06/08 Update: New injury-related features in OOTP 12

[RandyTiger]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

We can turn off rust right? In online leagues this might be something hard to control.

AFAIK, you cannot turn off rust.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

We can turn off rust right? In online leagues this might be something hard to control.

You can not turn it off presently and I'd assume you can not turn it off in future versions, including 12.

It surprises me how few people know "rust" is already in the game. OOTP 12 doesn't introduce the concept, it merely allows you to have a player work the rust out on a rehab assignment rather than in the majors (assuming you have minor leagues). I don't see how this will be any harder to control in v12 than it is now.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, as stated, it's in there, and I believe it's in there with *any* amount of not playing, whether it's because of injury or not. The lone exception appears to be placing a guy on the reserve roster, which neither fatigues nor rusts a player. And yeah, this has been in the game for a few iterations, at least going back to 9.

[jaxmagicman]

Learn something new every day. So I guess I would be hurting myself if I sat my players rightt before the playoffs.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Learn something new every day. So I guess I would be hurting myself if I sat my players rightt before the playoffs.

Wouldn't this be like real life?

With the expanded roster you don't have to sit them for days at a time. You can get them an AB or two and then replace them in some games with an extra day off in between. This is how I've always handled it along with making sure if we've clinched to give the "big guns" the last day of the season off to rest.

Little more touchy with pitchers, again like real life. Are you better off having your #1 SP skip his last start totally but risk him losing his edge by not pitching for ~10 days? Or should you run him out there with the idea of getting him 5 innings or ~75 pitches, which ever comes first, to keep him sharp?

Whether rust does accumulate during regular season or not in OOTP I've always played like it does. So in end of season situations I'm trying to both avoid injury and yet keep my guys sharp for the playoffs.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Learn something new every day. So I guess I would be hurting myself if I sat my players rightt before the playoffs.

It takes a while before rust accumulates enough to make it matter. But yes, if you sat your players out for all of September to rest them for the playoffs, this would probably be counter-productive.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RandyTiger

AFAIK, you cannot turn off rust.

Rust never sleeps.

[mikestack]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Wouldn't this be like real life?

With the expanded roster you don't have to sit them for days at a time. You can get them an AB or two and then replace them in some games with an extra day off in between. This is how I've always handled it along with making sure if we've clinched to give the "big guns" the last day of the season off to rest.

Little more touchy with pitchers, again like real life. Are you better off having your #1 SP skip his last start totally but risk him losing his edge by not pitching for ~10 days? Or should you run him out there with the idea of getting him 5 innings or ~75 pitches, which ever comes first, to keep him sharp?

Whether rust does accumulate during regular season or not in OOTP I've always played like it does. So in end of season situations I'm trying to both avoid injury and yet keep my guys sharp for the playoffs.

Hmm, I wonder if there'd be a way to get the AI to model this as well. Once you've clinched you go into get ready for playoffs mode and limit your best players.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Rust never sleeps.

Until we find a way to coat our players in stainless steel anyway.

[fantom1979]

I am hopeful that this "feature" gets cleaned up before the game is released. This was announced on 6/8, LGO pointed out what I would consider a "game breaking" bug with the feature on the same day. Here we are a week later and 5 days before release and no one knows for sure if the feature will be implemented correctly.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I am hopeful that this "feature" gets cleaned up before the game is released. This was announced on 6/8, LGO pointed out what I would consider a "game breaking" bug with the feature on the same day. Here we are a week later and 5 days before release and no one knows for sure if the feature will be implemented correctly.

Why is what LGO mentioned game breaking? If anything, to me it just seems like a minor detail that optimally would be corrected, but doesn't really affect the usage of the feature.

[Qwerty75]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Yeah, as stated, it's in there, and I believe it's in there with *any* amount of not playing, whether it's because of injury or not. The lone exception appears to be placing a guy on the reserve roster, which neither fatigues nor rusts a player. And yeah, this has been in the game for a few iterations, at least going back to 9.

Mentioned earlier in the thread and in others: Rust doesn't accumulate from not playing in games during the season. There is currently no "bench rust" in the game.

Players will have accumulated rust in these two situations: 1) They are out with an injury of 14 days or more; and 2) at the beginning of Spring Training after the offseason layoff. AFAIK, offseason rust doesn't affect those starting the season in the minor leagues.

[Syd Thrift]

Are you sure? I'm not aware that the game is that sophisticated regarding rest/rust TBH.

[Qwerty75]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Are you sure? I'm not aware that the game is that sophisticated regarding rest/rust TBH.

How rust works according to Markus

See also posts #68 and #69 of this thread.

[Mancandy]

This is fantastic. Rehab assignments were near the top of my wish list. Even if it's not implemented perfectly, it's better than not having it at all.

But I do hope that the player on rehab assignment isn't counted towards your minor league roster limit and forces you to send other players to lower minors to make room..

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Wouldn't this be like real life?

With the expanded roster you don't have to sit them for days at a time. You can get them an AB or two and then replace them in some games with an extra day off in between. This is how I've always handled it along with making sure if we've clinched to give the "big guns" the last day of the season off to rest.

Little more touchy with pitchers, again like real life. Are you better off having your #1 SP skip his last start totally but risk him losing his edge by not pitching for ~10 days? Or should you run him out there with the idea of getting him 5 innings or ~75 pitches, which ever comes first, to keep him sharp?

Whether rust does accumulate during regular season or not in OOTP I've always played like it does. So in end of season situations I'm trying to both avoid injury and yet keep my guys sharp for the playoffs.

I am not in favor of putting anything into the game that cannot be proven statistically. It is like adding a clutch rating, or game handler rating. There is no evidence that can be used statistically so it shouldn't be in the game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I am not in favor of putting anything into the game that cannot be proven statistically. It is like adding a clutch rating, or game handler rating. There is no evidence that can be used statistically so it shouldn't be in the game.

I get your argument but to me it comes down to it being a game and some things, to make it more realistic\life like, need to be in the game. I guess to me it comes down to us not being able to measure or prove clutch or catcher's skill in calling a game and if it makes a difference. Some would argue that it simply doesn't exist IRL. My opinion on C skill is the only difference it really makes is in the pitcher's mind with that particular P being comfortable throwing to that particular C. So in the end, with regard to OOTP, I think there is a consensus that this can't be done without just making something up.

Can we say the same about "rust"(using the game's term) though? Really, is there an argument for having no rust since we can't measure, to a certainty, it's effect? I assume then you don't like "off-season rust"? Players should report for spring training in mid-season form? What if I'm the '27 Yankees and I've clinched the pennant on Aug 31, should I be able to let Ruth sit the entire month of Sept and then have him start the first game of the WS with no penalty? In your world I should be able to since we can't really measure the effect of having Ruth sit a month so it shouldn't be in the game. Yes, this is an extreme example but if "rust" comes in a month why is that ok but 14 days isn't? I could argue 7 days would be too much and something no real life manager would do and yet OOTP gives 14 days before "rust" appears(yet it appears only in an injury situation and of course off-season).

I have no idea where Markus came up with the 14 day number and I don't really care unless someone can come up with a valid reason for a different number. I think it is reasonable and realistic to expect some kind of fall off in performance until a player gets his timing back. To me, not having "rust" would be worse than having a game developer pick a reasonable number to use as a cutoff to establish when "rust" does or does not come into play.

FWIW I never knew for sure if "in season rust" occurred or not, I just played my game as if it did. I am disappointed to find out per Markus that it doesn't. The game loses a bit of reality when I don't have to get my "last man in the bullpen" an inning here or there to keep him in "game shape". The same for my closer if I have a week long streak of winning games with no save situations. I should have to get him up for an inning somewhere in that time span to keep him sharp. Same for bench players. Batting practice is fine and dandy but it does not mimic live pitching or game situations. A player has to play to be at his best. The game should have a reasonable way to make this happen, measurable or not.

My 2 cents.

[ctorg]

I'm okay with some things being in the game that are not statistically proven, as long as they're not disproven and they make some logical sense. Rust fits those criteria for me. I also think keeping its exact degree of influence as an unknown is good, since it's unknown in real life as well.

What baseball players usually say - and I think this makes sense - is that rust doesn't affect batters all that much but it really affects pitchers, particularly starters, who need to get their arms in throwing shape.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I am not in favor of putting anything into the game that cannot be proven statistically. It is like adding a clutch rating, or game handler rating. There is no evidence that can be used statistically so it shouldn't be in the game.

Agree 100%. That statement should be an OOTP game design principle.

[Syd Thrift]

edit: blarg