Elimination Number or Magic Number? - Page 2

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 02-26-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Uk

Here you go

Twitch

My hero!

swoboda · 02-26-2016, 11:17 AM

Both would be better, but if it is only one for now.... Magic Number

The Wolf · 02-26-2016, 12:09 PM

I believe in magic...numbers.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 12:15 PM

Close the thread

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thirdsaint · 02-26-2016, 12:34 PM

I'm fine with the magic number. Instead, on the base Standings page I'd like to see Runs Scored, Runs Against, and a Run Differential and to fit these perhaps less room for the team names. My longest team name fills half the room it is allotted for and there's so much blank space there.

Le Grande Orange · 02-26-2016, 02:43 PM

Elimination number is much more useful for the following reasons:

(1) With magic number, that only applies to the leading club, making the column a complete waste of space for every other club, whereas elimination number always makes full use of the column, resulting in a more aesthetically pleasing look.

(2) The elimination number for the second-place club is the magic number for the first-place club, so it's not as if any information is being lost by switching to elimination number. (Indeed, information is being gained.)

(3) Elimination number is more useful since it shows when clubs are officially out of the playoff running. Magic number is only useful for the first-place club, and yields no specific information for clubs in other positions.

ETA: The way some are rejecting out-of-hand elimination number, in spite of its advantages outlined above, strikes me as being similar to those who reject sabermetric stats because they're not like the old stats they are used to. Never mind that the new stats are more useful, they're newfangled! Keep 'em off my lawn!

Orcin · 02-26-2016, 02:45 PM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Le Grande Orange · 02-26-2016, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It is broke. Magic number is pretty much useless other than for the leading club. Comparing magic number to elimination number is like comparing batting average to on-base percentage—the latter is much more useful because it tells you more of what's important.

I'm rather surprised by some round here who are happy to embrace the new baseball statistics yet cling to the old, all but useless magic number.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Elimination number is much more useful for the following reasons:

(1) With magic number, that only applies to the leading club, making the column a complete waste of space for every other club, whereas elimination number always makes full use of the column, resulting in a more aesthetically pleasing look.

(2) The elimination number for the second-place club is the magic number for the first-place club, so it's not as if any information is being lost by switching to elimination number. (Indeed, information is being gained.)

(3) Elimination number is more useful since it shows when clubs are officially out of the playoff running. Magic number is only useful for the first-place club, and yields no specific information for clubs in other positions.

ETA: The way some are rejecting out-of-hand elimination number, in spite of its advantages outlined above, strikes me as being similar to those who reject sabermetric stats because they're not like the old stats they are used to. Never mind that the new stats are more useful, they're newfangled! Keep 'em off my lawn!

Exactly.

Baseball fans are usually the most-cerebral group out of all sport fans. I'm totally surprised by the result.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm rather surprised by some round here who are happy to embrace the new baseball statistics yet cling to the old, all but useless magic number.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

pizzaddict · 02-26-2016, 04:15 PM

I too would prefer elimination number but I'm one of those fictional players so only 25% of my vote counts.

RchW · 02-26-2016, 04:35 PM

It could be the tone of the debate.You guys should listen to what your whining sounds like read aloud.

actionjackson · 02-26-2016, 04:37 PM

Elimination number makes the most sense to me, but I'm a historical player so my opinion is virtually worthless, not even good enough to scratch together a decent tip in a restaurant.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Elimination number makes the most sense to me, but I'm a historical player so my opinion is virtually worthless, not even good enough to scratch together a decent tip in a restaurant.

Germaniac · 02-26-2016, 04:44 PM

I can live with both, but being some kind of an old-timer I grew up with the magic number, so I'll stick with it.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 04:45 PM

I wonder how many people voted on the poll thinking it was a choice between naming conventions.

Probably a poorly-worded poll.

Le Grande Orange · 02-26-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germaniac

I can live with both, but being some kind of an old-timer I grew up with the magic number, so I'll stick with it.

I'll point out again that the elimination number of the second-place club IS the magic number of the first-place club. You're not losing anything. You are instead gaining useful information for clubs in positions other than first place.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

nom nom nom nom

I fixed it for ya

andrewv500 · 02-26-2016, 06:10 PM

I voted for elimination number. I had never really considered it before but to me it seems like a no-brainer for inclusion, somewhere within the expanded standings maybe? Reviewing that screen now I personally could do without the pythagorean record. Especially since that's tracked within the history screen and, in my opinion, not of tremendous value.

I agree with those who have said that elimination number provides the magic number in reverse while providing tangible info for every other team. And aesthetically I don't find the magic number counting down on the standings screen all season to be appealing, even more so since it takes it up so much space to provide so little relevant data until late in the season.

So if there had to be one, I choose elimination date. But also no reason to not have both, or maybe longer term, look towards making the standings screen customizable in regards to what data is shown in accordance to the user's preference much like the player search screen

Honorable_Pawn · 02-26-2016, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewv500

I voted for elimination number. I had never really considered it before but to me it seems like a no-brainer for inclusion, somewhere within the expanded standings maybe? Reviewing that screen now I personally could do without the pythagorean record. Especially since that's tracked within the history screen and, in my opinion, not of tremendous value.

I agree with those who have said that elimination number provides the magic number in reverse while providing tangible info for every other team. And aesthetically I don't find the magic number counting down on the standings screen all season to be appealing, even more so since it takes it up so much space to provide so little relevant data until late in the season.

So if there had to be one, I choose elimination date. But also no reason to not have both, or maybe longer term, look towards making the standings screen customizable in regards to what data is shown in accordance to the user's preference much like the player search screen

What if we put the elimination number in the same column as the magic number?

Simply use a positive number for the magic number and a negative number for the elimination number.

This way we get both and no extra space is used.

View Poll Results: Which would you rather see?
Elimination Number	22	34.92%
Magic Number	41	65.08%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

02-26-2016, 11:17 AM	#22
swoboda All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Guarding The Line Posts: 1,230	Both would be better, but if it is only one for now.... Magic Number __________________ "...If you want to look ahead to the bottom of the ninth, the Mets will be sending up Buddy Harrelson, Jerry Buchek , and Don Bosch, we'll be right back after this word from Rheingold Beer" The late great Lindsey Nelson Last edited by swoboda; 02-26-2016 at 12:16 PM.

02-26-2016, 12:15 PM	#24
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	Close the thread __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam. Last edited by Honorable_Pawn; 02-26-2016 at 12:17 PM.

02-26-2016, 02:43 PM	#26
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	Elimination number is much more useful for the following reasons: (1) With magic number, that only applies to the leading club, making the column a complete waste of space for every other club, whereas elimination number always makes full use of the column, resulting in a more aesthetically pleasing look. (2) The elimination number for the second-place club is the magic number for the first-place club, so it's not as if any information is being lost by switching to elimination number. (Indeed, information is being gained.) (3) Elimination number is more useful since it shows when clubs are officially out of the playoff running. Magic number is only useful for the first-place club, and yields no specific information for clubs in other positions. ETA: The way some are rejecting out-of-hand elimination number, in spite of its advantages outlined above, strikes me as being similar to those who reject sabermetric stats because they're not like the old stats they are used to. Never mind that the new stats are more useful, they're newfangled! Keep 'em off my lawn! Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 02-26-2016 at 02:46 PM.

02-26-2016, 04:35 PM	#32
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	It could be the tone of the debate.You guys should listen to what your whining sounds like read aloud. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

02-26-2016, 12:34 PM	#25
thirdsaint Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Chicago Posts: 364	I'm fine with the magic number. Instead, on the base Standings page I'd like to see Runs Scored, Runs Against, and a Run Differential and to fit these perhaps less room for the team names. My longest team name fills half the room it is allotted for and there's so much blank space there.

02-26-2016, 02:45 PM	#27
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,884	If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

02-26-2016, 04:15 PM	#31
pizzaddict Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 136	I too would prefer elimination number but I'm one of those fictional players so only 25% of my vote counts.

02-26-2016, 04:37 PM	#33
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	Elimination number makes the most sense to me, but I'm a historical player so my opinion is virtually worthless, not even good enough to scratch together a decent tip in a restaurant.

02-26-2016, 04:44 PM	#35
Germaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frankenthal, Germany Posts: 3,102	I can live with both, but being some kind of an old-timer I grew up with the magic number, so I'll stick with it. __________________ I'm going to have to meet my Maker some day. And if He asks me why I didn't let this boy play, and I say it's because he's black, that might not be a satisfactory answer. Happy Chandler, 1947

02-26-2016, 04:45 PM	#36
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	I wonder how many people voted on the poll thinking it was a choice between naming conventions. Probably a poorly-worded poll. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

02-26-2016, 06:10 PM	#39
andrewv500 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 33	I voted for elimination number. I had never really considered it before but to me it seems like a no-brainer for inclusion, somewhere within the expanded standings maybe? Reviewing that screen now I personally could do without the pythagorean record. Especially since that's tracked within the history screen and, in my opinion, not of tremendous value. I agree with those who have said that elimination number provides the magic number in reverse while providing tangible info for every other team. And aesthetically I don't find the magic number counting down on the standings screen all season to be appealing, even more so since it takes it up so much space to provide so little relevant data until late in the season. So if there had to be one, I choose elimination date. But also no reason to not have both, or maybe longer term, look towards making the standings screen customizable in regards to what data is shown in accordance to the user's preference much like the player search screen Last edited by andrewv500; 02-26-2016 at 06:12 PM.