Crazy Injury Numbers?

[Syd Thrift]

I don't really agree with the need to add an option to limit injury types. If you *really* want to do it, you can do it by monkeying with the injury file by changing all injury lengths to be no more than 15 days and also removing all season and career-ending types (I believe that if you have even one in there the game will use that one for all SEIs and CEIs). Since that's in a file, you could even post it to Padrefan's mod site for others who for whatever reason want to go this route to use.

Yeah, that's a bit of extra work but to be honest the game is already so heavily loaded with options that the setup screen alone makes the entry bar seem very, very high for the game. Every single little tick you add increases the complexity of the game a bit, and while I like complex a lot, I also like Markus being able to attract new customers from one season to the next.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I don't really agree with the need to add an option to limit injury types. If you *really* want to do it, you can do it by monkeying with the injury file by changing all injury lengths to be no more than 15 days and also removing all season and career-ending types (I believe that if you have even one in there the game will use that one for all SEIs and CEIs). Since that's in a file, you could even post it to Padrefan's mod site for others who for whatever reason want to go this route to use.

Yeah, that's a bit of extra work but to be honest the game is already so heavily loaded with options that the setup screen alone makes the entry bar seem very, very high for the game. Every single little tick you add increases the complexity of the game a bit, and while I like complex a lot, I also like Markus being able to attract new customers from one season to the next.

My question in regards to monkeying with that file is, will doing so make it so all other leagues have to use the edited file?

[Koprnkc]

Just wondering, how many would enjoy / complain about this if they actually made torn rotator cuffs, etc... CEI in stead of 9+months, pre TJ surgery.


Getting a lot of injuries sucks, but, dealing with it is part of being the GM.


Heck, I just lost my 1(3) pick AFTER 1 inning to a CEI injury, in rookie ball, this past season.

This is in 1930.


Guy was going to be a 20 year ACE I tell ya, well, at least to the teams fans.

[Syd Thrift]

Any league you create will use the injury.txt file to determine injury types/names/durations/etc. Once a league is created, changing that file will have no effect on the league until/unless you re-import it. For the life of me, I can't remember where that function is but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

[majesty95]

I just did a test sim on Twitch and started a current game with MLB rosters as the Twins. Phil Hughes went down for 8-9 months in his second start. Then Tommy Milone went down for 8 months. Then Ervin Santana went down for 5 months. My top pitching prospect, Jose Berrios, also went down for 11 months.

While most of the injuries were confined to the pitchers, I did lose Torii Hunter for 2-3 months also.

I would definitely say that it seems like major injuries are FAR too frequent. I don't think the total number of injuries is high, but the major injuries definitely seem to be.

[dewguru]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

In 1901, most teams used less than 25 players for the entire season, and several used less than 20.

1901 Major League Baseball Season Summary | Baseball-Reference.com

Yes... you're obviously missing the point...

[Steve509]

Bryce Harper is always injured in my game. I signed him as a FA a while back(at about 19,000,000 per year) and I'm lucky to get 115 games out of him now, he's also 36 years old in my game right now. After him I proceed with caution during free agency now.

[dewguru]

Here's another example of it being overboard.

New game, set my injury rate to be Very Low, since the previous play attempt didn't get any better.

Not even a month in, I lost my starting pitcher for 11 month Tommy John surgery. He was rated Durable and after flipping on Commish mode to take a look under the hood, I see that he's as durable as can be. He has only a 1 in all of his injury areas, save a 16 in arm (probably jumped 15 from the injury he just took).

So far in two play attempts, I've only one injury that was 2 weeks or less and a mind staggering eight that are 3-11 months in length.

I'm now leaning towards going in and resetting all players to uninjured in the league whenever it happens, which right now is about every other week.

[dewguru]

Alright, things do seem to have leveled off some. Second season wasn't the nightmare that the first was. After the first month, the worst injury was 3-4 weeks. Man, it was brutal though.

[Steve509]

Right on cue with Bryce Harper, he just ruptured his Achilles tendon and is out 4 months. I'll be lucky to have him for the playoffs, ugh.

[majesty95]

I think I've identified the problem.

I opened the injuries.txt file and there are some major injuries (specifically pitcher injuries) that are given a "4" or "5" or "common" frequency. Many of them (Torn PCL, UCL, labrum, elbow ligament, etc) are pitching related. Would explain why I lost 3 of my top 4 SP and my top P prospect to injuries of 5 months or more in season one. Seems that this may need to be addressed...

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by dewguru

Yes... you're obviously missing the point...

My points are:

1. Baseball injuries are common, far more common than almost all OOTP players like. Game play trumps realism for this subset. Real-life data does not matter. People don't like having to use 60 players in a year. Last season, the average AL team used 46 batters and 25 pitchers. Now, there will be some overlap in those categories, as some pitchers got to bat in NL park interleague games.
2. In 1901, almost all teams didn't use 25 players, and 25% of the league used 19 players. When injuries happened, they sucked it up with on-hand players. This leads to extremely few players in a specific year season reenactment.
3. In 1901, the roster rule was 14 players. It didn't change to 25 for more than a decade.

Facts and evidence are set aside in order to provide a happier initial gaming experience. If you want realism in your game, crank the injury setting to its highest level. Many hypothetical championship teams have foundered when hamstrings and elbows start popping. The winners in the end aren't so much champions as survivors.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by majesty95

I think I've identified the problem.

I opened the injuries.txt file and there are some major injuries (specifically pitcher injuries) that are given a "4" or "5" or "common" frequency. Many of them (Torn PCL, UCL, labrum, elbow ligament, etc) are pitching related. Would explain why I lost 3 of my top 4 SP and my top P prospect to injuries of 5 months or more in season one. Seems that this may need to be addressed...

You're free, of course, to modify your own injury.txt file, but the frequency of those injuries is based on quite a bit of research on the subject. Pitchers, frankly, get hurt a *lot* in real life.

[majesty95]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

You're free, of course, to modify your own injury.txt file, but the frequency of those injuries is based on quite a bit of research on the subject. Pitchers, frankly, get hurt a *lot* in real life.

They do but I don't think that pitchers suffer the serious (3 months plus) amount of injuries that we are currently seeing. I think torn labrums, UCLs, PCLs and elbow ligaments being set at 4 or 5 makes them far too frequent.

I'm not saying that they aren't researched and based on sound evidence. I'm just saying that they way they were entered and how the game handles them does not seem to be realistic IMO.My sample size has been small, but its seems pretty consistent with several others and the injury file kind of backed up what I thought.

I'm all for injuries. I have no problem using the DL and calling guys up. I just don't want to see 4 of my top 5 pitchers in my system suffer season ending injuries in the first two months of play...

[Syd Thrift]

Yes, in fact they do, and again, in fact, this is borne out by evidence. I remember the dev and beta teams doing some very in-depth research to uncover this (I believe that may have been one of the years I was on it). In a 2 week span in spring training, just as an indicative example, 4 pitchers were lost for the season with injury.

That being said, if you feel the rates are too high, here's what you can do to effect change:

- Get a hold of league-wide injury data (I believe a link was posted to this year's IR so far and I think that stuff's archived as well).
- Sim 40 or 50 seasons or so in OOTP to get a nice sample size.
- Compare the results.

My point is that this has already been done and that's why the injury rates are where they are. That being said, if you've got more than just a feeling that the ratings are too high, by all means, provide the data that proves this.

[Mat]

Confirmation bias anyone?

[Markus Heinsohn]

There is no issue at all. In fact, injuries in OOTP on the default setting are less common than in real life. So, if someone thinks injuries are too high, he either does not know how common they really are or he simply had bad luck. That's life

[anson283]

You could always take it out on the trainer and fire him :P

[pucku33]

Originally Posted by majesty95

They do but I don't think that pitchers suffer the serious (3 months plus) amount of injuries that we are currently seeing. I think torn labrums, UCLs, PCLs and elbow ligaments being set at 4 or 5 makes them far too frequent.

I'm not saying that they aren't researched and based on sound evidence. I'm just saying that they way they were entered and how the game handles them does not seem to be realistic IMO.My sample size has been small, but its seems pretty consistent with several others and the injury file kind of backed up what I thought.

I'm all for injuries. I have no problem using the DL and calling guys up. I just don't want to see 4 of my top 5 pitchers in my system suffer season ending injuries in the first two months of play...

If you don't want realistic injuries, just edit the file and be done with it. I happen to enjoy the challenge of injuries. Real teams have to deal with injuries and the champions are the one's that overcome those adversities, replace them with solid depth players and do their best with the cards that were dealt.

Example: last year I took the Pirates and had the 1st overall pick, that pick turned out to be a stud pitcher who had a CEI in his first inning of R-ball. I laughed it off and tried to make due. This year, I took the mariners and lost a couple of decent pieces, Cruz for a month and one of the SS for 2 months while on normal setting. I'm about 100 games into the first season and have had 5-6 injuries. The only one currently injured is the SS.

EDIT: The VERY next game after posting this.. Taijuan Walker out 5 months, Seth Smith out 6 weeks and Cruz DtD. Karma?

[Syd Thrift]

I remember when injurylog first put this out and the fact of the matter is that basically every sports game you've ever played has had injuries dialed in too low. This makes a lot of sense for AAA titles like MLB: The Show or Madden - chances are you bought those games so you could play Mike Trout or Marshawn Lynch (OR WHOEVER) and if they suffer a cataclysmic injury, you may as well restart the game because there goes your fun. OOTP however is a GM's sim and as such dealing with lots and lots of injuries - as many as occur in real life - ought to be a part of the game.