Fundamental flaw in basic gameplay. (or "I *cannot* be alone in wanting to play this way.)

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Torvald

One thing is the AI GM of the team just doesn't care if there is a playable roster at your level. Currently I have 4 1Bs, 1 2Bs, and no other infielders. Also there are times that you get down to 8 pitchers. Really not able to win games with your roster the computer give you

This game is awesome, but that is something I would addressed.

I agree. I think the thing that needs to be remembered is that in real life relatively few players in a real minor league system have a chance of making the majors. There are a small number of genuine prospects and a large number of players who are just there to round out the roster and fill the necessary field positions.

I actually recorded from the official minor league web site all the minor league transactions for all the minors for the 2009 season. I just never got around to turning that from its original format into something more usable. But that data would be invaluable for determining just how often transactions happen in the minors during a season.

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I actually recorded from the official minor league web site all the minor league transactions for all the minors for the 2009 season. I just never got around to turning that from its original format into something more usable. But that data would be invaluable for determining just how often transactions happen in the minors during a season.

It would be interesting, but dare I say, small sample size? How would you know that the number of transactions in 2009 was typical? Wouldn't you have to look at several seasons at least to get a more rounded picture of the number of transactions in the minors?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by spitfire

It would be interesting, but dare I say, small sample size? How would you know that the number of transactions in 2009 was typical? Wouldn't you have to look at several seasons at least to get a more rounded picture of the number of transactions in the minors?

Considering that it involves 16 leagues and 187 clubs in the minors as part of 30 major league organizations, I would expect any potential anomalies would even out over the course of an entire season and off-season.

However, feel free to grab the transaction data yourself from the minor league web site if you wish to add more seasons to the sample.

Be advised it's something of a time-consuming process as you have to copy the info from each league individually, and can only do one month at a time. You also then have to clean up the results since the usage of transaction terms is not consistent. The transaction data for the 2010-11 seasons is available, as well as for the 2006-08 seasons.

The good thing about the data there is that it is complete. It includes promotions, demotions, disabled list moves, signings, releases, stints on the temporarily inactive list, and trades.

[spitfire]

I don't have the time, interest or inclination to embark on that kind of project. Just wondering if one can draw conclusions from one season's worth of transaction data as to it being representative of recent seasons. No doubt it's better than no data at all, and for that reason alone would be interesting if you ever did something more with the 2009 data.

[Biggio509]

[QUOTE=SkyDog;3302921]
I want to be the GM. Period.

LGO,

How would the use of minor league reserve rosters affect the transactions in the minors? Do teams keep guys in reserve often beyond rookie/SA? I have wondered if the way I play the minors of promoting guys when injuries occur is realistic or if teams keep some guys above the active limit but in the reserve limit in case of injury.

To the OP,

A. What is reasonable for the handling of your minors?
1. Are your prospects not developing as they should?
2. Do you just not like the fact a 39 y/0 who can no longer hit is rookie league?

If 1 is the problem which I have not seen I see the issue. If 2 is the problem then do you really just want to be the GM and only look at this guy in AAA is almost ready? Seriously, if you are concerned that player X is not at the right level or if your minor league manager is managing playing time correctly do you really just want to be the GM? The AI seems to do a good job at developing the guys who need to be developed. You don't want to be involved with all the scrubs so what does it matter what the AI does with the guys as long as your prospects develop correctly? You have to remember this is a game sometimes things that work in the model look a little wonky to us. It may or may not look that way to a real MLB GM.

B. If you want to play with ghost players and just deal with your real prospects is that big of deal of just to promote 20 or 30 guys as needed? The game now gives you an arrow on the roster screen if the AI would promote or demote. Just set your rookie level to unlimited and keep your scrubs you don't care about in rookie the handful of real prospects can be promoted as the AI tells you to.

[Ben E Lou]

[QUOTE=Biggio509;3305490]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I want to be the GM. Period.

LGO,

How would the use of minor league reserve rosters affect the transactions in the minors? Do teams keep guys in reserve often beyond rookie/SA?

To the OP,

A. What is reasonable for the handling of your minors?
1. Are your prospects not developing as they should?
2. Do you just not like the fact a 39 y/0 who can no longer hit is rookie league?

If 1 is the problem which I have not seen I see the issue. If 2 is the problem then do you really just want to be the GM and only look at this guy in AAA is almost ready? Seriously, if you are concerned that player X is not at the right level or if your minor league manager is managing playing time correctly do you really just want to be the GM? The AI seems to do a good job at developing the guys who need to be developed. You don't want to be involved with all the scrubs so what does it matter what the AI does with the guys as long as your prospects develop correctly? You have to remember this is a game sometimes things that work in the model look a little wonky to us. It may or may not look that way to a real MLB GM.

B. If you want to play with ghost players and just deal with your real prospects is that big of deal of just to promote 20 or 30 guys as needed? The game now gives you an arrow on the roster screen if the AI would promote or demote. Just set your rookie level to unlimited and keep your scrubs you don't care about in rookie the handful of real prospects can be promoted as the AI tells you to.

There's a specific issue that was uncovered over the course of this thread that Markus is saying will be fixed in an upcoming patch. That fix should take care of what I want.

[Biggio509]

Yeah, I saw that after posting. A lot of pages to go through and a lot developed.

[jmount78]

Even though this thread is longer than a Carl Sandburg novel, this is why I have come to apprecaite OOTP the game, the developers, and the forums. Not too many places can you have a good debate, communication with game developers, and a great game.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by jmount78

Even though this thread is longer than a Carl Sandburg novel, this is why I have come to apprecaite OOTP the game, the developers, and the forums. Not too many places can you have a good debate, communication with game developers, and a great game.

Not to mention the subsequent group hug and warm fuzzies.

[jmount78]

Originally Posted by endgame

Not to mention the subsequent group hug and warm fuzzies.

Yes, you are correct. Perhaps I can invite you over later for a White House beer.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by spitfire

I don't have the time, interest or inclination to embark on that kind of project.

Neither do I, which is why one season of data will have to suffice for the time being.

Originally Posted by spitfire

Just wondering if one can draw conclusions from one season's worth of transaction data as to it being representative of recent seasons.

What it would show is how thirty different major league organizations handled their minors within one season. I would expect that the overall results from those thirty different organizations would average out any peculiarities from any individual organization.

Originally Posted by spitfire

That's a No doubt it's better than no data at all, and for that reason alone would be interesting if you ever did something more with the 2009 data.

I got interested in the subject when the question of how OOTP teams manage their minor league systems as compared to real life. If I recall correctly I grabbed the transaction data while the 2010 season was in progress. A forum member (sadly I forget who) took the data and did a little programmed cleaning up on it. From there I was going to do the final cleanup on it. The idea was to have a final set of data so that you could pick one day from the season of one major league organization and see all the moves that happened that day. So, for example, if an ML club optioned a player back to the minors, what then happened in the rest of the minor league system? Was there a cascading effect of other players being sent down to make room? That sort of thing could be checked, along with the general frequency at which players were shuffled around the system.

I still have the Excel files for the 2009 season. If someone wanted to volunteer to help get the info into that final useful form—which shouldn't be too hard to do—then by all means please do so.

Originally Posted by Biggio509

How would the use of minor league reserve rosters affect the transactions in the minors? Do teams keep guys in reserve often beyond rookie/SA?

My understanding is that they don't for the most part, and keep only enough players to fill out the active rosters (which makes sense since the ML club is paying the salaries of all its minor league players). But I can't state authoritatively that's the case.

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I have wondered if the way I play the minors of promoting guys when injuries occur is realistic or if teams keep some guys above the active limit but in the reserve limit in case of injury.

That's exactly the kind of question the 2009 transactions data was intended to help answer.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by endgame

So, understanding all that, do you have any suggestions for him, agree with him, or have any thoughts on this issue? I ask, given that you've been around a long time, too, and understand such complexities.

I don't play OOTP in the same manner. Therefore, I don't have any thoughts. Otherwise they would have been posted as soon as I read the thread.

Your attempt at humor is duly noted.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Hey guys,

we're currently working on the next OOTP 13 patch. It will fix reported issues and add the following new features / tweaks:

- Added the option to place the toolbar at the bottom of the screen (preferences dialog)
- Added "Auto-play to your next game" to the play menu if the game is in the future
- Added the option to disable the automatic season prediction creation (game options / reports settings)
- Added the option to import historical rookies as free agents when the first-year player draft is disabled in historical leagues (league setup / historical tab)
- Added optional latitude & longitude fields to ballpark data, along with the function to show the ballpark in Google Earth (if installed & proper coordinates are set)
- Tweaked contract evaluation AI, players no longer react to an offer and sign with a different team on the same day
- Improved minor league roster AI when incomplete minors (ghost players) are enabled
- Tweaked development of injury history rating, short-term injuries have less effect now

I wonder whether the item in bold was in response to this thread. Sounds like it might be.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I wonder whether the item in bold was in response to this thread. Sounds like it might be.

I don't wonder. It is.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I don't wonder. It is.

Nice going, in that case!

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Then it boils down to that you can have the awesome minors that you want only if you are willing to do the work, barring a total rewrite and upgrade of the minor league side of the game - which seems to be what you are calling for but which is unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever - and you're not willing to do the work they require. And then you refuse to consider the use of reserve rosters, which is pretty much the only reasonable compromise solution.

With a fix coming in the next patch this week, thanks again for all the drama and entertainment.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

SkyDog I have a lot of sympathy for your view, and I used to feel the same way, but now I have gotten so deeply into organizational managment that I do manage all the minor league rosters, set all the lineups and pitching rotations, and monitor progress on a game-by-game basis. I love it and only deviate from that when I am playing historical and using reserve rosters instead of minors. I think organizational immersion is even more rewarding than team immersion. It used to feel exhausting but no longer. Having said that, I really do understand what you are looking for and I agree that the AI is not there yet. But I'm telling you, if you try doing it ALL, runnign the entire organization, it is really fun and rewarding.

Yes, but one thin not being mentioned, is that while I agree that too like to manage my organization from top to bottom..it means I must have a huge advantage over the AI run teams. This in my opinion is the real reason this should get some work. Still would love to see service time limits at the minor league levels.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

With a fix coming in the next patch this week, thanks again for all the drama and entertainment.

I wrote "unlikely," which was true, not "impossible." I'm really glad it was unexpectedly fixed. And the only drama and excitement must have been inside your own head, because I was just discussing a program. How some of you manage to take a simple discussion of issues so personally never ceases to amaze me.

[darkcloud4579]

So did this ever get fixed?