Fundamental flaw in basic gameplay. (or "I *cannot* be alone in wanting to play this way.)

[PSUColonel]

Again...I still believe minor league age limits could go a long way in helping to resolve this issue. I've been examining minor league transactions for some time now, and although much better, there should a cap on age for certain levels.

AAA clubs: 25 players.

AA clubs: 25 players

A clubs: 25 players, with no more than two players with more than five years of minor-league service time.

Short-season A clubs: 30 players. No more than 25 players may be used in a single game. As of July 1, the Active List must include at least 10 pitchers. No more than four players may be 23 years old or older. No more than three players may have four or more years of minor-league service time.)

Advanced rookie clubs: 35 players. No more than 30 players may be used in a single game. As of July 1, the Active List must include at least 10 pitchers. No more than 12 players may be 21 years old or older, and no more than two players may be 23 years old or older. No player may have more than two years as a professional, and no player may have three or more years of minor-league service time.
Rookie clubs: 35 players. No more than 30 players may be used in a single game. As of July 1, the Active List must include at least 10 pitchers. No more than 8 players may be 20 years old or older, including two drafted players and four undrafted players who are at least 21 years old. No player may have more than two years of minor-league service time.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

And again, the arrows and the Minor League Report do not square up. That's very troubling, too. I'd feel the need to check both reports to try to sort out wtf is going on.

My soul. Just looked at this more carefully. I used the arrows to place everyone. All red and green removed for the batters in rookie ball now, because everyone is where they are "supposed" to be...



But then I check the Minor League Report.




*shurg*

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Let me start by saying I believe this is an early that I think needs some work.

Are we assuming the AI handles minors the same way when it is handling them for a human versus handling when the team is fully AI?

I just fired up a test league. When I created the league, it only had AAA. After the league was created, I added AA and A. I didn't create them at first because if you do, the game generates players to fill all levels. Ghost players are allowed.

I simmed to the day after the draft and I don't see this top down approach being used. I even have 1 team with 1 player in AAA, 10 in AA and 15 in A.

I have scouts off. Does that make a difference? (Already let Markus know that, but just askin'.)

[spleen1015]

I have scouts off as well.

[Ben E Lou]

Just to re-verify what I'm seeing, I moved Joe "Ready For AAA" Bacon around and it gets even sillier.

In AAA, he has a red down arrow, but no message.
In AA, red down arrow, but NO message (do WHUT???)
In A, red down arrow, but "Ready For AAA."
SS-A: down arrow, Ready for AAA
Rookie Ball: no arrow, Ready for AAA

[endgame]

Service time limits would certainly help mitigate some of the diffculties, including what is sometimes the overvaluing of the more experienced player despite his ratings. If roster limits are in place, sometimes it's a mixed bag, causing the excess to either be released or temporarily housed at another level. The latter used to occur in v12- I haven't looked hard enough in v13 -when short season and rookie seasons were completed, the rosters would often empty or reduce to 1-2 while additional playing time was assigned players in higher leagues than their abilities probably dictated they should be allowed, IMO. So, the calendar is something not to completely exclude from elements that influence, rightly or wrongly, the AIs decisions to promote, demote, and/or release.

For experiment's sake, if you're inclined, take a test league with, say, a roster limit of 50 at its rookie level and unlimited at all others. Advance a day and change that limit to 25 or 30 and examine what happens to the surplus, not only observing the automatic release, but specifically who was released. Lather, rinse, repeat, if you've copied the league or simply try it again with a new one. It's an tactic that can betray some of the AIs rationale or defy you to define it.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Let me start by saying I believe this is an early that I think needs some work.

Are we assuming the AI handles minors the same way when it is handling them for a human versus handling when the team is fully AI?

I just fired up a test league. When I created the league, it only had AAA. After the league was created, I added AA and A. I didn't create them at first because if you do, the game generates players to fill all levels. Ghost players are allowed.

I simmed to the day after the draft and I don't see this top down approach being used. I even have 1 team with 1 player in AAA, 10 in AA and 15 in A.

Heh. Interesting. So what does "your" team look like if allowing the AI to handle minors.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

In A, red down arrow, but "Ready For AAA."

Upon further review, I think this is my favorite.

Overview Screen: "Send him down two levels!"
Minor League Report Screen: "Hell no! Send him *UP* two levels!!!"

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Heh. Interesting. So what does "your" team look like if allowing the AI to handle minors.

I just took over a team and simmed to the next opening day. When I got to opening day, I had 31 players on my major league roster. I moved 6 of them to AAA then I finished the day. 4 of the 6 were moved out of AAA when I simmed the day.

Right now, I have 3 players in AAA, 11 in AA and 16 in A.

I have the AI set to manage promotions/demotions and lineups in the minors.

I am going to sim to the draft and see what happens next.

[Cras]

Well, that certainly makes things a little more interesting. For spleen1015 things seem to be operating correctly. So now it is time to get to brass tacks. What is SkyDog doing that is out of bounds with regards to the parameters of the AI?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Cras

Well, that certainly makes things a little more interesting. For spleen1015 things seem to be operating correctly. So now it is time to get to brass tacks. What is SkyDog doing that is out of bounds with regards to the parameters of the AI?

I can't imagine what. Maybe too many players for it to handle? (And check those screenies. Clearly *something* is terribly out of whack there.)

[olivertheorem]

SkyDog, I've been following this thread and I do think you have a legitimate complaint here. I was wondering if, as part of your discussion w/ Markus that you referred to, you have FTP's your league files to them? Just wondering as I understand that often helps them run down weird AI behavior.

Since it does not seem to be happening to everyone, my best guess is it's something weird being caused by some settings combo.

[spleen1015]

Finished the draft, simmed to July 1.

6 players in AAA, 13 in AA & 22 in A.

I wonder if it has something to do with the number of minor league levels you have and the roster limits placed on the minor leagues.

Wasn't the sign and release issue caused by certain minor league configurations? Maybe this top down issue is a result of the same config.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Finished the draft, simmed to July 1.

6 players in AAA, 13 in AA & 22 in A.

I wonder if it has something to do with the number of minor league levels you have and the roster limits placed on the minor leagues.

Wasn't the sign and release issue caused by certain minor league configurations? Maybe this top down issue is a result of the same config.

I'm using the default minor league configuration. Didn't touch anything there.

[Cras]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I can't imagine what. Maybe too many players for it to handle? (And check those screenies. Clearly *something* is terribly out of whack there.)

you do seem to have more guys in your system. I wonder if this is linked with your report/arrow discrepency. We need spleen to see if he is seeing the same thing, where if a guy is showing an arrow, up or down, what does the report show for where he should be playing.

And why would two seperate mechanisms be used for these two things anyway? or is it the same mechanism, but one of them is confused?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Cras

And why would two seperate mechanisms be used for these two things anyway? or is it the same mechanism, but one of them is confused?

Pretty simple guess there: the Minor League Report has been a part of OOTP for many, many versions. My first guess would be that Markus wrote new algorithms (that in some cases give REALLY different results) when he added the arrows and didn't think to update the Minor League Report.

[spleen1015]

I only have 3 red arrows and when I look at the report, the comments says they are over matched at their current level. I have a few green arrows. There are 5 SP in A who all have green arrows, but the report doesn't have any comments for any of them.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I'm using the default minor league configuration. Didn't touch anything there.

Are you playing the Major League quick start or just with that configuration?

The next preseason, I will add short A and Rookie leagues.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Are you playing the Major League quick start or just with that configuration?

The next preseason, I will add short A and Rookie leagues.

24 teams...2 leagues, 3 divisions. It's the same thing I've done for quite some time. The NABA is set up that way, and I was planning to redo the NABA setup for OOTP13. I'm not exactly highly motivated to do it right now seeing this, though.

[Cras]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Pretty simple guess there: the Minor League Report has been a part of OOTP for many, many versions. My first guess would be that Markus wrote new algorithms (that in some cases give REALLY different results) when he added the arrows and didn't think to update the Minor League Report.

Nothing like making something more complicated than it needs to be. You had the old mechanism in place, and I don't recall people saying it was terribly broken, and the flags are obviously already there, so to generate the MiLB report, so why not just parse that flag and use it to display arrows? And if that is not possible, again, why are things be made to be more complicated then thay should be?

Regardless, arrows and the report should jive. The only thing I can think of if they are indeed working as intended is different filters are being used for each one, so for example the arrows are your being run through your scouts andthe report is being run versus pure ratings, or through something else, somehthing like that. Which again is another worthless and undeeded complication.