Give or Take: 'Hawk' Harrelson - Page 2

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chase Davis

Why is it unprofessional?

I just explained that.

Newspaper beat writers can't root for the team like that. Why should broadcasters be allowed to?

CD1083 · 06-01-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

I just explained that.

Newspaper beat writers can't root for the team like that. Why should broadcasters be allowed to?

What rules do you speak of?

What consists of rooting? Are broadcasters not allowed to show any excitement over their team doing well? Or are they just not allowed to be annoying about it?

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chase Davis

What rules do you speak of?

What consists of rooting? Are broadcasters not allowed to show any excitement over their team doing well? Or are they just not allowed to be annoying about it?

If you are actively rooting for either team, even in a college or minor-league press box, you will be asked to leave. I have seen it happen, and yes, I have covered hundreds and hundreds of sporting events, high school, college, amateur and professional.

Blatant homerism in broadcast media is kinda like Justice Potter Stewart's take on pornography.

kq76 · 06-01-2012, 09:03 PM

If you had asked me a few weeks ago who Harrelson was, I wouldn't have known so obviously I'm not that familiar with him. That said, I'd much rather have a homer than the opposite, someone who seems to incessantly root for the opposition. I understand that's probably an announcer's way of playing devil's advocate or giving the opposition their due, but with some people it's too much. I try to tune him out best as I can, but Craig Simpson who does colour commentary for CBC HNIC gets both my wife and her dad so angry while watching Canucks games that I stopped going over there to watch with them. And I hate to admit it, but if NBC is broadcasting the same game, I'll watch their take instead.

CD1083 · 06-01-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

If you are actively rooting for either team, even in a college or minor-league press box, you will be asked to leave. I have seen it happen, and yes, I have covered hundreds and hundreds of sporting events, high school, college, amateur and professional.

Blatant homerism in broadcast media is kinda like Justice Potter Stewart's take on pornography.

OK, I think I understand your take, however I'm almost 100% I can go to any broadcast and hear the broadcasters at some point get excited for their home team. I'm watching the Phillies game right now and when they took the lead they got excited.

I respect the purity in your preferred broadcast style, but I very rarely see it at the professional level.

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

If you had asked me a few weeks ago who Harrelson was, I wouldn't have known so obviously I'm not that familiar with him. That said, I'd much rather have a homer than the opposite, someone who seems to incessantly root for the opposition. I understand that's probably an announcer's way of playing devil's advocate or giving the opposition their due, but with some people it's too much. I try to tune him out best as I can, but Craig Simpson who does colour commentary for CBC HNIC gets both my wife and her dad so angry while watching Canucks games that I stopped going over there to watch with them. And I hate to admit it, but if NBC is broadcasting the same game, I'll watch their take instead.

Mind you, consistently rooting against the home team is the same kind of unprofessionalism. Many fans, however, seem to think that not actively rooting for the home team is the equivalent of actively rooting against it. Not saying that your example is a case of that; I was simply using your comment as a springboard to point that out.

A team-employed announcer who I feel does a very good job of being fair is Michael Kay for the Yankees.

The Professor · 06-01-2012, 09:12 PM

When the broadcaster is in the employ of the team and is the voice connecting the team to the fans, he should not be held to the standards of the press. He may choose to adhere to such standards (Barber, Scully) or he may not (Prince, Caray), but ultimately it comes down to the style preferred by the listeners and, secondarily, his employers.

I completely get that people don't like Hawk's homerism. Or didn't like Caray's. And other people may think Scully is boring. (WHAT!?!)

I want someone who makes the images spring to life, who makes the great moments explode, who entertains me when the game is out of hand one way or the other. They needn't be a raging homer, but I don't want Joe Buck either. Someone who is so dispassionate and disconnected that it makes the game drag.

People like Kobie prefer something more strait-laced and "professional." I respect that.

But I don't think baseball broadcasters, as a rule, should naturally be held to the standards of the press.

Variety is the spice of life - and baseball broadcasting.

kq76 · 06-01-2012, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

Because it's extremely unprofessional.

If it really is, I don't think it need be. I like it when an announcer is as excited or disappointed about a play as I am. After all, all they're charged with doing is providing us with entertainment. It's not like they're investigative journalists breaking the silence on some big government secret where it would be critical that they come off as reputable and reliable as possible. It's only a game, let it be fun.

The Professor · 06-01-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

A team-employed announcer who I feel does a very good job of being fair is Michael Kay for the Yankees.

I think I'd agree. Kay is good and you can rely on getting a fair turn from him.

The quality/attraction of the Yankees broadcast turns on whoever is partnered with Kay on a given night/day. It can be very good (Singleton, Cone IMO) or it can be very bad (most of the other guys.)

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Professor

When the broadcaster is in the employ of the team and is the voice connecting the team to the fans, he should not be held to the standards of the press. He may choose to adhere to such standards (Barber, Scully) or he may not (Prince, Caray), but ultimately it comes down to the style preferred by the listeners and, secondarily, his employers.

I completely get that people don't like Hawk's homerism. Or didn't like Caray's. And other people may think Scully is boring. (WHAT!?!)

I want someone who makes the images spring to life, who makes the great moments explode, who entertains me when the game is out of hand one way or the other. They needn't be a raging homer, but I don't want Joe Buck either. Someone who is so dispassionate and disconnected that it makes the game drag.

People like Kobie prefer something more strait-laced and "professional." I respect that.

But I don't think baseball broadcasters, as a rule, should naturally be held to the standards of the press.

Variety is the spice of life - and baseball broadcasting.

I agree that a certain level of homerism in broadcast is unavoidable. The vast majority of people watching a given, say, Yankees game are doing so rooting for the Yankees; thus, more focus is going to be given to the Yankees than, say, the A's or whoever the hell they're playing.

However, I just find Hawk's homerism to be over the top and to an absolutely insufferable level. No White Sox player has ever, apparently, taken an actual strike, it seems sometimes.

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Professor

I think I'd agree. Kay is good and you can rely on getting a fair turn from him.

The quality/attraction of the Yankees broadcast turns on whoever is partnered with Kay on a given night/day. It can be very good (Singleton, Cone IMO) or it can be very bad (most of the other guys.)

Singleton is tremendous. As far as the worst YES guys go, I think that discussion begins and ends with Paul O'Neill.

And for the record, I loathe the New York Yankees.

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:20 PM

dola,

I think the Mets guys are pretty good as well, although when you get all three guys in the booth it seems a little crowded. And if you want "dispassionately disconnected," wait until Keith Hernandez gets bored around the seventh inning.

CONN CHRIS · 06-01-2012, 09:44 PM

I will always contend that the worst duo in baseball is Sterling - Waldman. Waldman sounds like she has a crush on the players with her gushing and Sterling is all about setting up his signature calls (of which there are about two dozen too many). Waldman's love affair with Jeter (previously, Clemens) and Sterling's with himself just make for a lousy combination in my opinion.

Kobie · 06-01-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I will always contend that the worst duo in baseball is Sterling - Waldman. Waldman sounds like she has a crush on the players with her gushing and Sterling is all about setting up his signature calls (of which there are about two dozen too many). Waldman's love affair with Jeter (previously, Clemens) and Sterling's with himself just make for a lousy combination in my opinion.

Ugh. Sterling and Waldman are just horrible.

And yeah, Waldman often sounds like a baseball Annie during the broadcasts. She has the screamin' thigh sweats for Derek Jeter something fierce.

bear · 06-01-2012, 09:49 PM

I've been a White Sox fan for a while now. My dad took me to my first game back in '59 and my being a fan pre-dates that by a couple of years.

I can't stand Hawk. He's a big reason why I follow the games online. Don't have to listen to him. I think my problem with him might go back to the time when he served as GM. Haven't forgiven him for that yet.

My favorite Sox broadcaster was Del Crandall back when he did color. Learned stuff from him.

captaincarl · 06-01-2012, 10:41 PM

The Hawk was an announcer at one time for the Boston Red Sox as part of the TV broadcast team. I remember him at times taking a baseball that had gone into the broadcast booth, leaning out to window waving the ball and waving to the crowd, then tossing the baseball into the stands.

I don't mind the homerism but cursing on the air is taboo.

When my grandmother was alive she used to turn down the volume of the TV if she didn't like the announcers and turned on the radio to listen to the radio announcers. The fans of the Pale Hose also have that option as well if they don't like listening to the TV broadcast team.

The team always has the final say as to whom the announcers will be for the broadcasts. At least I know the Red Sox do anyway.

Do you think the fans of today would have something against the way Dizzy Dean was when he was a member of a broadcast team?

jaxmagicman · 06-02-2012, 02:23 AM

It isn't just the homerism. Some of the best have been huge homers. It is the stupid sayings, the good guys vs bad guys thing, the HE GONE, and the inability at all to make you enjoy the game and not just feel like the person is rooting for the sox. Sometimes it is ok, to just, you know, call what is happening, not put it into the "We need to do this..." catagory.

The Game · 06-02-2012, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Worst announcer in baseball, HANDS DOWN.

No. That would be Jon Miller or Joe Morgan. I love Hawk's catchphrases & nicknames but overall I find him boring. I am sick and tired of hearing about Ted Williams, golf and what he did in Boston. Steve Stone I like a lot and wish Hawk would finally retire and let DJ move back to tv or bring Chris Singleton to replace Hawk.

TribeFanInNC · 06-02-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

Newspaper beat writers can't root for the team like that. Why should broadcasters be allowed to?

I think you've already pointed out the answer to your question. Newspaper writers and national media are employed by somebody other than the team. Local team broadcasters are supposed to present the team in a positive light. That's their job. Sure, they need to be critical at times, but it is their job to be supportive of the team in general.

Also IMO, local team broadcasters fall more into the entertainment category than the information category, thus making them less like media and more like a host. We are not looking to them for factual news for the most part. I personally like when they are fans of the team.

I don't expect them to be impartial for those reasons.

TribeFanInNC · 06-02-2012, 10:23 AM

dola,

I guess I should answer the original question. One disclaimer: most of my Harrelson listening was in the Wimpy/Hawk days.

I've never been a Hawk Harrelson fan, but I think it is mostly because I'm fan of a division rival. Nothing would burn me up more than Frank Thomas 'putting one on the board'. I don't mind the homerism when the Sox are winning. One thing that does put me off is that he almost seems to pout when the other team does something well.

Chicagoans seem to appreciate these types of announcers though. Caray, Hawk, and Ron Santo were three of the biggest homers ever, but are extrememly popular among fans.

I will agree that Darrin Jackson was REALLY dull. I couldn't stand him. But I digress...

View Poll Results: Take Hawk home or Give him away?
Give	14	70.00%
Take	6	30.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2012, 09:03 PM	#24
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,817	If you had asked me a few weeks ago who Harrelson was, I wouldn't have known so obviously I'm not that familiar with him. That said, I'd much rather have a homer than the opposite, someone who seems to incessantly root for the opposition. I understand that's probably an announcer's way of playing devil's advocate or giving the opposition their due, but with some people it's too much. I try to tune him out best as I can, but Craig Simpson who does colour commentary for CBC HNIC gets both my wife and her dad so angry while watching Canucks games that I stopped going over there to watch with them. And I hate to admit it, but if NBC is broadcasting the same game, I'll watch their take instead. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

06-01-2012, 09:12 PM	#27
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	When the broadcaster is in the employ of the team and is the voice connecting the team to the fans, he should not be held to the standards of the press. He may choose to adhere to such standards (Barber, Scully) or he may not (Prince, Caray), but ultimately it comes down to the style preferred by the listeners and, secondarily, his employers. I completely get that people don't like Hawk's homerism. Or didn't like Caray's. And other people may think Scully is boring. (WHAT!?!) I want someone who makes the images spring to life, who makes the great moments explode, who entertains me when the game is out of hand one way or the other. They needn't be a raging homer, but I don't want Joe Buck either. Someone who is so dispassionate and disconnected that it makes the game drag. People like Kobie prefer something more strait-laced and "professional." I respect that. But I don't think baseball broadcasters, as a rule, should naturally be held to the standards of the press. Variety is the spice of life - and baseball broadcasting. __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

06-01-2012, 09:20 PM	#32
Kobie Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 288	dola, I think the Mets guys are pretty good as well, although when you get all three guys in the booth it seems a little crowded. And if you want "dispassionately disconnected," wait until Keith Hernandez gets bored around the seventh inning. __________________ Derp

06-01-2012, 09:44 PM	#33
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,026	I will always contend that the worst duo in baseball is Sterling - Waldman. Waldman sounds like she has a crush on the players with her gushing and Sterling is all about setting up his signature calls (of which there are about two dozen too many). Waldman's love affair with Jeter (previously, Clemens) and Sterling's with himself just make for a lousy combination in my opinion. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

06-01-2012, 09:49 PM	#35
bear Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 18,797	I've been a White Sox fan for a while now. My dad took me to my first game back in '59 and my being a fan pre-dates that by a couple of years. I can't stand Hawk. He's a big reason why I follow the games online. Don't have to listen to him. I think my problem with him might go back to the time when he served as GM. Haven't forgiven him for that yet. My favorite Sox broadcaster was Del Crandall back when he did color. Learned stuff from him. __________________ Bear's Unstable UTBA Season Four Gold Conference Central Division Champion First UTBA expansion franchise to win a conference divisional title

06-01-2012, 10:41 PM	#36
captaincarl Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Barrington, RI Posts: 4,362	The Hawk was an announcer at one time for the Boston Red Sox as part of the TV broadcast team. I remember him at times taking a baseball that had gone into the broadcast booth, leaning out to window waving the ball and waving to the crowd, then tossing the baseball into the stands. I don't mind the homerism but cursing on the air is taboo. When my grandmother was alive she used to turn down the volume of the TV if she didn't like the announcers and turned on the radio to listen to the radio announcers. The fans of the Pale Hose also have that option as well if they don't like listening to the TV broadcast team. The team always has the final say as to whom the announcers will be for the broadcasts. At least I know the Red Sox do anyway. Do you think the fans of today would have something against the way Dizzy Dean was when he was a member of a broadcast team? Last edited by captaincarl; 06-01-2012 at 10:43 PM.

06-02-2012, 02:23 AM	#37
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	It isn't just the homerism. Some of the best have been huge homers. It is the stupid sayings, the good guys vs bad guys thing, the HE GONE, and the inability at all to make you enjoy the game and not just feel like the person is rooting for the sox. Sometimes it is ok, to just, you know, call what is happening, not put it into the "We need to do this..." catagory. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-02-2012, 10:23 AM	#40
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	dola, I guess I should answer the original question. One disclaimer: most of my Harrelson listening was in the Wimpy/Hawk days. I've never been a Hawk Harrelson fan, but I think it is mostly because I'm fan of a division rival. Nothing would burn me up more than Frank Thomas 'putting one on the board'. I don't mind the homerism when the Sox are winning. One thing that does put me off is that he almost seems to pout when the other team does something well. Chicagoans seem to appreciate these types of announcers though. Caray, Hawk, and Ron Santo were three of the biggest homers ever, but are extrememly popular among fans. I will agree that Darrin Jackson was REALLY dull. I couldn't stand him. But I digress...