Line Up Order

[jozza800]

I do watch a little bit of baseball but I am unsure as to how a batting line up should be ordered.

I had a quick look at how the CPU teams lined up and came up with something like this.

1-3 good contact/eye for getting on base
4-5 home run hitters
6-8 haven't got a clue?
9 pitcher

Is this about right? Anything else to consider?

[Orcin]

Here's my guideline:

1 - best on-base percentage, hopefully some speed
2/3 - good on-base percentage with some extra-base power but not necessarily home runs
4 - best power hitter
5 - next best power hitter
6/7/8/(9) - organize the rest best to worst, good idea to have speed in the 6 or 7 spot

[cavebutter]

One of the things that I've experimented with is thinking of my lineup as two complementary 4-man lineups (plus a pitcher) rather than one 8-man lineup. My lineups tend to look something like this:

1- OBP/Speed
2- Contact
3- Best Overall Hitter
4- Most Power
5- Contact
6- Contact
7- OPB
8- Power
9-Pitcher

I don't expect a high OBP from my #4, so I want to start filling the bases again after he bats. Putting a high OBP guy in front of my second cleanup hitter (#8), increases the chances that I have someone on base for a power hitter or, failing that, someone on base for my P to move over.

[The Game]

Orcin's is similar to mine
1. OBP - Some teams i like to have speed guys on my current team he has 5 SB and has been caught 6 times but has an OBP of .434
2. I like a Mark Grace type of hitter here. .300+ 15-20 Hr power good doubles hitter and can bunt hopefully. Lyle Overby hit .288 30 Hr 88 RBI 43 2B can;t bunt though
3. Best overall
4. Power guy usually prefer someone who doesn't strikeout more then 150 times but my guy hit 57 HR 183 K
5. I try to go lefty, righty throughout my lineup whenever possible so for me I platoon this spot usually. this is also a player who is a combo of 4 & 5. For me this is my spot to hit. .311 24 Hr 74 RBI (missed 54 games)
6. similar to #2 when possible. since my #4 or #5 might have bad speed I like to move them over vs bunting with just the #2 hitter and #8 hitter.
7. usually whoever my C is will bat here, AJ, Yadier or Girardi type of hitter. My C is a clone of Matt Nokes
8. Speed no power guy who can bunt.
9. pitcher.

[Syd Thrift]

The CLASSIC way you set up your lineup is (and this isn't so much an endorsement as it is an acknowledgement of conventional baseball wisdom):

1. The fastest guy on your team. Your leadoff hitter. Sometimes not your fastest guy but only if your fastest guy is awful at getting on base.
2. A guy with "good bat control", that is, someone who is good at the hit and run (good Avoid Ks rating) and can bunt well. Often your starting CF or LF will hit leadoff for you and as such it's good to put a middle infielder 2nd to keep the bottom of your lineup from being too weak.
3. The best hitter on your team. That means batting average, although if you have a Punch and Judy guy who gets 200 singles a year you're probably hitting him leadoff instead.
4. Your RBI guy, which usually means a homerun hitter, but look. If a guy drives in a lot of runs, no matter how he does it, he's an RBI guy and you bat him cleanup. If he is a .270 hitter who gets 15 DINGERS a year and never walks but still manages to get his 100 ribbies, he's probably clutch or something.
5. There are a couple ways of thinking about this slot so I'll call them 5a and 5b:
5a. Your #2 RBI guy, at least out of the players who are left. You need someone to protect your cleanup hitter after all.
5b. Some teams like to stick a second high-OBP guy here as sort of your 2nd inning leadoff man.
6-7. Your next best 2 hitters.
8. If you're an NL team, the catcher. Look, I don't care how well you think your catcher hits. He'll probably get hurt at some point in the system and not be as effective. So you hit him 8th. Even if he's healthy he'll be subbed for more than any other position and you don't want to mess up the position of everyone else, do you (if in the AL, your worst or 2nd worst hitter: see below)
9. If in the NL, your pitcher. PERIOD. If in the AL, you can either put your worst hitter here or use this slot as a second leadoff spot.

That's *conventional* wisdom. If you're in an online league and actually want to win games, realize 2 things:

1. Batting orders really aren't that important outside of the fact that you should get your best players the most PAs.

2. With that said, you want to put your 3 best hitters 1, 2, and 4 in the lineup. If it's close, put your fastest guy 1 and your best power hitter 4 but otherwise that's where you put them. Strangely enough, the 3 hole is actually a good place to put a guy who isn't quite as good a hitter but might demand to hit in the middle of the lineup. He will most commonly come up with the bases empty and 2 outs. Otherwise, you'd then put your next guys in 3, and 5-9 in order of ability, basically.

[thehef]

First I start by determining who the leadoff and #3 hitters are. I don’t doubt the merits of high OBP, but I just hate slugs like Brian Downing and Wade Boggs in the leadoff spot, so I first look for the best base-stealer and will usually put him at leadoff unless 1) his OBP is lousy, or 2) he’s too good of an all-around hitter and instead belongs in the three spot. If two or more guys can steal and are suited for leadoff, then I’ll go with OBP to determine which one to go with at the top… The #3 spot is the best overall hitter… Then things fall into place:

Speed, OBP, and ability to hit for contact are factors that go into choosing the #2 hitter… The best power and OBP guy - among those who haven’t already been selected for spots one thru three – is the cleanup hitter… Next best remaining hitters go – in order – into the six, seven, and eight slots, with consideration being given to righty-lefty balance, and favoring power somewhat for the higher spots…

And when the key factors considered are not that different between, say the #1 and #2 guys, and the #3 and #4 guys, then righty-lefty can come into play there, too.

If no DH, then of course the pitcher goes in the nine-hole. If there’s a DH, then the "next best remaining hitters" principle applies to the nine spot, too, except that I might tend to favor speed there.

Yes, it's rocket science ;-) And certainly contains some elements of the CLASSIC way Syd details above.

[thevaliantx]

Mine looks like this:

1. OBP + Speed
2. Speed
3. OBP + Avg + Power
4. Power
5. Speed
6. Speed
7. Power
8. Speed
9. Pitcher

Obviously I like guys that can run like the wind, my team consistently is near the top in stolen bases, and it should be no surprise that my teams also win most of their extra inning games.

[thevaliantx]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

2. A guy with "good bat control", that is, someone who is good at the hit and run (good Avoid Ks rating) and can bunt well. Often your starting CF or LF will hit leadoff for you and as such it's good to put a middle infielder 2nd to keep the bottom of your lineup from being too weak.

Are you Dusty Baker, by chance?

[jozza800]

Thanks guys, I wasnt too far off.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by thevaliantx

Are you Dusty Baker, by chance?

Dusty Baker is like the king of conventional wisdom. There isn't a baseball thought in his head that hasn't been thought by a thousand baseball guys before.

[OutS|der]

Wikipedia says

#1
The first player in the batting order is the leadoff hitter. Generally, the leadoff batter is the fastest baserunner on the team. He bats more often than anyone else in the lineup. His goal is to ensure the team has baserunners on base when the later, more powerful hitters come to bat. His need for a high on base percentage (OBP) exceeds that of the other lineup spots. Because leadoff hitters are selected primarily for their speed and ability to reach base, they are typically not power hitters. Leadoff hitters typically hit mostly singles and doubles and draw walks to get on base. However, speed is not essential, as was shown by Wade Boggs, but it is highly desired among leadoff hitters. Once on base, his main goal is to get into scoring position (that is, 2nd or 3rd base) as quickly as possible, either through steals, hit and run plays or intelligent baserunning decisions, and then on to score.
Examples of classic lead-off hitters are Jackie Robinson, Phil Rizzutto, Richie Ashburn, Maury Wills, Lou Brock, Pete Rose, Rod Carew, and Tim Raines, with some having somewhat more power (Lou Whitaker, Rickey Henderson, Paul Molitor, Derek Jeter).
[edit] #2

The second batter, most often just referred to as in the two-hole, is usually a contact hitter with the ability to bunt a baserunner over or get a hit. His main goal is to move the leadoff man into scoring position. Often, these hitters are fairly quick, competent baserunners and tend to avoid grounding into double plays. Managers often like to have a left-handed hitter bat second because of the potential gap in the infield defense caused by the first baseman holding the leadoff batter. On a very good team this batter can have characteristics of both a leadoff hitter and a power hitter (Curt Flood, Joe Morgan, Robin Yount, Alan Trammell).
[edit] #3

The third batter, in the three-hole, is generally the best all-around hitter on the team, often hitting for a high batting average but not necessarily very fast. Part of his job is to reach base for the cleanup hitter, and part of it is to help drive in baserunners himself. Third-place hitters are best known for "keeping the inning alive". However in recent years, some managers have tended to put their best slugger in this position.
Typically the greatest hitters for a combination of power and OBP on their teams bat third, as is shown by the use of such hitters as Babe Ruth, Mel Ott, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Mickey Mantle, Carl Yastrzemski, Albert Pujols, Josh Hamilton, Evan Longoria and Hank Aaron in this position in the lineup. Even without the combination of extreme power (Yogi Berra, Al Kaline, George Brett) or high batting average (Ernie Banks, Harmon Killebrew, Johnny Bench, Mike Schmidt, Reggie Jackson) this batting position contains an inordinate number of hitters who eventually become members of the Baseball Hall of Fame.
[edit] #4

The fourth player in the batting order is known as the cleanup hitter, and is almost always one of the best hitters on the team, often the one with the most power. Baseball managers tend to place hitters who are most likely to reach base ahead of the clean-up man, so that the fourth batter can "clean" the bases by driving these baserunners home to score runs. His main goal is to drive in runs, although he is expected to score runs as well. In fact, the fourth spot in the order has the luxury of being somewhat "protected" from bad situations early in the game: the batter only rarely faces a spot with two outs and no baserunners in the first time through the order—possible if, for example, one of the first three batters hits a home run and the other two make outs or following a home run by the #3 hitter. If nobody gets on base, the cleanup hitter has a chance to start a rally in the second inning by being the first batter, with zero outs. However, hitting cleanup also requires an exceptional level of talent, and the ability to deliver big hits in important situations (such as the bases loaded with two out). Examples of #4 hitters include Lou Gehrig, Eddie Matthews, Willie McCovey, Billy Williams, Tony Pérez, Eddie Murray, Alex Rodriguez and Miguel Cabrera.
The theory behind the cleanup hitter concept is that at the beginning of the game, the first three batters will reach base with a single-base hit, walk, or equivalent, thereby loading the bases, and enabling the cleanup hitter a chance to hit a grand slam. But even without the grand slam, this batter can extend an inning with a high batting average and frequent walks.
[edit] #5, #6

The fifth and sixth (and sometimes seventh) batters have traditionally been RBI men, with the main goal of driving runners home, especially with sacrifice flies. The 3rd, 4th and 5th hitters in the lineup are called the "heart of the order," signifying their collective ability to get on base, hit for power and drive in runs. Modern sabermetric baseball theory suggests that even the 5th and 6th batters should have high on-base percentages, though this approach has not been universally adopted. The fifth batter is usually a team's second-best power hitter, and his purpose is often to "protect" the clean-up hitter in the batting order. He is expected to pose enough of a threat that the opposing team refrains from intentionally walking the clean-up hitter in potential scoring situations. The sixth hitter serves as a backup to the fifth hitter in case he fails to score runs or to drive more in himself if another scoring opportunity presents itself.
[edit] #7, #8

The seventh and eighth batters are often not as powerful as the earlier batters, and do not have as high a batting average. They are often players who are in the lineup more because of their defensive ability (typically catcher, second baseman or shortstop) than their ability as hitters. They are still expected to produce (as is the case for any regular starter), but they have less pressure in those spots. The main pressure on the eighth hitter comes when there are two outs: in this case, he must battle the pitcher to get on base so that the ninth hitter can come up. That way, even if the ninth hitter gets out, the top of the order comes up next. Very often the #7 hitter is a catcher, commonly the slowest baserunner on a team whose lack of speed would contribute to a large number of double plays higher in the order even if he is a good hitter (Bill Freehan). The eighth batter is often a good contact hitter, and can be used as a back-up #2 hitter. In leagues without designated hitters (DHs), the catcher often bats eighth, as they are often employed for their defensive skills and handling of the pitching staff, and tend to have a relatively low batting average. However, this is by no means always the case. In a situation where the pitcher is batting in the #9 slot, #8 hitters are sometimes intentionally walked to get to the pitcher's spot in the #9 hole; however, with two outs the opposing pitcher is expected to battle the #8 hitter, so in the event of an out the pitcher leads off the following inning.
[edit] #9

In the presence of the designated hitter, the ninth batter is often like the second leadoff. Nine-hitters tend to be fast, and have a decent on base percentage like the leadoff hitter.
In leagues where the DH rule is not in effect, the starting pitcher almost always fills the ninth spot, although relief pitchers may occupy a different spot due to a double switch. If there is a man on first or second base with fewer than two outs when the ninth hitter is up, he almost always bunts. However, a notable alternative exists to this, in which the pitcher or weakest hitter actually bats in the 8th slot, and another player with decent OBP and speed bats in the 9th slot, thus creating a kind of second leadoff hitter, at the bottom of the lineup, that loops to the top of the order afterwards. This has been used sparingly in the major leagues, but was notably employed by St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa in the second half of the 1998 baseball season, and again in August 2007 and in 2008, and by Milwaukee Brewers manager Ned Yost in 2008.[1][2] Former New York Mets manager Bobby Valentine occasionally employed this technique, having Rickey Henderson hit leadoff and Roger Cedeno bat ninth.

[bwburke94]

I'm sick of seeing badly edited copy/pastes from Wikipedia.