Can someone please explain this to me??

[MKG1734]

How did Eric Hosmer get put on waivers and then claimed by another team?

As you can see in the screen shot, Hosmer hit 303 / 377 /444 (3.6 WAR) in the previous season .... and was hitting 343 / 370 / 588 (1.1 thru 30 games = 5.5 WAR over a full season) at the time he was put on waivers.

Things I don't want said in the explanation:
-Turn off ratings in the AI evaluation

Reason:
-It is. I have settings at 0% ratings, 60% current year, 35% last year, 5% 2 years ago (the reason being that the community suggested this structure in order to stop this issue.
-The other settings are all "default" or "out of the box"

With the AI Evaluation settings, Hosmer's evaluation level should be extremely high.

Now ... what is going on? Why does something so ridiculous happen? What, in the game, is not working properly that should be worked on?
It also needs to be stated ... this issue can be shown to occur over and over and over and over again with ALL ranges of AI Evaluation settings

[pgjocki]

He was getting ready for a huge pay day and the team thought it best to let him go for nothing.

I don't know man, but this happened in my league as well...and I use commish powers to put him back.

[RchW]

What other move did KC make? There has to be a trigger, rightly or wrongly.

Edited. I see that KC put him on waivers.

[MKG1734]

Originally Posted by RchW

What other move did Cleveland make? There has to be a trigger, rightly or wrongly.

I assume you mean Kansas City (who DFA'd Hosmer).

I'm glad you asked, bc it shows that the AI is behaving in an inexcusable manner..

This was their move...they called up this guy to MLB... a 27 yr old right-handed relief pitcher ... a guy who had never been in MLB before (and who has since been optioned back to AAA)

So ... the Royals DFA'd their starting 1B who was leading the league in hitting in order to get this guy into the major leagues.

Furthermore ... KCR's replacement at first base is Jorge Cantu. A marginal player who is 34 years old on a 1 year contract.

Therefore, the Royals gave up the leading hitting in the league FOR FREE in order to play a 34 year old marginal player on a 1 year contract and get a career minor leaguer into the rotation (who had only been a relief pitcher in AAA).

Can we agree that there is definitely something funky (wrong) with the AI decision making that should be concentrated on by the entire community and continuously tested in order to have the development team fix this?

[Curve Ball Dave]

The AI has been releasing two or three top players from teams each season with this version. Other teams are getting All Stars for a steal. It's really annoying and something I wish they'd have fixed by now.

[MKG1734]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

The AI has been releasing two or three top players from teams each season with this version. Other teams are getting All Stars for a steal. It's really annoying and something I wish they'd have fixed by now.

It is absolutely ridiculous. After you've played the game for a few hours and realize this has been going on and you didn't catch it ... it ruins the game. And you can't start over ... bc it just happens again. And then again.

OOTP: Stop adding new additional options to the game and fix these issues, first. They're game-breaking to anyone who has any baseball sense. If it takes 3 years to overhaul the transactions & in-game AI and not one new option is added....do it. What good is a new addition if the underlying game has these issues, still?

[Matt Arnold]

The roster logic is insanely difficult to manage, but I definitely agree in the above that a guy like Hosmer shouldn't be released in that case. You could make a case to trade him away (saving money and all that jazz), but yeah, should not be released.

[Biggio509]

The simple answer is the game is predetermined. KC knew he would drop off and only hit .280 later in the season.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

The AI has been releasing two or three top players from teams each season with this version. Other teams are getting All Stars for a steal. It's really annoying and something I wish they'd have fixed by now.

I think this is too broad an accusation. It's not happening to me or any league I play. I suspect it is only happening in one type of league. The question is why.

[Rain King]

The MLB roster set, for whatever reason, seems like a completely different beast compared to the rest of OOTP.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The MLB roster set, for whatever reason, seems like a completely different beast compared to the rest of OOTP.

There are a few reasons for that, I think. Rating spectrum is quite different, more players overall...

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by MKG1734

It is absolutely ridiculous. After you've played the game for a few hours and realize this has been going on and you didn't catch it ... it ruins the game. And you can't start over ... bc it just happens again. And then again.

OOTP: Stop adding new additional options to the game and fix these issues, first. They're game-breaking to anyone who has any baseball sense. If it takes 3 years to overhaul the transactions & in-game AI and not one new option is added....do it. What good is a new addition if the underlying game has these issues, still?

I can definitely understand why this sort of thing is frustrating. That being said, with years of nothing but polishing, no one would buy new games and the company would go broke. That's not even close to a realistic demand. The game is already far ahead of almost all other games in this genre and there's a great deal of time spent each version in fixing bugs, polishing and correcting issues that pop up, but there's no way that could ever be all that happens in a given version.

Additionally, this sort of thing tends to happen only in certain league setups and so far as I understand is extraordinarily difficult to replicate.

It's just not possible that every single possible combination of settings can be tested and optimized ai wise, there are always going to be some combos that lead to weird stuff happening. When it does, report it as a bug, upload your league files if requested, and Markus or Matt will certainly fix it wherever possible.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

The roster logic is insanely difficult to manage, but I definitely agree in the above that a guy like Hosmer shouldn't be released in that case. You could make a case to trade him away (saving money and all that jazz), but yeah, should not be released.

I wonder if some check could be put into the game where if the game wants to trade or release or waive a player and the difference in WAR or whatever between what they give up and what they gain (nothing in this case) is too much (I don't know what is too much, you decide) then the game tells itself to check other factors to make sure that it wants to make this move.

What did we do to solve that problem years ago when the game kept releasing high draft picks?

[sprague]

Happens in my fictional world too, usually like this w a player under 26 and not reached free agent age.

Oddly the game will also at the end of the season drop all under 24 age players to aaa. Even if they bat .400 there they are in the minors for the aff season. Then in pre season back they come, then once in a while they just release them.

It's very odd

[David Watts]

Would increasing the 40 man roster help stop something like this from happening? I think I remember reading a comment by The Wolf saying he sets his to 45(or in that vicinity). If so and it's not just something I concocted or dreamed up(oh no, does that mean I dream about The Wolf?) maybe Mr Wolf could comment on whether he see's this type of waiver problem.

[MKG1734]

Double Post

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by sprague

Happens in my fictional world too, usually like this w a player under 26 and not reached free agent age.

Oddly the game will also at the end of the season drop all under 24 age players to aaa. Even if they bat .400 there they are in the minors for the aff season. Then in pre season back they come, then once in a while they just release them.

It's very odd

I get the same thing happening in my indy league. AI teams are dumping all-star and award winners. Top 10 in the league guys before they reach the end of FA. Early in the start of new leagues it's financially crippling to teams and they are never able to recover from it. I've been trying to figure out what to change to curtail it from happening but nothing has worked.

The AI also does the move everyone 24 and under down (in my case to the reserve roster) every off season. But I've let it go since it doesn't really affect anything in my leagues.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by MKG1734

I assume you mean Kansas City (who DFA'd Hosmer).

I'm glad you asked, bc it shows that the AI is behaving in an inexcusable manner..

This was their move...they called up this guy to MLB... a 27 yr old right-handed relief pitcher ... a guy who had never been in MLB before (and who has since been optioned back to AAA)

So ... the Royals DFA'd their starting 1B who was leading the league in hitting in order to get this guy into the major leagues.

Furthermore ... KCR's replacement at first base is Jorge Cantu. A marginal player who is 34 years old on a 1 year contract.

Therefore, the Royals gave up the leading hitting in the league FOR FREE in order to play a 34 year old marginal player on a 1 year contract and get a career minor leaguer into the rotation (who had only been a relief pitcher in AAA).

Can we agree that there is definitely something funky (wrong) with the AI decision making that should be concentrated on by the entire community and continuously tested in order to have the development team fix this?

The bigger question I'd have with that is why did the AI put a 34 year old in rookie ball.

[MKG1734]

Happens in my fictional world too, usually like this w a player under 26 and not reached free agent age

+1

Additionally, this sort of thing tends to happen only in certain league setups and so far as I understand is extraordinarily difficult to replicate.

It's just not possible that every single possible combination of settings can be tested and optimized ai wise, there are always going to be some combos that lead to weird stuff happening. When it does, report it as a bug, upload your league files if requested, and Markus or Matt will certainly fix it wherever possible

Certain league setups? Ok: Try this: All default settings (the way the game comes out of the box), only with the AI Evaluation set to stress stats over ratings (since this is what the community says 'fixes' this issue). That's the game I play bc I want the game to work properly and default should work most properly. My guess is the default settings are what Matt & Markus generally test the game with and so should be easiest to work with.

That being said, with years of nothing but polishing, no one would buy new games and the company would go broke

Dangerous statement. I imagine many (most) of the people who play this game are somewhat analytically oriented. That would be the reason they are willing to play a game based on statistics rather than play the game where they control the hitters and pitchers manually. So, if we think that way .... why would an analytical person continue to buy the game that is clearly producing non-analytical results in a manner that could be considered game-breaking? Why would I want some exotic feature added to the game when the game, itself, is not producing proper results in the first place? And with 'too many' settings to test ... see above ... default settings. Default settings should be the point at which the game works in the most proper fashion with the least quirky results.

I get the same thing happening in my indy league. AI teams are dumping all-star and award winners. Top 10 in the league guys before they reach the end of FA. Early in the start of new leagues it's financially crippling to teams and they are never able to recover from it. I've been trying to figure out what to change to curtail it from happening but nothing has worked.

The AI also does the move everyone 24 and under down (in my case to the reserve roster) every off season. But I've let it go since it doesn't really affect anything in my leagues.

More evidence that not one thing should be worked on with regard to this game until transactions / in-game AI is either overhauled completely and at the very least, reworked in a manner that it operates correctly.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

There are a few reasons for that, I think. Rating spectrum is quite different, more players overall...

I think there is also less variance than a typical fictional game. That makes decisions hard for the AI. When one is rated at 100 and another at 80 it makes the decision easy. One guy is 81 and is 79 with different strengths and weaknesses it makes it harder. The less variance in ratings and performance the harder it is for the AI or a human to make a decision.