sign and release strikes again :)

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by frangipard

I'm not even sure it's all that unrealistic. In the NFL, which has a 53 man roster and a 10 man reserve, it's become pretty common practice for teams to have a guy that's on the bubble who gets released and resigned multiple times a year. 13 in one year is extreme, but stuff happens ...

Football Transactions Search Results

With the massive reserve roster for Indy teams, I just think of it as players they have scouted or worked out and are available in the team's player pool.

[endgame]

Simply stated, AI or human, the more limited our options, the more likely the options are utilized, rightly or wrongly. It's been said, we live the consequences of our choices.

My sentiments have always been if it's wrong for the game or shouldn't be done, then it shouldn't be allowed. But free will lives in the undercurrent of this gaming system, along with its variety. Markus takes the position that, excuse this phrase, dummy-proofing the game results in all of us playing the same predetermined game and loses its personal touch and affordability to immerse ourselves in worlds of our choosing.

Hell, I didn't choose the RL world I'm living in, but work within my limits most of the time, color outside the lines often, and reap my just rewards or punishments as a result. What it is, it is, I suppose. FWIW

[lt2cents]

Originally Posted by Sweed

...

Maybe as the game develops in the future this will be improved upon? Who knows, it will depend on time vs reward whether it is worth the coding effort.

The issue is fixable despite you saying it is not and it's been fixable for many versions. You just have to "pick your poison" as SMJ said. You want small rosters, live with the issue. You want the issue fixed, live with a large reserve roster. Simple as that.

The time for fixing this should be now.-- not the future. This program design flaw has been with us since the 2006 version -- maybe the reason back then was there was so much to do to get the first program version out that getting by with a simple roster handling system needed to be tolerated. But after 10 years -- revisit this and fix it. Don't tell us to get by with some slopped up roster limits that don't come close to simulating the real roster situations for these kind of leagues.

I have seen my leagues with many many players whose history shows multiple sign-release cycles OOTP tries to provide realistic simming in many ways -- now its time to make this aspect realistic.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by frangipard

I'm not even sure it's all that unrealistic. In the NFL, which has a 53 man roster and a 10 man reserve, it's become pretty common practice for teams to have a guy that's on the bubble who gets released and resigned multiple times a year. 13 in one year is extreme, but stuff happens ...

I'm not playing Football though I'm playing baseball. I know that it's done in football and it's done because teams can retain the rights to player even after releasing them. It's a trick built into the bylaws of the league. Release them on a Thursday bring in the player you want for the opponent you're facing. then bring them back the following Monday. It's been in the league since the 80s. Last I checked that didn't happen in baseball.

Originally Posted by Sweed

The issue is fixable despite you saying it is not and it's been fixable for many versions. You just have to "pick your poison" as SMJ said. You want small rosters, live with the issue. You want the issue fixed, live with a large reserve roster. Simple as that.

The "work around" described by SMJ is not a fix. He even stated it will still happen just less. Second a work around is not a fix. Fixed would mean it never happened again and you didn't have to have special conditions to get it done. Work around means doing something you don't want to do to get the outcome you want. Hence work around.

I do agree with what others have said though. Again that is the reason I put the smiley face in the thread title.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

It's not the games fault the game has a flaw? Or that the devs can't figure out how to fix it? Or that the default league settings aren't what the devs recommend? Sounds to me like it is the games fault.

As I said it's more comical then anything else and I'll take realism over 40 man rosters and unlimited reserve roster sizes. Perhaps down the road the devs will work on indy and international and minor leagues to try and prevent this from happening.

It's not the game's fault that this is happening. Pay attention to what everyone is telling you.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It's not the game's fault that this is happening. Pay attention to what everyone is telling you.

Dude I get it. The work around is using unlimited rosters. Doesn't mean the game isn't at fault.

Perhaps you need to pay more attention and not just blindly defend OOTP like you do constantly. The issue has been around for YEARS and the only answer (that doesn't even eliminate the issue 100%) is to set completely unrealistic parameters in your league setup. For a game that prides itself on realism it's really a black eye.

[David Watts]

I actually think the reserve roster limit problem was introduced in 15. Just did some fast sims using a 25 man reserve roster with 14. Didn't really see any problems. Did the same with 15 and there were several players that would get drafted, released, signed, released etc.

I noticed this last year playing 15 and just dealt with it by using unlimited reserve rosters. I was having teams draft studs like Nolan Ryan, Rusty Staub and such with their #1 pick in the amateur draft only to release them a month later.

[The Wolf]

Anyone who thinks I defend OOTP blindly must not have been here very long.

[Painmantle]

Actually if you go and look at Independent League Transactions listings (and they are available online), it isn't unusual for a player to be signed/released/traded/sold/exchanged for cash and future considerations/ several times in a season, Including being released by one team and signed by another in the same day.

[IsaacR]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

Dude I get it. The work around is using unlimited rosters. Doesn't mean the game isn't at fault.

Perhaps you need to pay more attention and not just blindly defend OOTP like you do constantly. The issue has been around for YEARS and the only answer (that doesn't even eliminate the issue 100%) is to set completely unrealistic parameters in your league setup. For a game that prides itself on realism it's really a black eye.

Some game settings (rosters, talent levels, etc.) do not work well with all the others. Doesn't mean the game has a problem, means that the user has a problem applying the correct settings to the game. There are bugs, and then there are user errors. This is a user error.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by IsaacR

Some game settings (rosters, talent levels, etc.) do not work well with all the others. Doesn't mean the game has a problem, means that the user has a problem applying the correct settings to the game. There are bugs, and then there are user errors. This is a user error.

And we have a winner!

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by IsaacR

Some game settings (rosters, talent levels, etc.) do not work well with all the others. Doesn't mean the game has a problem, means that the user has a problem applying the correct settings to the game. There are bugs, and then there are user errors. This is a user error.

It is a game problem because, as has been stated even by others, the problem still happens when using the recommended settings it just happens LESS. so it's still there the recommended settings just make it happen less.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And we have a winner!

Not really but go on thinking that.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I actually think the reserve roster limit problem was introduced in 15. Just did some fast sims using a 25 man reserve roster with 14. Didn't really see any problems. Did the same with 15 and there were several players that would get drafted, released, signed, released etc.

I noticed this last year playing 15 and just dealt with it by using unlimited reserve rosters. I was having teams draft studs like Nolan Ryan, Rusty Staub and such with their #1 pick in the amateur draft only to release them a month later.

It was around in 14 with the minor leagues for sure. It's the same thing that makes teams send down and call up players repeatedly over and over for days even in the off season. The issue has been around a long time. How and where it manifests has changed with the addition of the new league types.

I really think a lot of the problem has to do with the AI logic between the scout AI and the manager AI. The AI goes by what the scout says to draft a player or get a player from FA, or call up a player from a lower minor league.Once the player is on the team and the roster/manager logic takes over new AI says he this player isn't good enough. So he gets released/demoted. The the scout logic comes back in and says HEY this is the best available player or call him up. The cycle just continuously repeats till another team picks up the player like in my original post or something else happens to make the player stick in a specific team.

One of the weird things about it is that I've never seen it happen on a human controlled team even when you have the AI set to control everything. So even without user interference just having the team controlled by a user interrupts the process enough to make it not happen.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by IsaacR

Some game settings (rosters, talent levels, etc.) do not work well with all the others. Doesn't mean the game has a problem, means that the user has a problem applying the correct settings to the game. There are bugs, and then there are user errors. This is a user error.

If I create the very same league with 14 and 15, but one produces a problem when roster limits are used with reserve rosters, that's user error?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

It was around in 14 with the minor leagues for sure. It's the same thing that makes teams send down and call up players repeatedly over and over for days even in the off season. The issue has been around a long time. How and where it manifests has changed with the addition of the new league types.

I really think a lot of the problem has to do with the AI logic between the scout AI and the manager AI. The AI goes by what the scout says to draft a player or get a player from FA, or call up a player from a lower minor league.Once the player is on the team and the roster/manager logic takes over new AI says he this player isn't good enough. So he gets released/demoted. The the scout logic comes back in and says HEY this is the best available player or call him up. The cycle just continuously repeats till another team picks up the player like in my original post or something else happens to make the player stick in a specific team.

One of the weird things about it is that I've never seen it happen on a human controlled team even when you have the AI set to control everything. So even without user interference just having the team controlled by a user interrupts the process enough to make it not happen.

I hardly ever use minor leagues, so I wouldn't know.

[ezpkns34]

Originally Posted by David Watts

If I create the very same league with 14 and 15, but one produces a problem when roster limits are used with reserve rosters, that's user error?

If I'm the user, then probably

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

If I'm the user, then probably

I know that feeling

[Painmantle]

This particular problem has ZERO affect on game play, the issue that exist is between the ears of the OP and his inability to enjoy the game because some meaningless player in an independent league has a History full of sign and releases, I have 2 solutions for anyone who lets this little "bug" destroy their enjoyment, 1) don't look at his history anymore, 2) Edit his history and get rid of all the signings so you don't have to look at them.

The reason this is such a low priority (if it's even on the fix list) is because it has no affect on how the game plays. And elimination of it would possibly cause the transactions of an independent league to swing into the unrealistic realm of not enough transactions, then someone would complain about that. It's a lose/lose situation,

Do we expect OOTP to make little things like this a Top Priority when there are still much more pressing issues that actually have an impact on the way the game plays that need addressed?

I Know I don't

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

This particular problem has ZERO affect on game play, the issue that exist is between the ears of the OP and his inability to enjoy the game because some meaningless player in an independent league has a History full of sign and releases, I have 2 solutions for anyone who lets this little "bug" destroy their enjoyment, 1) don't look at his history anymore, 2) Edit his history and get rid of all the signings so you don't have to look at them.

The reason this is such a low priority (if it's even on the fix list) is because it has no affect on how the game plays. And elimination of it would possibly cause the transactions of an independent league to swing into the unrealistic realm of not enough transactions, then someone would complain about that. It's a lose/lose situation,

Do we expect OOTP to make little things like this a Top Priority when there are still much more pressing issues that actually have an impact on the way the game plays that need addressed?

I Know I don't

I agree that it isn't something that ruins my enjoyment of the game. Like I said earlier, I just use unlimited rosters for my historical/random debut leagues. I use small amateur drafts anyway, so roster size doesn't get too out of control. Plus, I think OOTP does a good job of shuffling talent around, so I don't really see a lot of great players wasting away on their teams reserve roster.

That being said, it does seem like a big deal when a bad team plays their way into the first pick in the amateur draft, selects a guy like Nolan Ryan, only to release him a month later, so a 1st place team can scoop him up. Oh, I never use the "Enable Advanced Draftee Signings" feature, so the release isn't money related. And I know OOTP doesn't know names, so it doesn't have a clue who Nolan Ryan is, but it damn well better know the potential of the guy I see named Nolan Ryan.

I would love to see this fixed, but it isn't a deal breaker for me.

[etothep]

While I personally have yet to see this happen, if it's happening to good players then I'd say it should count as a bug worth trying to fix. If it's happening to minor league fodder then I'd say who cares