06/08 Update: New injury-related features in OOTP 12

[perfectDARK]

Rehab assignments sound great. Especially since it has some practical value. Now that great scenario: playoff stretch, big star comes off the DL, send him down to get rhythm or rush his return to try and help the club

Great stuff

[hfield007]

Does the AI/computer use rehab assignments?

[Donevyn]

This is great! Thanks for the update Markus. Can't wait!

[GMLoophole]

These are great additions.

I hope at some point that the randomness of the injury/severity is modelled more rationally. It seems like there is a certain injury likelihood, then a basically-equal chance that the injury will be a stubbed toe or a blown ACL.

If that's just my cynical impression, I'd be happy to be corrected.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

These are great additions.

I hope at some point that the randomness of the injury/severity is modelled more rationally. It seems like there is a certain injury likelihood, then a basically-equal chance that the injury will be a stubbed toe or a blown ACL.

If that's just my cynical impression, I'd be happy to be corrected.

Consider yourself corrected Injury frequency / severeness is based on research and matches real life pretty well.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by mikestack

The new injury system sounds awesome-- just a quick question, does the retroactive DL dates apply to minor league players as well or just for the major league disabled list?

Minor league as well.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by hfield007

Does the AI/computer use rehab assignments?

Good question..

Thanks, Markus.. I think I'm going to take the 20th off!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

While I was in good mood, I also added rehab assignments to the minor leagues. You can send a player to the minors (right-click menu -> transactions submenu) directly from the DL if the DL time has ended. Position players may stay 20 days in the minors and pitchers 30 days. A minor league option is not used in this case.

In regards to the bolded, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... there's a problem in what you've described. It's this:

Players on rehab assignments are still on the DL. They never leave it. Rehab assignments can only be done while the player is on the DL.

From Article XIX (C) (1) of the CBA (emphasis added):

There shall be no assignment of a Player by a Major League Club to a Minor League club while such Player is on a Major League Disabled List; provided, however, that with the Player’s written consent, a copy of which shall be forwarded to the Association, and with the approval of the Commissioner, a Player on the Disabled List may be assigned to a Minor League club for up to a maximum of twenty days (thirty days for pitchers) for each injury, or reoccurrence of an injury, for the purpose of rehabilitation, subject to the limits contained in Article XIII(H).

The player remains on the DL during the entire time of the rehab assignment. It's been that way since at least 1990, and probably before.

It sounds like you've made it so that a player comes off the DL and then is sent on a rehab assignment; if so, that's incorrect, and it opens the door to potential issues. For example, it means clubs in OOTP get a "free" DL slot while a player is on a rehab assignment that real clubs don't get. Then there's the question of what happens should a player be reinjured while on the rehab assignment. In real life, since the player never left the DL, it doesn't affect things; but in OOTP then what happens? The player has to go back onto the DL, but the major league or minor league one?

[Dr. dru]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In regards to the bolded, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... there's a problem in what you've described. It's this:

Players on rehab assignments are still on the DL. They never leave it. Rehab assignments can only be done while the player is on the DL.

From Article XIX (C) (1) of the CBA (emphasis added):

The player remains on the DL during the entire time of the rehab assignment. It's been that way since at least 1990, and probably before.

It sounds like you've made it so that a player comes off the DL and then is sent on a rehab assignment; if so, that's incorrect, and it opens the door to potential issues. For example, it means clubs in OOTP get a "free" DL slot while a player is on a rehab assignment that real clubs don't get. Then there's the question of what happens should a player be reinjured while on the rehab assignment. In real life, since the player never left the DL, it doesn't affect things; but in OOTP then what happens? The player has to go back onto the DL, but the major league or minor league one?

This is a good point. I hope it gets fixed before the game is released and not just added as an update.

[Syd Thrift]

This sounds like a really cool feature. That being said, will the diagnosis show up in the injury log? As a "god mode" player, one thing I do at the end of the day is look at the injury log to see who got hurt, adjust rosters accordingly, and then take a look at the Under the Knife report to see who is about to be healthy again. If this info doesn't show up in the injury log, that would really, really mess things up for people like me.

[byzeil]

Great additions Markus! Counting the days.....

Question regarding rust/rehab. When I player is coming off injury/DL and has some amount of rust on him his performance is reduced and the likelihood of re-injury is increased, correct? If so, is the chance of re-injury less while on a rehab assignment rather than if he went straight back to the major league roster?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In regards to the bolded, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... there's a problem in what you've described. It's this:

Players on rehab assignments are still on the DL. They never leave it. Rehab assignments can only be done while the player is on the DL.

There goes his good mood.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Consider yourself corrected Injury frequency / severeness is based on research and matches real life pretty well.

First the positive...
The rehab assignments sounds like a nice addition. Even if it doesn't get corrected to work like the actual rule as LGO pointed out it is still a positive addition.

Now the negative
I thought it has been pointed out that the severity or frequency of injuries are not realistically split up between pitchers and batters. I thought RonCo (or someone else respected) showed that severe injuries happen too much for position players and too little for pitchers. I don;t know if I am remembering this exactly right but I'm sure you understand the point.

[jar2574]

Originally Posted by robc

First the positive...
The rehab assignments sounds like a nice addition. Even if it doesn't get corrected to work like the actual rule as LGO pointed out it is still a positive addition.

Now the negative
I thought it has been pointed out that the severity or frequency of injuries are not realistically split up between pitchers and batters. I thought RonCo (or someone else respected) showed that severe injuries happen too much for position players and too little for pitchers. I don;t know if I am remembering this exactly right but I'm sure you understand the point.

My recollection is that someone did point out that problem but it was fixed either in OOTP 11 or a patch to OOTP 11. I am pretty sure that pitchers are now much more likely to suffer long-term injuries.

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Consider yourself corrected Injury frequency / severeness is based on research and matches real life pretty well.

Duly noted, and thanks for the reply.

[neojonas]

Do players coming off the DL have different amount of rust? Someone with a broken leg should have more rust, and therefore should play more rehab, then someone with a sore muscle. I love these features, but I don't want to have everyone doing a lot of rehab after every injury.

And how do we know the rust is gone or mostly gone? In real life you can ask the player how they are feeling and observe them physically playing the game. How do we do that here?

[Overkill]

On an injury-related note, any chance we could get a "personal message" sort of deal when ANY player in the universe gets a career ending injury? I realize they are part of baseball and can almost all be edited out aside from when players encounter setbacks, but every now and then I'd like to play a career without them.

I only ask for a personal message instead of editing them out because, this way, we can go into Commissioner mode and decide the fate of the player ourselves. A personal message that pauses the simulation when it happens may also allow us to avoid having the player be immediately released and thus lose his contract information.

I'm just trying to think of seemingly simple solutions for aspects of the game that may not be considered problems by all, but I'm sure there are some people that agree with me.

Otherwise, if somebody can tell me how to COMPLETELY eliminate CEIs I would be quite happy and the rest of my message will be proven useless. I'll clarify again that I don't mean simply editing them out in the injuries.txt file, as I'm sure we all know that suffering a setback can still cause a CEI and as far as I know, setbacks are not coded in the injuries.txt file.

I will say that this retroactive DL has me excited. But I'd have to agree with one person who mentioned the 15-day and 60-day transfer thing. With a new feature that will not immediately reveal the severity of the injury, the player will be unavailable and thus on a DL. But if we do not know even an estimate of how long the player will be out for and thus place him on the 15-day DL only to find that he will miss more than 60 days in total, that's one spot on the 40-man roster (if using 40-man) that becomes unavailable.

[AirmenSmith]

Originally Posted by jar2574

My recollection is that someone did point out that problem but it was fixed either in OOTP 11 or a patch to OOTP 11. I am pretty sure that pitchers are now much more likely to suffer long-term injuries.

Yeah I remember them saying Ronco injury settings have made it into the game in a previous version.

[Biggio509]

Sounds great. One question though do the rehab assignment guys count against minor league roster limits? In real life they don't and it could cause some minor issues if they do in the game like having to send some one down a level until the player's rehab is over.

[the_32_pitch]

Rehab assignments are going to be fun.