Who scouts draft?

patsfan14 · 06-19-2003, 01:31 PM

Why is 'Joe Average Scout' the scout for every team during the amatuer draft. Shouldn't each teams own scout be evaluating the amatuer talent?

kq76 · 06-19-2003, 02:09 PM

Perhaps so no one has an unfair advantage? But yeah, you're right, what's the point of scouts if there's no advantages.

yabanci · 06-20-2003, 02:26 AM

This makes no sense at all to me. I like the scouts, but if you are going to have scouts it should be consistent and it should be your scout evaluating talent in every part of the game, not your scout here, the other team's scout there, an average scout somewhere else, etc., etc. (at least in manager mode).

ChipperStillRules10 · 06-20-2003, 02:33 AM

Thats right

scoobz0202 · 06-20-2003, 02:42 AM

I agree.. what is the point of the scouts.. what the hel* are they scouting?

El Caballo · 06-20-2003, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scoobz0202
I agree.. what is the point of the scouts.. what the hel* are they scouting?

I 2nd that.

Skipaway · 06-20-2003, 03:52 AM

A championship manager style of scouting might be a directions that worth considering and closer to real life, in which a team have to hire multiple scouts and assign them to multiple tasks.

You can have one scout working on prospects in the southern region, one advance scouting the division rivalry that's coming up in the next series, while another checking out the minor leaguers of the team who wants your veteran SS.

That would make the draft more exciting instead of picking by "the official .400 Studio prospects ranking"

This can also spice up the trades.......

Markus Heinsohn · 06-20-2003, 03:55 AM

This is only the case in online leagues, isn't it??

holyroller · 06-20-2003, 04:49 AM

With manager mode on, you can only see what your team is scouting. What the computer teams are doing you cannot see and there is no reason to assume that it is doing anything other than using each team's scout.

With manager mode off, I just ran a quick test. I used an initial draft and set all teams to human. I then picked one player to scout. Todd Pratt was rated 6 in average, 4 in home runs, and 9 in drawing walks by the Detroit Tigers, who had the first pick. With the second pick, the New York Mets rated Pratt 6, 4, 10. I then set the league to on-line, the Mets rated Pratt 6,4, 9.

The last line is what really made me confused. The two teams had different ratings which would indicate that the teams were not using the same scout, but if that was the case, why would toggling on-line league on give a different result? I have no idea if it is using the same scout or not, but it seems obvious that when you view a players ratings, even with your own scout, you will not get a consistent result.

Markus Heinsohn · 06-20-2003, 08:00 AM

Hmm... gotta check the code

asamford · 06-20-2003, 12:16 PM

There was also an interesting problem that cropped up in the JBL just yesterday. Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the first pick was a player who's ratings were displayed as 6/4/6/6 (pitcher - reduced ratings). As soon as he was drafted, his ratings were viewed by his team to be 2/4/6/6. Needless to say, the owner wasn't so happy. I know there was a problem in the past where the amateur player ratings weren't accurate when viewing HTML, but I thought that they had always been accurate when viewing in game, this is the first I've heard of there being a problem, in that regards.

KurtBevacqua · 06-20-2003, 03:52 PM

I like the multiple scout idea. It's what TCY Football does. I also like the idea of having a separate GM mode where you can hire a manager with certain characteristics to include baseball strategy. You could have Billy Ball or Whitey Ball or some other such thing.

yabanci · 06-20-2003, 08:41 PM

Front Office Football 4 also is much better in terms of scouting. There you always look at players through your scout's eyes (and the scouts ratings are more detailed, such as evaluating young talent. evaluating certain positions, etc.). For the draft, all players are given an overall rating by a league consensus scout, but you still evaluate the player's talent using your scout. So you can look at the consensus on the player and check it against your scout's opinion, and decide who to draft in light of your particular scout's strengh's and weaknesses. This to me is realistic. OOTP, where apparently on some screens you are getting the evaluation of another team's scout, an average scout, or who knows what, is not realistic and seems like a big flaw in the game.

yabanci · 06-20-2003, 09:00 PM

When I became troubled by the ootp scouting system was one day when I was in the league leaders section looking for a potential trade candidate. I looked at a player and happened to make a note of his talent ratings (I play talent only). Then I went to the roster of the player's team to see where he was hitting in the lineup and noticed that his ratings were different on the roster screen than on league leaders screen. So I went back to the league leaders screen and checked the player again and his ratings had changed to what was shown in roster screen. So I thought maybe I originally wrote down the rating wrong. So i checked a different player, and the same thing happened. If I remember correctly, I then went to the trade screen and saw a third set of ratings for the same player. At this point I lost confidence in the ootp scouting system.

I just checked this again):

Garciaparra
Leaders: G B F G A G
Roster: G B F A A G

Pujols
Leaders: B B F B A G
Roster: B G F B G A

So not only are the ratings different in these two screens, they actually change when you go back and forth between them.

06-19-2003, 01:31 PM	#1
patsfan14 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 11	Who scouts draft? Why is 'Joe Average Scout' the scout for every team during the amatuer draft. Shouldn't each teams own scout be evaluating the amatuer talent?

06-19-2003, 02:09 PM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,787	Perhaps so no one has an unfair advantage? But yeah, you're right, what's the point of scouts if there's no advantages. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

06-20-2003, 03:52 AM	#7
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	A championship manager style of scouting might be a directions that worth considering and closer to real life, in which a team have to hire multiple scouts and assign them to multiple tasks. You can have one scout working on prospects in the southern region, one advance scouting the division rivalry that's coming up in the next series, while another checking out the minor leaguers of the team who wants your veteran SS. That would make the draft more exciting instead of picking by "the official .400 Studio prospects ranking" This can also spice up the trades....... __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

06-20-2003, 04:49 AM	#9
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	With manager mode on, you can only see what your team is scouting. What the computer teams are doing you cannot see and there is no reason to assume that it is doing anything other than using each team's scout. With manager mode off, I just ran a quick test. I used an initial draft and set all teams to human. I then picked one player to scout. Todd Pratt was rated 6 in average, 4 in home runs, and 9 in drawing walks by the Detroit Tigers, who had the first pick. With the second pick, the New York Mets rated Pratt 6, 4, 10. I then set the league to on-line, the Mets rated Pratt 6,4, 9. The last line is what really made me confused. The two teams had different ratings which would indicate that the teams were not using the same scout, but if that was the case, why would toggling on-line league on give a different result? I have no idea if it is using the same scout or not, but it seems obvious that when you view a players ratings, even with your own scout, you will not get a consistent result. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

06-20-2003, 03:52 PM	#12
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	I like the multiple scout idea. It's what TCY Football does. I also like the idea of having a separate GM mode where you can hire a manager with certain characteristics to include baseball strategy. You could have Billy Ball or Whitey Ball or some other such thing. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

06-20-2003, 02:26 AM	#3
yabanci Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 304	This makes no sense at all to me. I like the scouts, but if you are going to have scouts it should be consistent and it should be your scout evaluating talent in every part of the game, not your scout here, the other team's scout there, an average scout somewhere else, etc., etc. (at least in manager mode).

06-20-2003, 02:33 AM	#4
ChipperStillRules10 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 244	Thats right

06-20-2003, 02:42 AM	#5
scoobz0202 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Celina, Ohio Posts: 969	I agree.. what is the point of the scouts.. what the hel* are they scouting?

06-20-2003, 03:55 AM	#8
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	This is only the case in online leagues, isn't it??

06-20-2003, 08:00 AM	#10
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Hmm... gotta check the code

06-20-2003, 12:16 PM	#11
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	There was also an interesting problem that cropped up in the JBL just yesterday. Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the first pick was a player who's ratings were displayed as 6/4/6/6 (pitcher - reduced ratings). As soon as he was drafted, his ratings were viewed by his team to be 2/4/6/6. Needless to say, the owner wasn't so happy. I know there was a problem in the past where the amateur player ratings weren't accurate when viewing HTML, but I thought that they had always been accurate when viewing in game, this is the first I've heard of there being a problem, in that regards.

06-20-2003, 08:41 PM	#13
yabanci Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 304	Front Office Football 4 also is much better in terms of scouting. There you always look at players through your scout's eyes (and the scouts ratings are more detailed, such as evaluating young talent. evaluating certain positions, etc.). For the draft, all players are given an overall rating by a league consensus scout, but you still evaluate the player's talent using your scout. So you can look at the consensus on the player and check it against your scout's opinion, and decide who to draft in light of your particular scout's strengh's and weaknesses. This to me is realistic. OOTP, where apparently on some screens you are getting the evaluation of another team's scout, an average scout, or who knows what, is not realistic and seems like a big flaw in the game.

06-20-2003, 09:00 PM	#14
yabanci Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 304	When I became troubled by the ootp scouting system was one day when I was in the league leaders section looking for a potential trade candidate. I looked at a player and happened to make a note of his talent ratings (I play talent only). Then I went to the roster of the player's team to see where he was hitting in the lineup and noticed that his ratings were different on the roster screen than on league leaders screen. So I went back to the league leaders screen and checked the player again and his ratings had changed to what was shown in roster screen. So I thought maybe I originally wrote down the rating wrong. So i checked a different player, and the same thing happened. If I remember correctly, I then went to the trade screen and saw a third set of ratings for the same player. At this point I lost confidence in the ootp scouting system. I just checked this again): Garciaparra Leaders: G B F G A G Roster: G B F A A G Pujols Leaders: B B F B A G Roster: B G F B G A So not only are the ratings different in these two screens, they actually change when you go back and forth between them.