Just wanted to say "Thanks", but...

cephasjames · 02-08-2011, 09:29 PM

While I agree 100% with Vinny P. that OOTP is "the greatest baseball sim ever invented", I will not be buying it this go 'round, 25% off or no. I am thankful for this game. I will verbally support this product to anyone who is looking at buying it. I will try to get every one my baseball crazy friends to buy it. But, I will not be buying OOTP 12.

I am only one person and my $40 may not make much of a difference in the long run. But certain things, league associations and customizable play-offs, are not in this game that I think should be in it. And they are big enough things that I do not feel like spending my money on a game that does not have them. I support Markus and Co. and hope that OOTP lasts a long time, but my support this time does not come from $$$.

Chicagofan76 · 02-08-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephasjames

While I agree 100% with Vinny P. that OOTP is "the greatest baseball sim ever invented", I will not be buying it this go 'round, 25% off or no. I am thankful for this game. I will verbally support this product to anyone who is looking at buying it. I will try to get every one my baseball crazy friends to buy it. But, I will not be buying OOTP 12.

I am only one person and my $40 may not make much of a difference in the long run. But certain things, league associations and customizable play-offs, are not in this game that I think should be in it. And they are big enough things that I do not feel like spending my money on a game that does not have them. I support Markus and Co. and hope that OOTP lasts a long time, but my support this time does not come from $$$.

And MLB The Show 2k Sports High Heat any of these have these either?
or has any game other then OOTP had any of the features that OOTP has?

Even w/o graphics this is the most complete baseball game ever made.

But to each their own...Losing you is like Jay "50 Cent" Cutler not playing the 2nd half of the NFC Championship.

cephasjames · 02-08-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

And MLB The Show 2k Sports High Heat any of these have these either?
or has any game other then OOTP had any of the features that OOTP has?

Nope. And I won't be buying them either. It's just until OOTP ever gets those things I feel like what I've got is good enough.

Gambo · 02-08-2011, 11:49 PM

While not agreeing with the Cephas' stance about purchasing OOTP, I do see his point. I personally feel that OOTP makes enough improvements each year to warrant another purchase and I also do it to help a small developer.

I used to be an ardent buyer of High Heat, Madden, NCAA Football and many others each year, but I've come to realize that it's okay not to get every iteration. For these games all you get is 1 or 2 features each year (most of which you end of not using) and a new roster.

Then again I do look at it this way.... If I can get 10 hours of solid entertainment with the new features then the $40-$50 bucks match the $40-$50 bucks I would spend to watch 5 movies for 10 hours at the theatre.

fhomess · 02-09-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

Then again I do look at it this way.... If I can get 10 hours of solid entertainment with the new features then the $40-$50 bucks match the $40-$50 bucks I would spend to watch 5 movies for 10 hours at the theatre.

And this would be why I hardly ever go to the theater anymore.

People have a right to do what they want with their money when it comes to OOTP. EVERY iteration of OOTP has had people, including long time fans of the series, drop out. Some come back in a year or two, some don't. I suspect Markus and the rest of the development team are smart enough to look at their sales figures each year and figure out if their approach needs adjusting.

Personally, I like OOTP, but the new features in OOTP12 made me seriously consider not buying it. I'm just not that impressed with the improvements list this year, they seem largely like baby steps rather than significant additions. To me, the 25% discount was a way to entice me to up for another year.

Vinny P. · 02-09-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

While not agreeing with the Cephas' stance about purchasing OOTP, I do see his point. I personally feel that OOTP makes enough improvements each year to warrant another purchase and I also do it to help a small developer.

I used to be an ardent buyer of High Heat, Madden, NCAA Football and many others each year, but I've come to realize that it's okay not to get every iteration. For these games all you get is 1 or 2 features each year (most of which you end of not using) and a new roster.

Then again I do look at it this way.... If I can get 10 hours of solid entertainment with the new features then the $40-$50 bucks match the $40-$50 bucks I would spend to watch 5 movies for 10 hours at the theatre.

Not to mention the 12 bucks it costs just for a medium soda and small popcorn. I can get a great steak dinner for that price at a real steakhouse.

kq76 · 02-09-2011, 01:58 AM

I get the not wanting to fork it over every year just because, but what I myself can't take is when an important feature is nuked like player dev and personalities. I don't so much mind not getting the feature I most want (and I'm right with you, CJ, on league associations and custom playoffs being my #1 most wanted feature and #2 isn't even close), but, the way I figure it, most of the features we want get added, sooner or later and in some fashion or another. Yeah, often it's much later than we'd like (for the longest time I badly wanted the financial system re-worked and now that it's on the list I'm meh on it because it's taken too long and who knows if it'll be any good anyway), but often it does come. And what if most people didn't support OOTP during the years that they didn't really get much of what they wanted, would OOTP walk away to find more lucrative work? Maybe, maybe not, but you have to think it's a possibility and it's certainly not one I want to see happen any time soon. So in the end, I'm cool with more thinking of it as a subscription fee, and as much as I loathe the use of this word in this way, I even kind of look at it as an investment because if Markus really does deliver LA and CP in OOTP13 then buying OOTP12 will most certainly have been worth it to me.

EDIT: Still, even if he could just give us a little bit of LA and CP like he posted he might then that would be very very cool.

Chicagofan76 · 02-09-2011, 02:31 AM

I didnt disagree with CJ's stance... I have yet to preorder 12 also... I am waiting for the game to come out 1st, before I decide whether I want to get 12 or wait til 13.....my EBL league means everything to me and I want to get the 1st decade in on 11 before upgrading to 12 or if 12 doesnt have what I am looking for i will wait for 13 with its graphics and stadium builder. The last version of ootp I bought prior to 11 was 6 or 7, but at the time HH was better and more popular.

It's OK CJ

this is for you

As fate would have it, Jay's status appears
to be at an all-time high, perfect time to say goodbye
When I come back like Jordan, wearin the 4-5
It ain't to play games witchu
It's to aim at you, probably maim you
If I owe you I'm blowin you to smithereeens

Jay-Z "Encore"

mm7607 · 02-09-2011, 03:19 AM

I agree with Cephas. I'm tired of paying for a game that continues to add features I dont want and ignoring the ones I do. For now my checkbook is closed.

Le Grande Orange · 02-09-2011, 05:23 AM

What's the over/under on how long after OOTP 12 is released that cephasjames changes his mind and purchases the game because the new features included in it made it worthwhile to buy after all?

professor ape · 02-09-2011, 07:14 AM

I did not buy OOTP11 because it did not have the expanded playoffs and I will not buy OOTP12 for the same reason. League associations would be a big plus too but customized playoffs would bring me back in. The issue for me is not the $40-$50 for the game. The issue is my time investment.

I set up fictional leagues and spend a lot of time setting up logos, parks and everything else to make the game immersive. If I can't set up my league the way that I want to with first round byes and double elimination tournaments for the NCAA then I am not going to invest my valuable hours in something that I view to be incomplete.

Don't forget, MLB is getting very close to adding a wild card team to each league and having a bye for the division winners. Therefore the game is only keeping up with real life. In the case of double elimination, the game already has college baseball represented without being able to recreate their current playoff format.

True, there is not another baseball sim which comes close to OOTP but those games are not the competition for my time. I'll spend my time playing completely different games like Civilization, Assassins' Creed, or maybe I'll spend that time watching real baseball.

Vinny P. · 02-09-2011, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I get the not wanting to fork it over every year just because, but what I myself can't take is when an important feature is nuked like player dev and personalities. I don't so much mind not getting the feature I most want (and I'm right with you, CJ, on league associations and custom playoffs being my #1 most wanted feature and #2 isn't even close), but, the way I figure it, most of the features we want get added, sooner or later and in some fashion or another. Yeah, often it's much later than we'd like (for the longest time I badly wanted the financial system re-worked and now that it's on the list I'm meh on it because it's taken too long and who knows if it'll be any good anyway), but often it does come. And what if most people didn't support OOTP during the years that they didn't really get much of what they wanted, would OOTP walk away to find more lucrative work? Maybe, maybe not, but you have to think it's a possibility and it's certainly not one I want to see happen any time soon. So in the end, I'm cool with more thinking of it as a subscription fee, and as much as I loathe the use of this word in this way, I even kind of look at it as an investment because if Markus really does deliver LA and CP in OOTP13 then buying OOTP12 will most certainly have been worth it to me.

EDIT: Still, even if he could just give us a little bit of LA and CP like he posted he might then that would be very very cool.

What if Markus has already been working on it behind the scenes though? I can't help but think that re-working the financial is probably one tall order. I know from working with Action Script, MySql, and Java Script lately, the best thing to do with a complicated script is to think it through, plan, and lay it out first before trying to even think of tackling the code.

If I have trouble with those programs in doing some rather rudimentary things, I can only imagine what writing the code must be like to get the financials straightened out. Especially for code that's been around for 10+ years, and getting built upon every few years. Same with league associations.

boshk · 02-09-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Losing you is like Jay "50 Cent" Cutler not playing the 2nd half of the NFC Championship.

so your saying OOTP is going to fold and disappear? that wasnt a good comparison. it was the only reason the ass packers went to the superbowl.

cephasjames · 02-09-2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

What's the over/under on how long after OOTP 12 is released that cephasjames changes his mind and purchases the game because the new features included in it made it worthwhile to buy after all?

BusterKing · 02-09-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm7607

I agree with Cephas. I'm tired of paying for a game that continues to add features I dont want and ignoring the ones I do. For now my checkbook is closed.

So lets say that we all take that stance, 100% of the customers and Markus releases a new version and actually doesn't sell one copy. Do you think he would make another release or would it be the end of the road for this game?

That's the way I see it. I love this game and the only way I can support it where it really counts is by letting my money do the talking.

I bought every version of this game and will continue to do so. Regardless if my own requirements are met or not.

In my books, it is a wise investment to keep this great OOTP series going.

playball335 · 02-09-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

So lets say that we all take that stance, 100% of the customers and Markus releases a new version and actually doesn't sell one copy. Do you think he would make another release or would it be the end of the road for this game?

That's the way I see it. I love this game and the only way I can support it where it really counts is by letting my money do the talking.

I bought every version of this game and will continue to do so. Regardless if my own requirements are met or not.

In my books, it is a wise investment to keep this great OOTP series going.

I agree with these sentiments as well. I understand the other side of the coin. However, IMO sometimes you need to invest in the future, or the ability to ensure one exists.

Cooleyvol · 02-09-2011, 09:08 AM

Agreed. If you want to 'log' your complaints against the game, buy it at the reduced rate rather than the full price. Its 29 bucks. Most of those griping that they won't buy will blow that this weekend on nothing at all.

cephasjames · 02-09-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Agreed. If you want to 'log' your complaints against the game, buy it at the reduced rate rather than the full price. Its 29 bucks. Most of those griping that they won't buy will blow that this weekend on nothing at all.

I've wrestled with whether or not to buy it, simply because the OOTP brand is so good and I'd like to see it continue. But, since I actually won't blow $30 this weekend and money means something to me, until league associations and/or custom play-offs are in I'm choosing not to spend money on OOTP.

There has been high praise, and rightfully so, for OOTPD and this next version, but I just wanted to state why I will not be buying it. Criticism helps companies make decisions on how they do things. That's what I'm doing. Since I am only one person, Markus can do with it what he will - like he always has.

Matt Arnold · 02-09-2011, 10:41 AM

I probably won't buy it right away, but once it is released and we get real info (screen shots, feedback, etc...) on all the changes, I'll probably go ahead an buy it.

I love OOTP, but I'm more than happy with OOTP 11 that makes me not really feel the need to go out and get the newest version. So, thank you for making a product so good that I don't feel the need to buy your next one immediately

Cornelius McGillicuddy · 02-09-2011, 11:22 AM

Money is tight for a lot of people. And ver 11 is good. So if 12 doesn't have new features you want, why spend any money on it? Enough people will buy it to support the game. If 12 didn't have a save during pbp I would not buy it. Markus said it was on his list and I'm waiting until it's actually done and then I'll preorder. Not that I don't trust him but just to make sure some tech glitch didn't prevent it. There isn't anything else new that I'm interested in enough to fork over $30. So I totally agree with the OP.

02-08-2011, 11:49 PM	#4
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	While not agreeing with the Cephas' stance about purchasing OOTP, I do see his point. I personally feel that OOTP makes enough improvements each year to warrant another purchase and I also do it to help a small developer. I used to be an ardent buyer of High Heat, Madden, NCAA Football and many others each year, but I've come to realize that it's okay not to get every iteration. For these games all you get is 1 or 2 features each year (most of which you end of not using) and a new roster. Then again I do look at it this way.... If I can get 10 hours of solid entertainment with the new features then the $40-$50 bucks match the $40-$50 bucks I would spend to watch 5 movies for 10 hours at the theatre. __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

02-09-2011, 01:58 AM	#7
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,994	I get the not wanting to fork it over every year just because, but what I myself can't take is when an important feature is nuked like player dev and personalities. I don't so much mind not getting the feature I most want (and I'm right with you, CJ, on league associations and custom playoffs being my #1 most wanted feature and #2 isn't even close), but, the way I figure it, most of the features we want get added, sooner or later and in some fashion or another. Yeah, often it's much later than we'd like (for the longest time I badly wanted the financial system re-worked and now that it's on the list I'm meh on it because it's taken too long and who knows if it'll be any good anyway), but often it does come. And what if most people didn't support OOTP during the years that they didn't really get much of what they wanted, would OOTP walk away to find more lucrative work? Maybe, maybe not, but you have to think it's a possibility and it's certainly not one I want to see happen any time soon. So in the end, I'm cool with more thinking of it as a subscription fee, and as much as I loathe the use of this word in this way, I even kind of look at it as an investment because if Markus really does deliver LA and CP in OOTP13 then buying OOTP12 will most certainly have been worth it to me. EDIT: Still, even if he could just give us a little bit of LA and CP like he posted he might then that would be very very cool. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080) Last edited by kq76; 02-09-2011 at 02:00 AM.

02-08-2011, 09:29 PM	#1
cephasjames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 8,736	Just wanted to say "Thanks", but... While I agree 100% with Vinny P. that OOTP is "the greatest baseball sim ever invented", I will not be buying it this go 'round, 25% off or no. I am thankful for this game. I will verbally support this product to anyone who is looking at buying it. I will try to get every one my baseball crazy friends to buy it. But, I will not be buying OOTP 12. I am only one person and my $40 may not make much of a difference in the long run. But certain things, league associations and customizable play-offs, are not in this game that I think should be in it. And they are big enough things that I do not feel like spending my money on a game that does not have them. I support Markus and Co. and hope that OOTP lasts a long time, but my support this time does not come from $$$. __________________ 5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys

02-09-2011, 02:31 AM	#8
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	I didnt disagree with CJ's stance... I have yet to preorder 12 also... I am waiting for the game to come out 1st, before I decide whether I want to get 12 or wait til 13.....my EBL league means everything to me and I want to get the 1st decade in on 11 before upgrading to 12 or if 12 doesnt have what I am looking for i will wait for 13 with its graphics and stadium builder. The last version of ootp I bought prior to 11 was 6 or 7, but at the time HH was better and more popular. It's OK CJ this is for you As fate would have it, Jay's status appears to be at an all-time high, perfect time to say goodbye When I come back like Jordan, wearin the 4-5 It ain't to play games witchu It's to aim at you, probably maim you If I owe you I'm blowin you to smithereeens Jay-Z "Encore"

02-09-2011, 03:19 AM	#9
mm7607 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Originally from Fla, now in Ky Posts: 710	I agree with Cephas. I'm tired of paying for a game that continues to add features I dont want and ignoring the ones I do. For now my checkbook is closed.

02-09-2011, 05:23 AM	#10
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	What's the over/under on how long after OOTP 12 is released that cephasjames changes his mind and purchases the game because the new features included in it made it worthwhile to buy after all?

02-09-2011, 07:14 AM	#11
professor ape All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The belly of the beast Posts: 1,498	I did not buy OOTP11 because it did not have the expanded playoffs and I will not buy OOTP12 for the same reason. League associations would be a big plus too but customized playoffs would bring me back in. The issue for me is not the $40-$50 for the game. The issue is my time investment. I set up fictional leagues and spend a lot of time setting up logos, parks and everything else to make the game immersive. If I can't set up my league the way that I want to with first round byes and double elimination tournaments for the NCAA then I am not going to invest my valuable hours in something that I view to be incomplete. Don't forget, MLB is getting very close to adding a wild card team to each league and having a bye for the division winners. Therefore the game is only keeping up with real life. In the case of double elimination, the game already has college baseball represented without being able to recreate their current playoff format. True, there is not another baseball sim which comes close to OOTP but those games are not the competition for my time. I'll spend my time playing completely different games like Civilization, Assassins' Creed, or maybe I'll spend that time watching real baseball.

02-09-2011, 09:08 AM	#17
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Agreed. If you want to 'log' your complaints against the game, buy it at the reduced rate rather than the full price. Its 29 bucks. Most of those griping that they won't buy will blow that this weekend on nothing at all.

02-09-2011, 10:41 AM	#19
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,183	I probably won't buy it right away, but once it is released and we get real info (screen shots, feedback, etc...) on all the changes, I'll probably go ahead an buy it. I love OOTP, but I'm more than happy with OOTP 11 that makes me not really feel the need to go out and get the newest version. So, thank you for making a product so good that I don't feel the need to buy your next one immediately

02-09-2011, 11:22 AM	#20
Cornelius McGillicuddy Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Playing the inside game Posts: 763 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Money is tight for a lot of people. And ver 11 is good. So if 12 doesn't have new features you want, why spend any money on it? Enough people will buy it to support the game. If 12 didn't have a save during pbp I would not buy it. Markus said it was on his list and I'm waiting until it's actually done and then I'll preorder. Not that I don't trust him but just to make sure some tech glitch didn't prevent it. There isn't anything else new that I'm interested in enough to fork over $30. So I totally agree with the OP.