How do you play OOTP?

[Syd Thrift]

The #1 reason why I play fictional leagues almost entirely is that the game is really built for the fictional game. Sure, you can import players from Lahman or Spritze databases but are those really "real" players or are they just also a bunch of stats with a familiar-looking name to it as well? In the end, it may be a PITA when your stud RF prospect just doesn't pan out, but whether his name is Dave Winfield or Joe Smith, that's what happens in real-life baseball sometimes.

I'm actually cool with historical ballplayers not working out, though. My bigger issue is that particularly when you start a league, even using Garlon/Spritze's database, you don't really have enough players in there to contend with a realistic amount of injuries (in earlier years when there wasn't as much attention paid to them, you can get away with dropping things down to Medium or even in the deadball era Low but IMO any time you mess with the set-up you risk getting weird results). In real life, every team has a pool of players they can turn to if a guy in the major leagues gets hurt. Many of those players never actually get to play in the majors, or if they did get a cup of coffee it was before your league started (meaning that the game figures that player has "retired" when in fact they might still want to play but for lack of talent). Garlon/Spritze actually works out okay after 4 or 5 years but you still have that time up front where you either need to turn down injuries (which is a little unfair in that it favors top-heavy teams with shallow organizations) or generate fictional players to be there if/when your real-life guys get hurt.

My other thing, which is probably something that will eventually fix itself, is that non-hitting/pitching ratings for players can just be... off sometimes. I can accept talent changes and all that but when an Omar Vizquel gets a 6/8 at league creation, that bothers a part of me that yearns for realism. And when you're playing a league that started in 1993 and Kevin Mitchell also gets a 6/8 at third base... well, again, at that point you're really just using fictional players with historical names.

FWIW one thing that I do to help immerse myself in a league is I draft everyone on every team for the first 2 rounds (16 teams so it's not exactly onerous at 32 picks) and rename them based on people who were 20 years of age the year of the draft. Boom! I've got my fictional players with historical names, albeit slightly silly historical names at times (my Yankees franchise has, for instance, Richard Nixon behind the plate and William Burroughs in the outfield).

[lt2cents]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Well I like the real modern MLB.

Why would anyone like to play fictional? Names don't mean nothing in that type of game play. What's the fun in that?

What's the fun with playing with a bunch of names you can have almost no respect for, and the outcome is mostly anticipated and predetermined?

[SWardle]

The knock on historical play, so far, seems to be that people don't like that some stud players fail to pan out or perform as they really did. To me, that is the appeal of historical play. When I was a kid I always dreamed of having my own baseball universe where Willie McGee (one of my favorite players growing up) would get 3,000 hits and steal 1,000 bases while batting .320 every season.

I've had historical leagues where Keith Hernandez got to 3,000 hits, Don Mattingly played injury free until he was 40 and Nolan Ryan failed to get 300 wins. I'm fine with all of that. I don't want a "replay" but to create my own baseball universe.

I think it speaks to the versatility and greatness of this game that there is something for everyone here. So there is no need to argue over who's playing style is the best.

I do sometimes play fictional leagues where I create the teams, logos and uniforms and then make it a "semi-pro league" and import retired MLB'ers into the league. Usually the youngest retired players I can find. That way I have some familiarity to the league while I build a connection with the rest of the "fictional" players. That is pretty neat at times!

[fintach]

I've been playing mostly fictional, but I'm thinking of starting 12 with an experiment. I want to take the baseline MLB, expand by two teams, then swap one of the expansion teams to the NL in exchange for the Brewers (probably).

That way I will be playing an AL West expansion team and moving off immediately into fiction. The challenge -- apart from playing an expansion team -- will be adjusting to the AL style of play. I'm a lifelong NL fan (Giants) and have always hated the DH. I'm curious to see if a season or two in the AL will change my mind.

It also means I can play an MLB expansion team without matching up (often) against the Giants.

[kingcharlesxii]

Fictional. The large variety of different league possibilities you can do with fictional has kept me busy for years and I don't think I've even tried 10% of the different possibilities.

I do dabble in historical sometimes in online leagues but I have zero interest on doing it on my own. I save the "real" MLB for the arcade games if I just want to hit some dingers.

[AESP_pres]

Only historical for me. Before OOTP 11 I started with the Expos in 1969 with a rule that I can only have players who did play with the team in real life. With OOTP 11 I've started in 1871 and continue with this one, also I use the game developpement engine so surprise happen all the time (by exemple Charles Whiterow who was the strikeout king in the league for 6 seasons, before loosing it completly after a long term contract).



In real life it was another story since he only pitched one inning giving two earned runs losing the game and it was over. It's because of those kind of surprise I like playing those years

[tejdog1]

Real life all the way. And I can't do anything but my Mets.

[perfectDARK]

Originally Posted by EvilGenius

Straight up fictitious league. I like sticking teams in out of the way places, like Anchorage Alaska and Tiajuana Mexico (where the girls come easy and the knock off steroids come cheap). Also, I don't have expectations about players when the name is random. So if my prized pitching prospect tanks, well, that happens. I don't get upset because his name is Strasburg and he's "supposed" to be the next phenom. I found real players distracted me and I ended up finding myself less immersed instead of more (if that makes any sense).

I do the same. I find it less immersing when I see players batting or fielding in odd positions, like watching Todd Helton lead off.

That said, I always have a real MLB league going where I am solely the GM and only play out important games, usually at the end of the season. Even then I let my manager make all the decisions.

[BusterKing]

I use the MLB2010 roster. Started off with an inaugural draft and I am now in my 5th. season. I use scouting system accuracy set to normal.

I play all my games out on one pitch mode, I only make player substitutions for my team so that I don't take advantage of the AI.

I have trading frequency to very high, trading difficulty to very hard and trading preference to favor prospects.

Batting aging speed: .825
Batter Dev. speed: 1.150
Pitcher aging speed: .775
Pitcher Dev. speed 1.250

But very importantly I have the talent change randomness at 200 and this creates a lot of fun and challenge. With this setting you just don't know if you are trading away a prospect that could be a future star or you may think you are getting a star player just to see his numbers drop. So every trade that you make is a risk in some way, just like RL.

It's also fun to see some noticeable changes for some players in the Player Development Report without having to sim several years specially because I play every game out and it takes time to complete a season.

I am having a blast with these settings.

[stevebydac]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

It's just as easy to say "where's the fun in playing with real players and preconcieved notions of what the player should do? Must be real disappointing when Albert Pujols only hits 22 Hr's with 75 Rbi's in his prime.

That was my problem. I'd get frustrated watching real players not perform as expected.

I easily get immersed in fictional leagues. If you play (at least part of) your team's games out, your fake players will become "real" to you pretty quickly. At least it works for me. And I have no preconceived notions to frustrate me. Plus I can build league structures to my liking at the time.

[gglennwill]

I voted other because I don't have a preference. I have a fictional league, a historical fictional league and a few straight historical leagues all going at the same time. And I love to play them all equally.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by fintach

I've been playing mostly fictional, but I'm thinking of starting 12 with an experiment. I want to take the baseline MLB, expand by two teams, then swap one of the expansion teams to the NL in exchange for the Brewers (probably).

That way I will be playing an AL West expansion team and moving off immediately into fiction. The challenge -- apart from playing an expansion team -- will be adjusting to the AL style of play. I'm a lifelong NL fan (Giants) and have always hated the DH. I'm curious to see if a season or two in the AL will change my mind.

It also means I can play an MLB expansion team without matching up (often) against the Giants.

That's a very nice starting set up. Would you consider making a quickstart out of it for the lazy (ie me) amongst us?

[Layton is my Homeboy]

It is really remarkable how far this franchise has come over the years. I think the first version I played was 3 or 4. Since then, it's really grown to become a lot of things to a lot of people. Here are some of my thoughts in response to some of the discussion so far.

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

I'm actually suprised by the results as of now. I thought it would be a smaller gap between fictional and MLB. I wonder if some of the fictional votes are from ppl that play MLB but keep playing to where it is fictional after 15-20 years.

I am a bit surprised by the results as well. I suspected that fictional might come out ahead, but I assumed that real/modern would be very close behind and also that historical would have a larger share. It may be that fictional gamers simply gravitate to OOTP because it is the only product on the market that is really designed to do fictional leagues well.

Originally Posted by endgame

Just as real-life eventually becomes fictional so, in a sense, fictional becomes real life, at least with respect to managing known factors in much the same way as players of present renown. Eventually, the future Hall-of-Famers are known to us, too. And we're just as disappointed when he suddenly hits 15 HR instead of the 30+ that, "historically", we would have expected.

Funny game, isn't it? We're more the same than we realize, IMHO. What I do agree with, wholeheartedly, is that any of these areas would make drastic headway if they were the only areas focused upon. Markus' balancing act has been oddly successful. While I don't play historicals or use real rosters, I know that the clientele who do are important to his gains and the future of the game. Consequently, they're important to me, just less so.

Really insightful observations! When I play real/modern (I usually play fictional), it doesn't really take that long before I don't recognize anyone in the league anymore. Then again, I mostly GM and don't play out a lot of games. I know there are others who play each and every game of the season. Those players may not progress through the seasons to really notice the effects of the passage of time on the composition of the league.

And I think you're right: OOTP has managed to balance different modes of play in a really unique and interesting way. While there is some merit to the argument that the game would be better if OOTPD only focused on one of those modes, I also suspect that there are insights to be gained from one area that carry over to the other. In other words, working on the historical aspect of the game might reveal issues and opportunities that the developers would never have though of if they only focused on modern baseball, even though fixing those issues ends up improving the modern game.

Ultimately, I think the biggest benefit from balancing different modes is that it forces the developers to use good abstraction, particularly with respect to league rules, AI, and statistical output. Abstraction enables the developers to be more flexible as they move from iteration to iteration, which ends up improving the game in all areas.

Originally Posted by SWardle

I think it speaks to the versatility and greatness of this game that there is something for everyone here. So there is no need to argue over who's playing style is the best.

I couldn't agree more! In my opinion, OOTP is made all the better by the fact that it caters to so many different types of players.

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Fictional. The large variety of different league possibilities you can do with fictional has kept me busy for years and I don't think I've even tried 10% of the different possibilities.

I think that this is the main area where OOTP excels, and I think that is precisely because the developers have tried to incorporate the necessary options for a wide variety of styles of play. Ensuring that the underlying game framework is flexible enough to accommodate real, fictional, and historical play forces the developers to implement a huge array of options and customizations which benefit all players.

Originally Posted by gglennwill

I voted other because I don't have a preference. I have a fictional league, a historical fictional league and a few straight historical leagues all going at the same time. And I love to play them all equally.

That is fantastic. I have never tried historical myself, but perhaps I will try it in OOTP 12.

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by SWardle

Historical. I usually begin in the early 80's and play through. Once I get to about 2020 when all of the players I know have retired, I start over.

That's almost exactly the way i play except i only have 25 year leagues then start over....

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by fintach

I've been playing mostly fictional, but I'm thinking of starting 12 with an experiment. I want to take the baseline MLB, expand by two teams, then swap one of the expansion teams to the NL in exchange for the Brewers (probably).

That way I will be playing an AL West expansion team and moving off immediately into fiction. The challenge -- apart from playing an expansion team -- will be adjusting to the AL style of play. I'm a lifelong NL fan (Giants) and have always hated the DH. I'm curious to see if a season or two in the AL will change my mind.

It also means I can play an MLB expansion team without matching up (often) against the Giants.

I think playing with the DH is a bit easier to manage, because you don't have to worry a whole lot about timing when to balance bringing in a pinch hitter, vs keeping your bull pen rested for as long as possible.

Of course, with the AI the way it is, the reverse is probably true. The AI tends to not worry about the condition of it's bullpen when weighing whether or not to pinch hit for the starter. There are times when the smart thing to do is to just take the loss in the NL. If your pitcher only has 80 - 90 pitches by the 7th inning, but you have a tired pen and down by a couple of runs, don't pinch hit for the starter. Better to not score anything in the 7th and possibly lose the game, than to wear down your pen even further, or worse, bring in a tired reliever, just to have him get injured. But SteveP said the AI doesn't take condition of the pen into consideration. So it's easy to exploit that against the AI in one-pitch mode in the NL.

[Sweed]

I voted other. I am one of the start with real players and through attrition become a fictional world.

Started my game with version 4 (2002) with real players (Rolen17 roster file) and am still playing the same game importing from there all the way to version 11. I play out every inning of every game and am now in season 2021. In my world Mark Prior won over 300 games.

My intention is to buy OOTP every year and continue my current game as long as I am able. Forrest Avera and Dave "The Radar" Steves are as real to me as Harmon Killebrew and Bob Gibson. One worry I have is when on my deathbed I may be babbling about Avera, Steves, or many other players that never existed and people will think I've gone totally senile It is amazing how attached one can become to "their world".

I don't think I could ever start another game unless something catastrophic happened and my game file was lost. If the unthinkable happened though I would start the same way, real player league evolving into a fictional world. Starting with all fictional players would have no appeal at all to me.

[Cras]

Historical fiction. I do a league with fictional players that follows the path that MLB took, starting from 1876 with the founding of the National League, all the way up to present day. I can't imagine playing the game any other way.

I love to play along as baseball evolves from the game of old to the modern day, but want the fun and challenge of not knowing who the players are.

[Layton is my Homeboy]

Originally Posted by Cras

Historical fiction. I do a league with fictional players that follows the path that MLB took, starting from 1876 with the founding of the National League, all the way up to present day. I can't imagine playing the game any other way.

I love to play along as baseball evolves from the game of old to the modern day, but want the fun and challenge of not knowing who the players are.

In your setup, do you use the actual teams and fictional players? I ask because I do something similar, although the teams are also fictional (although, they follow a path that is roughly similar to history).

[The Wolf]

Just look at all the different things we do with the same game. It's amazing.

[robc]

I have almost always just played historical, but in OOTP 11 I also started a fictional league. I hope OOTP 12 fixes the potential calculation problem with recalc on (if interested see: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...e-working.html) or else I'm not sure I will bother playing historical anymore. My plan is to have one historical and one fictional league.