How long do online leagues last?

[f.montoya]

Well here are some stats from AllSimBaseball that I thought I would share. In case anyone is thinking about starting an online league, they should probably know ahead of time the odds of having a successful league that stays around for a while.

• Of the 269 online leagues that have ever been hosted by AllSimBaseball since late 2004, 53 are still active.
• Of the 53 active online leagues, 2 leagues have been active for more than five years, 8 for more than four years, 3 for more than three years, 7 for more than two years and 10 have been active for more than a year.
• That leaves 23 leagues, of which 4 have been active for at least 6 months and 9 leagues have passed the 3 month mark. 10 leagues have just started out and have been around less than 3 months.
• Of the 216 defunct leagues, only 4 of them went on for more than 3 years.
• Only 6 defunct leagues lasted at least 2 years and 24 others went defunct before reaching 2 years.
• The remaining 182 leagues went defunct before reaching 1 year, with 71 of them gone before reaching 6 months and another 65 leagues never even lasting a full month.

What does all this really mean? Not much. But it should serve as a reminder that running your own online league is like a job, and instead of getting paid to do it, you pay to do it.

As far as advice on how to create a successful, active league with longevity, I'm sure several vets here on the boards would be willing to share some tips.

[beorn]

I wonder what the breakdown is among fictional, historical, and modern leagues.

My sense is that modern leagues are a bit of a death trap if you are looking for a long running online league. The commish and the GMs are brought together by an interest in current major league baseball, but as soon as play commences, the OOTP version diverges from the MLB version. Real life players surprise and disappoint while OOTP players undergo talent bumps and dips... and that is before crops of fictional ammy draft players arrive.

As an individual GM, you may be prepared for this, but chances are that most of the other GMs are not, and the number of semi-involved GMs damages the league, as does the actual turnover.

Of course, a few online leagues successfully morph from modern leagues to fictional leagues, but it's my impression that it's rare.

[hluraven]

Good points beorn, and it may be that some of the leagues fidel mentions are in fact re-starts of modern leagues rather than finished/new leagues.

[gollum65]

I'm the commish of a league that's been operating in one form or another (we've had 2 versions of the league) since 2008, and I'm also a GM in two other leagues that have both run longer then mine.

Not trying too toot my own horn here as this statement applies to all 3 of my leagues, but to me the #1 factor by far that contributes to the longevity and success of any league is the commitment and skill of a it's Commish. Personally I found running a league MUCH MUCH harder and more work then I anticipated but I stuck with it and I'm now pretty happy with how my league is running.

Bottom line if you're looking to start a league or join one is that you need a good Commish.

[RonCo]

The data basically says that if you get past 1 full year you've got a chance at having a pretty decent league, and if you get past two years you're probably established to the point of being considered fully operational. Until that point, commissioners and league members are still making that league a way of life. In that way, it's kind of like any other life style change, eh?

[Fearbobafett]

Not sure where our league ranks on Fiedel's list as we have only been with his a lgoing into our 3rd or 4th year, but we are starting up the 1946 season and started the historical league in 1901.

I think we have been more lucky than anything, as we have a core group of owners that have been with the league a very long time, and about half the league this is thier only league.

Not to say we have not had any down times, but thankfully everyone went with the flow during those times and we still continue on. Granted we had to make some changes to how history actually went (I think the biggest thing was splitting into 2 divisions per league in the 20's so we had 2 playoff teams each league vs 1 and having a team every year run away with things). It does take a committed commish, but just as important is finding the right set of owners for the make-up of that league so the league and the commish can co-exisit with how things are run.

[PotatoPeeler]

The Classic Baseball Union has been in operation for 2 years and 3 months thus far. We are now entering our 11th season of baseball.

[TribeFanInNC]

Great data. I wish being a commissioner was less like a job. As an owner, I feel bad about how much time it takes. I've always liked the idea of being a commissioner, but never wanted the constant time drain.

[gollum65]

Well, to be fair when your league runs well it's more like a very part time job. When my league is clicking on all cylinders it takes about 6 hours a week to run. It's just when things break that the time commitment gets out of hand. :| It also helps a ton to have reliable league presidents / assistant commisioners to help you run your league. I have 2 great guys that help me run mine.

[EagleFan]

When I used to run leagues (actually had a web site with multiple leagues) my original league ran for about 5 years. It only died out because of personal reasons which caused me to stop running the site and a major blow up that happened in a couple different leagues helped me make the decision to end it (didn't think that I needed to be a baby sitter for the team owners).

If you have good team owners it can help the league last longer. I also like Fictional leagues much better for running leagues. There are no preconceived opinions of players and since you begin as fictional it doesn't cause people to lose interest once a few seasons pass and the league starts to become fictional.

[PineTar]

Not all leagues make it to a second decade?

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by PineTar

Not all leagues make it to a second decade?

OOTP itself has just breached into a second decade(13 years I think total). This question will be answered soon.

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by beorn

I wonder what the breakdown is among fictional, historical, and modern leagues.

My sense is that modern leagues are a bit of a death trap if you are looking for a long running online league. The commish and the GMs are brought together by an interest in current major league baseball, but as soon as play commences, the OOTP version diverges from the MLB version. Real life players surprise and disappoint while OOTP players undergo talent bumps and dips... and that is before crops of fictional ammy draft players arrive.

As an individual GM, you may be prepared for this, but chances are that most of the other GMs are not, and the number of semi-involved GMs damages the league, as does the actual turnover.

Of course, a few online leagues successfully morph from modern leagues to fictional leagues, but it's my impression that it's rare.

I don't have exact data but from my own observation of leagues hosted with AllSimBaseball, about 80% of the defunct leagues started as "current roster" leagues. Historical leagues are second and it appears that fictional leagues, although they make up the minority of online leagues, seem to have an edge as far as making it beyond a year or more.

[yajeflow]

i'm guessing that the Rude Island Baseball Congregation is apparently one of fidel's older leagues now. nice!

we started with OOTP 2007 after the input of the soccer guys made the program a legitimate platform for our needs. from the get-go, the mantra has been 'stability'. we worked on making it stable prior to launch. there are never going to be changes to the financial aspect, no inflation, no changing team names, no changing player names, no tweaking the stat model, etc. - a million dollars in 1818 is a million dollars in 1918. the record book is sacred.

the RIBC is a fictional league. this may have lead to the stability as shown by others, it is also largely made up of friends. the friend aspect is most likely for the continued success. we had a team vacancy for several seasons. we did not rush to fill it. we waited to make sure the RIGHT owner was secured. in the meantime, the team was league-managed and focused on building a financially stable platform to help secure a solid future for the new owner.

we run the league slowly. just two games per real day, with four minor leagues and two feeder leagues (HS and COL). keep the pace down, and you get to know players well. we are just wrapping up the 11th season. we do not automatically jump to the next platform. we are on OOTPX right now, and may not switch to OOTP 12 at all. unless our studies show that it is not going to change our stat model and that is does not have issues, then we won't do it.

actually, that is why i am on the forum right now: someone suggested that 12 was a step backwards for online leagues, and i wanted to gain a consensus to make the best decision. as of now, 1823 will see the RIBC using OOTPX still. and that is just fine.

my biggest concern is making sure that fidel remains healthy. i would hate to have to look around at a different option for hosting our league. he is glorious.

[darkcloud4579]

FOBL is 10 years old in real actual earth years.

[griffeyin98]

one of the things I've tried to do (MTBL started real rosters 2009) is fill in the first few amateur drafts with real prospects, so 2 years down the road we all recognize and have players from this years draft. Made the real player factor last a bit longer. I also believe the decision to contract to 24 teams has helped us with keeping solid gms. 30 or more teams just adds to the pain of finding competent and active gms

[EdReed20]

I wonder whether there's any data in regards to the differences in longevity between:

1) leagues that have scouting ON
2) leagues that have scouting OFF

It seems to me that scouting ON often results in a two-class society forming:

On the one side you have clever GMs that draft well, strategize well and make sound decisions, plus ruthless GMs that may not be too clever, but will identify weaker/less smart GMs and rip them off like there's no tomorrow (when scouting is ON, you run the risk of dramatically over/underrating players - and can be taken advantage of).

On the other side you got the guys that get ripped off, and generally make one headscratching decision after the other.


Once the gap between the talent-rich and talent-poor becomes too great, half the league starts mailing it in and GM turnover increases (one step away from the league folding now).

What I'm saying, I guess, is that scouting OFF probably is the way to go for longevity, but I would be interested if there are stats to back this thesis up.

[griffeyin98]

Another thing I've noticed in leagues I was in before starting my own is people tend to let a commish go too long when they start "mailing it in". Which makes it tough when there are teams out there just doing nothing but ruining good players and prospects and then the 12 active owners only seem to trade with each other, makes the league get boring faster

[scotto313]

I wonder how many leagues are at least 10 years old.

[beorn]

Originally Posted by scotto313

I wonder how many leagues are at least 10 years old.

10 seasons? Quite a few, given the fact I belong to several myself.

Ten real life years? Probably not many. Dog Days goes back to February 2003 and we've done forty some seasons, but not ten real life years.

Remember that for a league to have ten real life years of existence, it would have had to start with something like OOTP2. I believe 3 was the first one I played online (the old Gone Gold league) and I think it was 4 that Dog Days started with. Those were not very convenient to online play, and not very secure against cheating. And the percentage of OOTP players with good online connections was much lower.