When using a SP in the bullpen, does it matter if he is labeld as a SP or MR?

[Tyler87898]

Are these labels just for show, or do they affect how the pitchers rest? I know the stuff of a pitcher will increase slightly when you change an SP to a MR/CL.

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by Tyler87898

Are these labels just for show, or do they affect how the pitchers rest? I know the stuff of a pitcher will increase slightly when you change an SP to a MR/CL.

You answered your own question, didn't you? The stuff improves but he will get tired quicker as an MR, although between outings he will recover quicker too. that's more than just for show, I would think.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Tyler87898

Are these labels just for show, or do they affect how the pitchers rest? I know the stuff of a pitcher will increase slightly when you change an SP to a MR/CL.

They do affect a pitcher's rest status. Take a "Slightly Tired" MR, switch him to a SP, and watch his status drop to "Exhausted". The other thing it affects is how quickly a pitcher tires when in-game. If the pitcher starting the game is set as a MR, he'll probably last 40-60 pitches (depending on stamina) before he starts to tire. If he's set as a SP, he'll generally be able to throw 90+ pitches.

I believe the reasoning behind this is to cut down on the exploitation of the game - as you said, most pitchers generally have higher Stuff ratings when used as MRs. But with this system, keeping a pitcher set to MR for his higher Stuff and starting the game with him only nets you about 3-4 innings of quality pitching.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

They do affect a pitcher's rest status. Take a "Slightly Tired" MR, switch him to a SP, and watch his status drop to "Exhausted". The other thing it affects is how quickly a pitcher tires when in-game. If the pitcher starting the game is set as a MR, he'll probably last 40-60 pitches (depending on stamina) before he starts to tire. If he's set as a SP, he'll generally be able to throw 90+ pitches.

I believe the reasoning behind this is to cut down on the exploitation of the game - as you said, most pitchers generally have higher Stuff ratings when used as MRs. But with this system, keeping a pitcher set to MR for his higher Stuff and starting the game with him only nets you about 3-4 innings of quality pitching.

Good information, thank you!

[Greg Putnam]

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

You answered your own question, didn't you? The stuff improves but he will get tired quicker as an MR, although between outings he will recover quicker too. that's more than just for show, I would think.

I had a game Sunday that went extra innings. I had checked "no" that I didn't want my starters in the bullpen. Well I ran out of relievers. Had I checked "yes", would my starters have thrown an inning or two if needed?

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by Greg Putnam

I had a game Sunday that went extra innings. I had checked "no" that I didn't want my starters in the bullpen. Well I ran out of relievers. Had I checked "yes", would my starters have thrown an inning or two if needed?

Yes.

[Greg Putnam]

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

Yes.

What about fielders? Would AI mgr go to them if necessary?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Greg Putnam

What about fielders? Would AI mgr go to them if necessary?

IIRC They can do, yes.

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by Greg Putnam

What about fielders? Would AI mgr go to them if necessary?

In the pitching system for 14 this is harder to accomplish. In 13 and prior all players with pitching ratings are listed on the pitching staff screen and I would sometimes list a fielder with pitching ratings as the mop-up reliever for minor league teams because they would more often be in blow-out games or run through the staff quickly in high scoring games. It worked very well.

In 14 only primary position pitchers are listed on the pitching staff screen, not all players with pitching ratings, so you have to designate a fielder as a pitcher ahead of time to get him on that screen and assign a role to him. Of course if you are playing out the games you can put anybody in as the pitcher.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

If the pitcher starting the game is set as a MR, he'll probably last 40-60 pitches (depending on stamina) before he starts to tire. If he's set as a SP, he'll generally be able to throw 90+ pitches.

I believe the reasoning behind this is to cut down on the exploitation of the game - as you said, most pitchers generally have higher Stuff ratings when used as MRs. But with this system, keeping a pitcher set to MR for his higher Stuff and starting the game with him only nets you about 3-4 innings of quality pitching.

I don't know if that is true. My understanding was since OOTP 13, OOTP treats a player that starts a game as a SP and a pitcher that enters a game as a MR regardless of their actual designation. So, a MR with say 8 Stuff (1-10 scale) while listed as a MR, but 6 Stuff as a SP would be a 6 when he starts regardless what his current designation is.

I have some support for this as I had 2 different MR start games recently with both of them pitching complete games (0 and 2 ER). I also had another pitcher average just under 7 innings per start with a 2.63 ERA in 8 starts, all while listed as a MR.

The MR / SP affecting in-game performance may have been true in earlier versions, but I'm certain Markus corrected the code with OOTP 13 so a pitcher's designated role didn't matter, only the way he was being used.

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

They do affect a pitcher's rest status. Take a "Slightly Tired" MR, switch him to a SP, and watch his status drop to "Exhausted".

This part is correct as the level of "tiredness" depends on pitches thrown and pitching role. Between games, anyway.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

In the pitching systen for 14 this is harder to accomplish. In 13 and prior all players with pitching ratings are listed on the pitching staff screen and I would sometimes list a fielder with pitching ratings as the mop-up reliever for minor league teams because they would more often be in blow-out games or run through the staff quickly in high scoring games. It worked very well.

In 14 only primary position pitchers are listed on the pitching staff screen, not all players with pitching ratings, so you have to designate a fielder as a pitcher ahead of time to get him on that screen and assign a role to him. Of course if you are playing out the games you can put anybody in as the pitcher.

I think an AI manager will still use a position player to pitch if they use their whole bullpen though.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think an AI manager will still use a position player to pitch if they use their whole bullpen though.

Run an experiment and see.

[goalieump413]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I don't know if that is true. My understanding was since OOTP 13, OOTP treats a player that starts a game as a SP and a pitcher that enters a game as a MR regardless of their actual designation. So, a MR with say 8 Stuff (1-10 scale) while listed as a MR, but 6 Stuff as a SP would be a 6 when he starts regardless what his current designation is.

I have some support for this as I had 2 different MR start games recently with both of them pitching complete games (0 and 2 ER). I also had another pitcher average just under 7 innings per start with a 2.63 ERA in 8 starts, all while listed as a MR.

The MR / SP affecting in-game performance may have been true in earlier versions, but I'm certain Markus corrected the code with OOTP 13 so a pitcher's designated role didn't matter, only the way he was being used.


This part is correct as the level of "tiredness" depends on pitches thrown and pitching role. Between games, anyway.

I can back this up too. I had a MR start pitching as a starter about 1/3 the way through the season a couple of seasons ago, while my manager, Eric Wedge (M's) ignored one of his actual SP's, using him only in relief. I am the GM, and don't set lineups, etc.

That MR pitched well throughout the season (I'm still at work so I don't have a history page screencap for ya), and was arguably a better performer than the SP he replaced in the rotation. And, to make matters more cornfusing, Wedge must have believed he saw something I didn't. The MR in question had a much lower stamina rating.

Now, I don't play out the games, I just click the checkbox to advance each day, simming the games. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Syd Thrift]

I still see the occasional SS or other IF showing up as a MR on the pitching screen, FWIW.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I don't know if that is true. My understanding was since OOTP 13, OOTP treats a player that starts a game as a SP and a pitcher that enters a game as a MR regardless of their actual designation. So, a MR with say 8 Stuff (1-10 scale) while listed as a MR, but 6 Stuff as a SP would be a 6 when he starts regardless what his current designation is.

This is my understanding also (don't remember the source of the info). The changes you see when you switch between SP/MR are how their USE will affect their ratings. I believe is the pitcher is used as a SP his ratings get treated as a SP regardless of what the role the GM set is. Same for MR.

I did some limited testing and posted the results HERE