Fundamental flaw in basic gameplay. (or "I *cannot* be alone in wanting to play this way.)

[darkcloud4579]

I think if nothing else, it's clear there's a problem. Whether we've all invented 1000x workarounds to deal with it or not, I know there are problems. And for my part, I just ignore the AI and take it out of its hands all of the time for this reason and others. So, there's no question this is an area that needs to be dealt with.

[darkcloud4579]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Ah, yes, the matter of more precisely defined 'roles' for the user. It's a topic that has been discussed before.

I'd say there are three specific roles: owner, general manager, and manager. Each role has its own set of challenges and responsibilities. The user should have the option of taking on only that role for their chosen club. For those who prefer more flexible arrangements, they could take on some or all of the aspects of those three roles.

I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue he's talking about is the AI's handling of its duties, not the need to say delineate those roles better.

[phightin]

Not sure if this helps or not but I do also feel that the AI does a pretty decent job of handling the minors all things considered. I completely sympathize in that you can handle so much and have only so much time on your hands. I'll explain my strategy here and hopefully that helps.

1. I try to balance myself between being the GM of the team and the manager, simming out the large majority of games but playing a few along the way as well. For my majors I set up all the line-ups, rotations, and depth along with keeping an eye on strategy which I will delegate a large part to the manager. When I play out the games I only usually will control the substitutions, the strategy is for my manager to decide. I control all major league signings, trades, free agency, call-ups, the draft etc.

2. I build my minors mainly through my draft, I don't waste much time trying to cut a ton of players each season or sign guys that will be in AA. I may sign some guys that I need for depth for the majors and they'll end up in AAA but thats about it. I let the AI handle all the call-ups and demotions from rookie ball to triple AAA while I control the releasing of players throughout the entire organization. I find this works well for two reasons. First, as players progress through the years your natural draft selections grow and disperse to the levels where they usually belong with their ability and potential. The AI does a pretty good job of determining who is fit for AAA AA and so on. This also allows guys that may be highly regarded prospects or even hidden gems to progress well and fluidly in your minors. For instance as long as your minors are balanced enough that you have enough players that fit the level they're playing at AAA AA A etc then you should be fine.

3. I always try to balance the cycle of releasing players each year. This is where I think a lot of people get into trouble. They'll see some 27,28, 29 yearolds maybe even 30, 31 year olds in their minors "blocking" other players, flip out and release a ton of them a year. This is a huge mistake and really not what happens in real life where many players in the minors are in their late 20s or a bit older even. There's a reason why these guys are "blocking" your prospects and it's because they're not yet good enough with their current ratings to be playing over them yet. I find the AI does a good job with this as well. Even if this isnt the case on a rare occassion you have the ability to force the issue and control the level he's at yourself. What will happen however by releasing all these older players each year is that you get a ton of other guys in your organization being called up and then forced to play at levels they probably are not capable of...even your prospects.

What I do is I find a balance each year in that I will not release a ton of guys but instead about 10 a year depending on the situation. I base my decisions on overall age and potential, and sometimes organizational depth. I like to carry a lot of extra guys on my rookie team for two reasons 1. you get to see who the better players are by allowing the AI to decide who plays (which they usually get right) and 2 it allows me to get rid of the crap young players after 2-3 years who cant even manage to play down in rookie and short season ball. So in essence most of the guys I release are usually in their late minor league years or early ones. The guys in the middle will usually be the base of your minor league organization, much the way they are in real life.

I hope this helps a little bit solve your problem. Unfortunately OOTP does a good job of simulating a real life experience of a GM and there is a lot that it entails. Because of this if you take on a lot of responsibility in the game be prepared to put considerable time into it in order to be successful.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Ah, yes, the matter of more precisely defined 'roles' for the user. It's a topic that has been discussed before.

I'd say there are three specific roles: owner, general manager, and manager. Each role has its own set of challenges and responsibilities. The user should have the option of taking on only that role for their chosen club. For those who prefer more flexible arrangements, they could take on some or all of the aspects of those three roles.

I get that discussion, but that's not the crux of what I am saying here. What I am saying is this:

OOTP13 has the advertised features to let me play exactly how I want to play as a "GM." But those features work too poorly to make it a satisfying experience.

There's no need to create "roles." Just make the AI handle my minor leagues better pls k thx. Maybe that's more clear.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I am playing this way and I have 0 issues about the AI..I am anal about these things.

I have full minors on.

What exactly is the problem with AI handling minors?

My staff promoted/demoted guys appropriately. I plan on doing that stuff myself but I was testing the AI.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I am playing this way and I have 0 issues about the AI..I am anal about these things.

I have full minors on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you using ghost players, or do you have the AI signing extra minor leaguers for you?

[boshk]

it would be nice if there was a tag option that basically says: "hey, this kid is a stud, we gave him a huge signing bonus so lets make sure he gets playing time so he can be a big star someday and we dont look like a bunch of idiots again by drafting another failed prospect like bj garbe." or something like that

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Are you using ghost players, or do you have the AI signing extra minor leaguers for you?

No ghost players. And the AI only signed my draftees.

They also picked up a couple AAA type players during the season to add depth to the 40 man due to injuries.

There were a couple guys I wanted to get moved up but they wasnt ready judging by their stats and suggestions in the minor league report page.

I also have AI evaluation on with the weighted formula even at 25% across the board, so the ratings have less authority than with default.

Only thing I had a problem with is the AI cutting players on in rookie league to make room for the new draftees even though there weren't a roster limit.

However, I turned ratings to 100% accurate and found out those guy were useless anyways so no biggie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blueturf]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I am playing this way and I have 0 issues about the AI..I am anal about these things.

I have full minors on.

What exactly is the problem with AI handling minors?

My staff promoted/demoted guys appropriately. I plan on doing that stuff myself but I was testing the AI.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Are you using ghost players, or do you have the AI signing extra minor leaguers for you?

I finally found the thread that I remembered where Markus discussed Ghost Players. Based on this thread (from 2008) it appears they are coded differently than most of us thought how they behaved. Turning on full minors may cure some/most of the problems you are experiencing.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by boshk

it would be nice if there was a tag option that basically says: "hey, this kid is a stud, we gave him a huge signing bonus so lets make sure he gets playing time so he can be a big star someday and we dont look like a bunch of idiots again by drafting another failed prospect like bj garbe." or something like that

If you have the AI managing your minors, you can tell it to always play certain players at a position.

[darkcloud4579]

For years, I've just been ignoring the AI because of stuff like this and using a lot of human intervention. But I think there's no doubt an area that needs to be addressed.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I am playing this way and I have 0 issues about the AI..I am anal about these things.

I have full minors on.

What exactly is the problem with AI handling minors?

My staff promoted/demoted guys appropriately. I plan on doing that stuff myself but I was testing the AI.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really have had no issues letting the AI handle the minors either. Every once and awhile something will having me scrarch my head but nothing extreme.

I play with full minors and ghost players on.

[Aceshigh24]

I agree with the general sentiment that the AI is terrible on managing the minor leagues. I do think the GM should hire a minor league director (skill level / AI level varies with how good he is) to run that for you. If he sucks, you can fire him and try again.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Not really. That thread has devolved into trying to get Markus to credit the hired Manager with the wins/losses/awards rather than the human GM. I don't care about who gets credit on the leader boards. I just want my minors handled correctly without me having to intervene. It's a very different discussion/issue.

Yes really. If you read the full thread you'll see where the GM Role is discussed and Markus says he's putting it in. It's the same issue/discussion.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Yes really. If you read the full thread you'll see where the GM Role is discussed and Markus says he's putting it in. It's the same issue/discussion.

You can put the "role" in all you want, but if the AI doesn't handle the minors properly, the role is a waste.

It seems to me that many in this thread are suggesting workarounds and settings and all manner of jumping through hoops. The answer here is clear: make the existing feature just work well. *shurg*

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You can put the "role" in all you want, but if the AI doesn't handle the minors properly, the role is a waste.

It seems to me that many in this thread are suggesting workarounds and settings and all manner of jumping through hoops. The answer here is clear: make the existing feature just work well. *shurg*

Absolutely agree with you, it should be handled properly. That's why I was saying this is being discussed in the other thread. Markus was already involved in that discussion, and if you build on it he's more likely to see what everyone is asking for. Keep it together so Markus doesn't have to trudge around the board looking for "all" the threads on the same topic instead of making it easy for him and keeping it in one. Seems to me since he's the guy who does the programming, keeping the information he needs in as few places as possible would make it easier for him to refer to once he starts working on it. *shrug*

[RchW]

Originally Posted by oman19

I really have had no issues letting the AI handle the minors either. Every once and awhile something will having me scrarch my head but nothing extreme.

I play with full minors and ghost players on.

I'm another in the minority it seems that has no issues or better said no issues that bother me enough. I just wish the game would not freeze on me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Absolutely agree with you, it should be handled properly. That's why I was saying this is being discussed in the other thread. Markus was already involved in that discussion, and if you build on it he's more likely to see what everyone is asking for. Keep it together so Markus doesn't have to trudge around the board looking for "all" the threads on the same topic instead of making it easy for him and keeping it in one. Seems to me since he's the guy who does the programming, keeping the information he needs in as few places as possible would make it easier for him to refer to once he starts working on it.

Edit - almost forgot - *shrug*

Spare me the lecture. I am quite aware of the information that developers need in order to address issues, and I am further aware that this needs to be addressed differently from that which is discussed in the thread you referenced. The other thread is talking about a new feature. I am talking about fixing a situation that's dang near broken before bothering to implement a new feature on top of a near-broken system. And so you don't have to fret about it, you can be assured that I made sure that Markus would be aware of the information posted here.

[cuervo72]

I haven't checked out all of the features of v13, so this may be taken care of. But I noticed in doing league admin in v11 that under the league rules there are max and min ages that can be set...for the MAJOR league level. Wouldn't it make much more sense to have these for the MINORS, if anything?

This convo has come up at FOBL, where we have a rookie league which was created with young players in mind, and set some restrictions on who could be placed there (new draftees, those 20 or under). The problem comes in when folks want to AI their minor leagues, and 27yo scrubs wind up in the rookie league, defeating its purpose.

[MooK881]

Is it broken or will you not try the suggestions mentioned by others in this thread...OOTP has many options that you may not even think have a link there function to help your problem...such as:

1.) not using ghost players
2.) locking players in positions so the AI cannot touch them
3.) changing the AI evaluation of talent

It is an extremely complex game and you need to customize to make it work the way you want....you cannot assume the a game with this many options will work exactly the way you want it.

My minors work fine! I spent a lot of time setting up the leagues the way I want them and everything works perfectly.

If you put no effort in...you will get nothing back....

Additionally, it is one thing to be frustrated and make a suggestion...but do not attack people and keep it civil....there is no constructive reason to be angry...just like there is no constructive reason to have that quote in your messages about markus...kind of cowardly shot especially since it is an "unnamed person"

if you cannot keep it civil don't post on the boards....