A poll about women's / mixed leagues - Page 14

The Wolf · 05-20-2011, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I do feel a feature such as this is in fact a total waste of time. Development resources do not need to go into something like this when there are so many other priorities on the list.

And that's the main point. What modders do is what modders do, but dev resources are limited and precious. A women's baseball mod will be a very silly mod, and it will make OOTP and its players look silly, but at least it wouldn't waste any developer time.

Athletics17 · 05-20-2011, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It was a softball league, not a baseball league. Look it up.

At the beginning it was like softball, but not at the end. The league evolved.

Athletics17 · 05-20-2011, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athletics17

Just want to say I love your tenacity.

I do realize that the game rule were not the exact same as MLB. But given the evolution from 1943 to 1954, the game was becoming more similar to men's baseball. By the end of the league they were pitching overhand with the same ball size. Basepaths were 5 feet shorter and the pitching mound was 6" shorter. The strategy was the same. Little League baseball is has only 60 feet basepaths and the mound is 46" away. Is that not 'real' baseball.

We can make the argument that the deadball era wasn't real baseball because the ball wasn't wound as tight as it is today. But that would be my opinion.

I would to know your exact definition of the baseball, because I haven't heard it. All I hear is your opinion and not many facts. We can go back prior to 1900 and discount the American Association, Player's League, the initial National League and all the leagues before because it wasn't the exact game played today.

I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with. Because it is an opinion. To say it never existed....is a little far fetched. We can just say we can agree to disagree.

AAGPBL Rule of play

I looked it up.

Cryomaniac · 05-20-2011, 04:35 AM

I'd be interested to know, in light of this discussion, what people would say if a poll had been made before version 2006 asking whether people liked the idea of being able to make leagues in countries other than the US.

GMLoophole · 05-20-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

it will make OOTP and its players look silly

Other than your brothers in the Marine Corps who question your choice of elf-related baseball gaming, which I appreciated learning about, why do you care at all how "OOTP and its players look"?

This is a computer game, and for that matter it's not like people across the nation gathered in bars and cafes to play Strat-o-Matic together. Baseball simulation is nerdery at its finest. Accept reality and enjoy your game with pride.

Cooleyvol · 05-20-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It was a softball league, not a baseball league. Look it up.

I don't have to look it up. I already know that initially, the league used a large ball, but over time, the ball size shrank (until it matched the size of a baseball) and the mound was moved back.

Maybe you should have looked it up.

I'll add that I was initially on your side (still am with regard to dev resources being used), but your methods make it easy to pull against you. I've already provided two mods that I would never use myself. A little sugar goes a long way and your abrasiveness on this leaves me wondering if you're not merely wanting the attention it brings.

Chicagofan76 · 05-20-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It was a softball league, not a baseball league. Look it up.

I did not now that, now i am sorry i mentioned it....I was basing what i said along with what the movie was like.

The Wolf · 05-20-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I don't have to look it up. I already know that initially, the league used a large ball, but over time, the ball size shrank (until it matched the size of a baseball) and the mound was moved back.

It was never regulation baseball. It started as pure softball, and as the league began to fail, became more and more LIKE baseball to try to attract more fans. But it never was baseball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I'll add that I was initially on your side (still am with regard to dev resources being used), but your methods make it easy to pull against you. I've already provided two mods that I would never use myself. A little sugar goes a long way and your abrasiveness on this leaves me wondering if you're not merely wanting the attention it brings.

Oh, yeah, my terrible methods: firmly opposing the idea but not attacking the people on the other side - I guess that is kind of unheard of around here, where everyone calls everyone on the other side names and analyzes their motivations ("You're all sexists!" "You're all PC!"). But this is just more meta-argument, more meaningless psychobabble. Stick to the issues, people. The only thing I want here - absolutely no kidding - is for this idea to go away forever, to have a metaphorical stake driven through its heart and then be burned so that no one would ever, ever, try to resurrect it. Failing that, move it to the mods forum. In fact, PLEASE move this whole thing to the mods forum where it belongs and do whatever it is that you want to do about it there. I promise not to ever comment on it there.

But if you ever want to waste dev time with this awful idea expect spirited opposition.

Cryomaniac · 05-20-2011, 06:21 PM

Of course they'll be opposition. I'm sure they'll be opposition to OOTP 13 containing graphics. The whole point of having a discussion is so the people in favour and those opposed can voice their opinions.

rudel.dietrich · 05-20-2011, 07:33 PM

I think Ctorg said it best. This is a baseball simulator, not exclusively a professional baseball simulator.
You can create and simulate semi professional and amateur leagues.
I played in co-ed hardball league with real mounds at the right distance and stealing allowed. Local businesses would sponsor us and we had real umpires. It was real baseball, just not professional. It had lots and lots of women players.
So therefore by extension you could simulate this in OOTP.

The Wolf · 05-20-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Of course they'll be opposition. I'm sure they'll be opposition to OOTP 13 containing graphics. The whole point of having a discussion is so the people in favour and those opposed can voice their opinions.

One of the big points about discussion is hopefully killing ideas like this one early.

Cryomaniac · 05-20-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

One of the big points about discussion is hopefully killing ideas like this one early.

The votes in the poll imply that that's easier said than done.

bubba22plus · 05-20-2011, 09:15 PM

Nope. Women belong in the kitchen.

Problem?

Tom the Fish · 05-20-2011, 09:30 PM

One of my favorite people of all-time:

Annabelle Lee

Tom

ctorg · 05-20-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gern44

Not to further polarize the issue... my opinion on Polls in general is that Yes and No are the only ways to go. If you don't have an opinion... then don't vote.

On this issue, I voted Yes, though its not something Id likely use.

The inclusion of Women's Leagues in OOTP would not detract from the Gameplay in any way for those that dont want it, but would benefit those that do want it.

I enjoyed A League of Their Own quite a bit and respect the history of baseball, including womens baseball.

If you are someone that dismisses the fact that there was a Woman's Baseball League, do you also dismiss the fact that there was a Negro League? Which is an intergral part of Baseballs history. How can you dismiss one, and not the other?... and how can you possibly dismiss any part of history?

This is a valid point. But this particular poll doesnt prioritize the issue, it simply asked if Women's Leagues were something people wanted.

You could make a pretty sound argument that the game the AAGPBL played was closer to MLB baseball today than MLB baseball prior to the 1890s was.

The Wolf · 05-21-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

The votes in the poll imply that that's easier said than done.

Note the use of the word "hopefully," and be aware that a lot of your "support" comes from the very sneaky way you intentionally worded the poll question. If, instead, the question was phrased as "Do you support the use of dev time to add women in the game as opposed to adding new baseball features to the game?" then I suspect that the vote would be lopsided the other way.

The Wolf · 05-21-2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba22plus

Nope. Women belong in the kitchen. Problem?

Women belong a lot of places. None of them involve playing in the MLB.

Carplos · 05-21-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Note the use of the word "hopefully," and be aware that a lot of your "support" comes from the very sneaky way you intentionally worded the poll question. If, instead, the question was phrased as "Do you support the use of dev time to add women in the game as opposed to adding new baseball features to the game?" then I suspect that the vote would be lopsided the other way.

Your version is far more leading than his. The question asks if they should be allowed to be made--for that to happen, development time would have to be taken.

Cooleyvol · 05-21-2011, 02:04 PM

CF76, you sent me a PM, but don't allow reception of PMs.

AIM me if you want the answers.

The Wolf · 05-21-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

Your version is far more leading than his.

Nonsense! My question is straight up: Do you want A or do you want B? One or the other. His, on the other hand, is sneaky.

Try to not let your support for his position disrupt your objectivity too much.

EDIT: Like it has so many others in this thread.

View Poll Results: Should OOTP allow women's leagues to be made in game?
Yes	77	52.03%
No	71	47.97%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

05-20-2011, 04:35 AM	#264
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	I'd be interested to know, in light of this discussion, what people would say if a poll had been made before version 2006 asking whether people liked the idea of being able to make leagues in countries other than the US. __________________

05-20-2011, 06:21 PM	#269
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	Of course they'll be opposition. I'm sure they'll be opposition to OOTP 13 containing graphics. The whole point of having a discussion is so the people in favour and those opposed can voice their opinions. __________________

05-20-2011, 09:15 PM	#273
bubba22plus All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Equestria Posts: 808	Nope. Women belong in the kitchen. Problem? __________________ OOTP Resident Brony

05-20-2011, 09:30 PM	#274
Tom the Fish All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jingu Stadium Posts: 510	One of my favorite people of all-time: Annabelle Lee Tom __________________ "Any talk of rebelliousness has to begin with one's profound appreciation and understanding of tradition." - Lu Shoukun

05-20-2011, 07:33 PM	#270
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	I think Ctorg said it best. This is a baseball simulator, not exclusively a professional baseball simulator. You can create and simulate semi professional and amateur leagues. I played in co-ed hardball league with real mounds at the right distance and stealing allowed. Local businesses would sponsor us and we had real umpires. It was real baseball, just not professional. It had lots and lots of women players. So therefore by extension you could simulate this in OOTP.

05-21-2011, 02:04 PM	#279
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	CF76, you sent me a PM, but don't allow reception of PMs. AIM me if you want the answers.