should be unchangeable and simply a reflection of the number of fans who might support a team in the team's location.

How would you properly model teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Cardinals, and Blue Jays then? They all have fan bases that are much greater than their home city's population base. Let's just look at 2 of those in particular. The Jays are reportedly hugely popular across nearly all of Canada, not just Toronto, even more so since the Expos left Montreal I'm sure. And St. Louis is the 60th populous city in America (of course it depends on the metric you use, but whatever you use it probably used to be much higher as its population has nose-dived in the last few decades), yet I have to imagine the Cardinals are somewhere in the top 10 when it comes to fans. Based on population alone you could argue that a number of popular teams that have been in their respective cities for over a century, like the Reds, Pirates, Cardinals, and Indians, don't deserve to be in the major leagues anymore. Nah, market size needs to be dynamic otherwise you'd never be able to see some things in OOTP like fan bases grow despite population struggles which definitely do happen in real life.

The Game · 03-26-2016, 10:07 AM

I could be wrong but Market size does not change. You can manually change them. Fan interest & the fan interest modifier seem to have more of an effect on attendance then market size.
Odd, in my ABF league, NO has a better attendance then Atlanta. Atlanta's #'s are
FI 100
FIM -2
FL 10
MS 8
They play in Spiller Park 19,000
NO
FI 98
FIM 2
FL 7
MS 6
Pelican Park 25,000
Atlanta has played in the Championship series 6 times in the last 7 seasons.

jpeters1734 · 03-26-2016, 11:44 AM

market size DOES change and it's directly tied to the value of the team's media contracts. IDK if it's supposed to reflect the number of fans nationwide or locally, but since it can affect national media contracts, I'd assume the former.

03-25-2016, 08:56 PM	#1
CraigBShuman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 125	Question about Team's Market Size Hello, First time posting in the forums so I don't know proper protocol. But, I have a question. Does team loyalty increase/decrease with success and does market size increase with seasons played? I am playing the 1962 NY Mets as the only non computer team. I sim each game by hand. The Mets are listed as a "3" in terms of market size. Every other team is listed as a "4" or higher. The Yankees market size is listed as "11". I understand the dominance of the Yankees world wide. I understand fan loyalty would be higher than the expansion Mets. But, the two teams play in the same market. The disparity in Market share was never THAT great. if I'm patient and play thru will the market size increase over time?

03-25-2016, 09:23 PM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,035	They can change (based on what, I'm not sure, you can check the manual), but you can edit it if you like. You probably need to be in commissioner mode, but after that from the team menu select settings then look for market share. I'd say the Mets market share in 1962 was probably nowhere near the Yankees, regardless of the population of New York, but I would say it was most likely higher than whatever the smallest in the league was. An expansion team almost anywhere would probably have a larger market size than the smallest in the league for the simple reason that baseball fans would be excited to have their own team, but after a few years all bets would be off as the newness would wear off. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

03-26-2016, 10:07 AM	#5
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	I could be wrong but Market size does not change. You can manually change them. Fan interest & the fan interest modifier seem to have more of an effect on attendance then market size. Odd, in my ABF league, NO has a better attendance then Atlanta. Atlanta's #'s are FI 100 FIM -2 FL 10 MS 8 They play in Spiller Park 19,000 NO FI 98 FIM 2 FL 7 MS 6 Pelican Park 25,000 Atlanta has played in the Championship series 6 times in the last 7 seasons. Attached Images __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

03-26-2016, 11:44 AM	#6
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,294	market size DOES change and it's directly tied to the value of the team's media contracts. IDK if it's supposed to reflect the number of fans nationwide or locally, but since it can affect national media contracts, I'd assume the former. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

03-26-2016, 02:55 AM	#3
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	IMO, the market size should be unchangeable and simply a reflection of the number of fans who might support a team in the team's location. The '62 Mets should draw much less due to relative lack of fan interest (which is another, very changeable variable). Lack of fan loyalty should also be a weakness, as the team hasn't existed long enough to gain loyal fans; but the market size should be high. The market size should just be the potential, if the team can build interest and loyalty. And then, the market size should be unchangeable. Put a team in Billings, Montana or something and it has no way to draw many fans even if it wins three straight World Series, because so few people live within driving distance of the park. I'm guessing a "market size" could be built for it in OOTP, which is impossible in real life (maybe a TV market if the Mariners didn't exist, as then the Pacific Northwest might follow such a team by TV-- but they could never get good attendance).