The future of football?

[David Watts]

The other day I heard Chris Collinsworth on a talk show and they asked him about the concussion/head injury issue. Collinsworth said he could see this leading to the end of the sport at the high school level. He said that the NFL can afford the lawsuits and to a certain extent so can colleges, but let a high school get hit with a lawsuit and you will see school boards shutting down the sport completely. Also heard a sociology prof state that football will become what he called a ghetto sport in the near future as more and more parents tell their kids they can't participate in the game. Just curious what y'all think.

[Questdog]

I think there is a simple solution: Get rid of helmets and shoulder pads.

Now this may seem counterproductive, but I truly believe that a man with no helmet is going to take better care of his noggin and the helmets and shoulder pads only dish out more damage than they protect against.

They play rugby without the protective gear and there is no reason why football cannot.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I think there is a simple solution: Get rid of helmets and shoulder pads.

Now this may seem counterproductive, but I truly believe that a man with no helmet is going to take better care of his noggin and the helmets and shoulder pads only dish out more damage than they protect against.

They play rugby without the protective gear and there is no reason why football cannot.

Agreed. Shoulder pads and elbow pads in Hockey are a big part of the concussion problem in that sport. To me each sport could mandate an end to hard shell protection equipment. Softening the exterior along with the increased risk of injury should help. Not very likely though.

When I played football and hockey it hurt me to hit someone. I had to pick my spots. Players today are built like tanks but they don't understand that too much protection on the body will not protect the brain from slamming into the skull on impact from another player who also feels impervious.

[Orioles1966]

Mike Francesa(WFAN-NY) just said that he heard that Bret Farve has admitted to some serious memory loss issues.

I can't see football as it's played today being the same game 20 yrs from now.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

Mike Francesa(WFAN-NY) just said that he heard that Bret Farve has admitted to some serious memory loss issues.

I can't see football as it's played today being the same game 20 yrs from now.

I read some of the Farve comments. Sad. Then you have Richard Sherman of the Seahawks saying that the NFL is just getting in the way by trying to enforce safety rules. Said he got hit in his first start, couldn't see straight, but kept it to himself and played the rest of the game, getting a key interception. Said he would do the same again. He claims NFL players know the risks involved, but have also seen other players get hurt and lose their jobs.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by RchW

To me each sport could mandate an end to hard shell protection equipment.

Will this include baseball's batting helmets?

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Will this include baseball's batting helmets?

They used to play without helmets (gloves too)....then a fella was killed by a beaning to the head and baseball made everybody where helmets.....35 years later.....

Helmets are fine in baseball, but I'd feel like a wuss wearing the forearm guards and shin guards......

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Will this include baseball's batting helmets?

No because the subject was Football and Hockey.

[Faroo6]

We should take guns out of hunting too. Someone might get shot. Every sport has a risk of inherent danger. It comes with the territory. You put on pads and a helmet you might get brain damage. You drive a car, you might get killed in an accident. Same thing. They know the risks now. Usually everyone signs a waiver to play sports at each level. You might just end up with lawyers tightening up the wording to make it so that there are no more lawsuits against schools, colleges, NFL teams.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Faroo6

We should take guns out of hunting too. Someone might get shot. Every sport has a risk of inherent danger. It comes with the territory. You put on pads and a helmet you might get brain damage. You drive a car, you might get killed in an accident. Same thing. They know the risks now. Usually everyone signs a waiver to play sports at each level. You might just end up with lawyers tightening up the wording to make it so that there are no more lawsuits against schools, colleges, NFL teams.

^^^ This (except for the gun reference). Pretty much what I was thinking; I don't know about the high school level, but probably for college and certainly the pros, all it is going to take is a system of stronger and more encompassing waivers of liability to meet this challenge. Too much money is at stake, especially for the players who, I believe, will be quite willing to take the risk, sign the waiver, and go for the gold.

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

^^^ This (except for the gun reference). Pretty much what I was thinking; I don't know about the high school level, but probably for college and certainly the pros, all it is going to take is a system of stronger and more encompassing waivers of liability to meet this challenge. Too much money is at stake, especially for the players who, I believe, will be quite willing to take the risk, sign the waiver, and go for the gold.

The health and mental well-being of minors? **** 'em, there's money to be made!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Faroo6

We should take guns out of hunting too. Someone might get shot. Every sport has a risk of inherent danger. It comes with the territory. You put on pads and a helmet you might get brain damage. You drive a car, you might get killed in an accident. Same thing. They know the risks now. Usually everyone signs a waiver to play sports at each level. You might just end up with lawyers tightening up the wording to make it so that there are no more lawsuits against schools, colleges, NFL teams.

Don't be silly. No one has said anything remotely like that.

I don't think anybody misunderstands the inherent risks involved. What is happening is better informed parents, and often kids themselves are looking carefully at the odds of making it vs the risk of catastrophic injury and deciding to look for alternative pursuits. Quality of life matters much more to the non-desperate.

Waivers are worthless for the most part especially if a catastrophic injury comes from an illegal play. Even if it's just an accident the signing of a waiver does not release any entity from possible legal action. Just as it should be.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Faroo6

We should take guns out of hunting too. Someone might get shot. Every sport has a risk of inherent danger. It comes with the territory. You put on pads and a helmet you might get brain damage. You drive a car, you might get killed in an accident. Same thing. They know the risks now. Usually everyone signs a waiver to play sports at each level. You might just end up with lawyers tightening up the wording to make it so that there are no more lawsuits against schools, colleges, NFL teams.

The difference is that you need some kind of weapon to hunt......pads and helmets don't have anything to do with the game of football.....

[magiccitydawg]

The facemask was the worst thing to come along in football, because it gave the defense something else to grab on to. I would like to see the stats on neck injuries since the facemask came along as opposed to the days when they didn't have it. I would agree with others in saying get rid of the helmets and pads. I have watched some rugby and they appear to be in good health.

[Tib]

We can debate this until we're all blue in the face but no one is stopping football --not injuries or safety groups or parents or lawsuits or Chris Collinsworth. It's too much a part of the American fabric.

Taking pads and helmets out of football is an even worse idea. It's a contact sport. You have to provide some protection, especially to minors in high school, etc. Until they prove that the protection is actually causing the injuries they are meant to safeguard they won't do a thing about it.

Just because rugby players do not use helmets does not mean they are concussion-free. And I don't see a lot of head to head contact in rugby. Tackling, yes. Scrums, yes, but not the kind of helmet to helmet impact common in football.

And I'm willing to bet there are far more leg and knee injuries in football at any level than concussions. I think it's far more likely they will require knee braces as standard equipment than take away helmets and shoulder pads.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

^^^ This (except for the gun reference). Pretty much what I was thinking; I don't know about the high school level, but probably for college and certainly the pros, all it is going to take is a system of stronger and more encompassing waivers of liability to meet this challenge. Too much money is at stake, especially for the players who, I believe, will be quite willing to take the risk, sign the waiver, and go for the gold.

Except, Bruce (I only allow me to talk back to myself ), if you kill the roots (high school level), you kill the sport. However, see Tib's post.

Originally Posted by RchW

Waivers are worthless for the most part especially if a catastrophic injury comes from an illegal play. Even if it's just an accident the signing of a waiver does not release any entity from possible legal action. Just as it should be.

I'm no lawyer but I have the same thought about you.

Originally Posted by Tib

We can debate this until we're all blue in the face but no one is stopping football --not injuries or safety groups or parents or lawsuits or Chris Collinsworth. It's too much a part of the American fabric.

Taking pads and helmets out of football is an even worse idea. It's a contact sport. You have to provide some protection, especially to minors in high school, etc. Until they prove that the protection is actually causing the injuries they are meant to safeguard they won't do a thing about it.

Just because rugby players do not use helmets does not mean they are concussion-free. And I don't see a lot of head to head contact in rugby. Tackling, yes. Scrums, yes, but not the kind of helmet to helmet impact common in football.

And I'm willing to bet there are far more leg and knee injuries in football at any level than concussions. I think it's far more likely they will require knee braces as standard equipment than take away helmets and shoulder pads.

Excellent post.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Tib

Just because rugby players do not use helmets does not mean they are concussion-free. And I don't see a lot of head to head contact in rugby. Tackling, yes. Scrums, yes, but not the kind of helmet to helmet impact common in football.

That is my whole point.....The only reason you see the helmet-to-helmet contact is because the idiots use the helmet as a weapon....the rugby players know better than to stick their noggin where it shouldn't ought to be.....and shoulder pads were designed as weapons in the first place, not to protect......the only thing that threatens a players shoulders with serious hurt are the helmets and someone else having shoulder pads....and they are not pads, they are armor.....thigh pads are pads....

[Syd Thrift]

I agree with removing shoulder pads. They remove a lot of the chances of breaking your shoulder on a big hit but it's clear that the moral hazard is too high. Helmets, though, I just don't know. Before plastic helmets were instituted death on the field was not an uncommon occurrence. In 1909 33 players died of injuries suffered in college or high school games (this was before the NFL and the pros were tiny). The face mask is another necessary evil because without it guys would tackle to the face (which is exactly what a lot of players did in the 40s and 50s).

All this means that I personally do not see an easy resolution and I think that means the sport is in danger of becoming like boxing, which is a notoriously poor man's sport. In particular I simply don't see how you keep offensive linemen from using their heads in blocking (and the NFL has done little to nothing to combat this, going so far as to make exceptions to the crown rule when you're inside the tackles). Sadly a huge portion of NFL cte victims are offensive linemen like Mike Webster.

[Orioles1966]

The NFL is more concerned with the name Redskins than they are about player safety.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

All this means that I personally do not see an easy resolution and I think that means the sport is in danger of becoming like boxing, which is a notoriously poor man's sport.

I'd suggest that it is there already. The SI report on former Oklahoma St. football players was disturbing.

Sports Illustrated's series on Oklahoma St. football: the fallout - College Football - SI.com