Out at the Plate: Rare? - Page 2

RchW · 05-13-2014, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Why? Why would you even begin that argument? In what world has that argument ever done any good for anyone?

Hostile or what?

Not aware that I was arguing something controversial. Merely pointing out the obvious.

joefromchicago · 05-13-2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

It would be difficult to see it ever because if the runner is thrown out there is no passed ball or wild pitch.

Haven't we had this discussion before? As I dimly recall, the gripe was that OOTP doesn't recreate situations where a runner is thrown out attempting to advance on a possible passed ball or wild pitch. According to MLB rules: "In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and therunner is put out trying to advance, the official scorer shall not charge any 'caught stealing'" (comment to Rule 10.07(h)). So the play would simply be scored as a put-out, with no steal attempt registered. OOTP, however, only allows for situations where a runner is thrown out attempting to steal. In other words, there's no situation where a runner is put out (say, 2-4 or 2-6) and not charged with a "caught stealing." That, I think, is the problem.

RchW · 05-13-2014, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Haven't we had this discussion before? As I dimly recall, the gripe was that OOTP doesn't recreate situations where a runner is thrown out attempting to advance on a possible passed ball or wild pitch. According to MLB rules: "In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and therunner is put out trying to advance, the official scorer shall not charge any 'caught stealing'" (comment to Rule 10.07(h)). So the play would simply be scored as a put-out, with no steal attempt registered. OOTP, however, only allows for situations where a runner is thrown out attempting to steal. In other words, there's no situation where a runner is put out (say, 2-4 or 2-6) and not charged with a "caught stealing." That, I think, is the problem.

The correct term AFAIK is "runner out advancing". Check out Baseball Reference. It's a very useful stat.

joefromchicago · 05-13-2014, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

The correct term AFAIK is "runner out advancing". Check out Baseball Reference. It's a very useful stat.

I don't think the problem is that OOTP doesn't get the terminology right, but rather that OOTP doesn't recreate that situation ever. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I don't recall ever seeing a "runner out advancing" in any play-by-play.

megamanmatt · 05-13-2014, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I don't think the problem is that OOTP doesn't get the terminology right, but rather that OOTP doesn't recreate that situation ever. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I don't recall ever seeing a "runner out advancing" in any play-by-play.

Well another part of the problem is that statistically it works itself out in OOTP so it's another issue that is really specific only to those who play every game out.

RchW · 05-13-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I don't think the problem is that OOTP doesn't get the terminology right, but rather that OOTP doesn't recreate that situation ever. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I don't recall ever seeing a "runner out advancing" in any play-by-play.

We should ask Markus.

Does the game include outs that would be classified as "runner out advancing"?

I'm quite sure I've seen it but also quite sure that I could be mistaken.

megamanmatt · 05-13-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

We should ask Markus.

Does the game include outs that would be classified as "runner out advancing"?

I'm quite sure I've seen it but also quite sure that I could be mistaken.

I honest to god haven't seen it once in all the game's I've played out over all the versions of OOTP I've played. Some are obviously because those versions didn't have the play at all

but since it's inclusion if I'd seen it even once, or even though I had, I'd also be taking your position. So I get your side of it.

That's why I like avoiding this argument. Because initially everyone misunderstands so it's like two different conversations happening simultaiously. I'd rather we all just complain about me over reacting. At least it's a little newer.

joefromchicago · 05-13-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Well another part of the problem is that statistically it works itself out in OOTP so it's another issue that is really specific only to those who play every game out.

That's probably right. In the scorer's book, it would simply be noted as "runner out advancing 2-4" or something like that. In the live play-by-play, though, it would be something like: "the pitcher checks the runner on first ... here's the pitch ... it gets away from the catcher! ... there goes the runner ... the catcher retrieves the ball ... he throws to second ... the runner's OUT!" In the end, it's no different from a runner getting thrown out attempting to steal, except that he doesn't get charged with a CS.

pjh5165 · 05-13-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

That's probably right. In the scorer's book, it would simply be noted as "runner out advancing 2-4" or something like that. In the live play-by-play, though, it would be something like: "the pitcher checks the runner on first ... here's the pitch ... it gets away from the catcher! ... there goes the runner ... the catcher retrieves the ball ... he throws to second ... the runner's OUT!" In the end, it's no different from a runner getting thrown out attempting to steal, except that he doesn't get charged with a CS.

Yes this is exactly what I meant. Sorry, I should have phrased my original post better to say "when a pitch goes by the catcher" rather than calling it a WP or PB.

Chief Nocahoma · 05-16-2014, 05:55 PM

It's kinda like that play long ago when Sid Bream tried to score from 2nd base on a base hit by Francisco Cabrera. To this day every time I see that play he is ALWAYS safe. For some reason Barry Bonds just can't throw him out. Think there will be a patch to fix THAT?

Donevyn · 05-17-2014, 10:21 AM

I still see on hit's to the outfield, runner moving to 3rd, then trying for home (no conditions about outfielder arm or how far the ball was hit, just say's in log, '...runner trying going for home), almost always 'safe!'. (and usually too, no 'cut-off'). I honestly don't think I've seen one out at home in 25-30 plays of this type.

05-17-2014, 10:21 AM	#31
Donevyn Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: UP, WA Posts: 360	I still see on hit's to the outfield, runner moving to 3rd, then trying for home (no conditions about outfielder arm or how far the ball was hit, just say's in log, '...runner trying going for home), almost always 'safe!'. (and usually too, no 'cut-off'). I honestly don't think I've seen one out at home in 25-30 plays of this type. Last edited by Donevyn; 05-17-2014 at 10:22 AM.

05-16-2014, 05:55 PM	#30
Chief Nocahoma Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 7	It's kinda like that play long ago when Sid Bream tried to score from 2nd base on a base hit by Francisco Cabrera. To this day every time I see that play he is ALWAYS safe. For some reason Barry Bonds just can't throw him out. Think there will be a patch to fix THAT?