Derek Cheater

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I'm not sure he was acting, at least initially. He probably received a darn good jolt from a fastball hitting the knob of his bat squarely. His first reaction was probably real.

I've only seen the highlight clips, so I don't know how long he carried it on, but since the ump had awarded him the base immediately I'm not sure why he would have prolonged the acting, if he did.

The hand that he PRETENDED to be hit wasn't even on the bat when the ball hit the bat.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

In one game last month, we were starting to rock a pitcher when I came to bat. The first pitch grazed my shirt. The umpire said to take my base but I just stared at him with a dumb look and said it didn't hit me. I wanted to get my licks in before the pitcher was pulled.

The guy was in such trouble that his catcher would rather have me on with a HBP - so he ratted me out and told the ump that he saw it hit me.


Just another of the many ways in which I am NOT like Derek Jeter.

Do you frame your pitches? Pull the glove a couple of inches closer to the plate hoping to get the called strike? If so, you have more in common with Jeter then you think

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Your situation is quite a bit different than Jeter's. You were in a summer league game and wanted to get your swings in. Jeter was/is in a pennant race, knows he's going to get his swings in, and wanted to further the inning. Not really the same at all, actually.

In his situation, you'd have done the same thing he did, I'm sure.............or took an ass chewing from your manager.

Yeah, it was a tongue-in-cheek given that the other ways that I'm not like Derek Jeter involve hitting, fielding, running, et cetera. No need to be so prickly dude.

This is obviously not cheating, there are these folks on the field called umpires who are supposed to be the arbitors of what actually happened without respect to what players try to make appear as though has happened. Swipe a tag that you know missed and try to sell it like you got the out - make the umpire call it - same thing. Framing pitches, trapped balls, on and on and on.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Do you frame your pitches? Pull the glove a couple of inches closer to the plate hoping to get the called strike? If so, you have more in common with Jeter then you think

Oops, you beat to the framing pitches comment!

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Oops, you beat to the framing pitches comment!

Slowpoke

[kingcharlesxii]

I don't think it's cheating but it's certainly against the spirit of the game. I wish people wouldn't do things like this (framing of pitches included) - sports would be better, there'd be less arguments and everyone would have more fun. Unfortunately, human competitive nature works against that.

And yeah, I'll think less of him after this.

[RchW]

No matter what each of us believes individually, the extent of debate suggests that Jeter's behavior was just a little out of character. If he was hitting 0.330 and on a hot streak would he have reacted differently?

The incident prompts a couple of other points.

• Four umpires got together and could not get it right. If you had a supervising umpire with access to video at the game, the call could have been made correctly in less time than it actually took.

• MLB caught a big break when the Rays won the game. Had the Yankees won would all of the people who wanted Gallaraga's perfect game retroactively awarded be asking the same for the Rays?

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

I don't think it's cheating but it's certainly against the spirit of the game. I wish people wouldn't do things like this (framing of pitches included) - sports would be better, there'd be less arguments and everyone would have more fun. Unfortunately, human competitive nature works against that.

And yeah, I'll think less of him after this.

I agree but that's easier said than done.

Baseball has evolved over more than a century with this sort of gamesmanship present at all times. If it had evolved as a self-policing sport like golf things would be different but they just aren't. The umpires are there and they are responsible for calls not the players. It is what it is.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by RchW

No matter what each of us believes individually, the extent of debate suggests that Jeter's behavior was just a little out of character. If he was hitting 0.330 and on a hot streak would he have reacted differently?

The incident prompts a couple of other points.

• Four umpires got together and could not get it right. If you had a supervising umpire with access to video at the game, the call could have been made correctly in less time than it actually took.

• MLB caught a big break when the Rays won the game. Had the Yankees won would all of the people who wanted Gallaraga's perfect game retroactively awarded be asking the same for the Rays?

I am all for instant reply - there is no sense in ignoring what technology can do to improve the chances of getting things right.

On the other hand, I do like the fact that imperfection can stand (and I'm a Tigers' fan). So, I can live without it a bit longer but certainly hope that MLB will eventually go to instant replay (or 'more instant replay' to be more precise).

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Yeah, it was a tongue-in-cheek given that the other ways that I'm not like Derek Jeter involve hitting, fielding, running, et cetera. No need to be so prickly dude.

This is obviously not cheating, there are these folks on the field called umpires who are supposed to be the arbitors of what actually happened without respect to what players try to make appear as though has happened. Swipe a tag that you know missed and try to sell it like you got the out - make the umpire call it - same thing. Framing pitches, trapped balls, on and on and on.

Stating facts is prickly? Ok, Francis.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I agree but that's easier said than done.

I agree that it's hard to think lower of a Yankee than I already do.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Your situation is quite a bit different than Jeter's. You were in a summer league game and wanted to get your swings in. Jeter was/is in a pennant race, knows he's going to get his swings in, and wanted to further the inning. Not really the same at all, actually.

In his situation, you'd have done the same thing he did, I'm sure.............or took an ass chewing from your manager.

Why do you find it so hard to believe there are people out there who would have enough stones to do the right thing?

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Autism Speaks

Why do you find it so hard to believe there are people out there who would have enough stones to do the right thing?

In the situation Jeter was in? MONEY.

I never said it wasn't possible in CC's situation. In fact, my thought process was that it was very probably, given that situation.


Don't get riled up, bro. We both know that no pro player would've told the ump that he wasn't hit.................and it has nothing to do with 'stones'.

[LFC1892]

It's his job to get on-base....doesn't mean I have to like the way he did it though.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

In the situation Jeter was in? MONEY.

I never said it wasn't possible in CC's situation. In fact, my thought process was that it was very probably, given that situation.


Don't get riled up, bro. We both know that no pro player would've told the ump that he wasn't hit.................and it has nothing to do with 'stones'.

You are not reading. Nobody is saying he should have said "NO it didn't hit me." We are all pretty much saying, his acting job is what made it bad.

[stevebydac]

It's ironic that a poster named jaxmagician is upset about a man trying to make his audience believe that something happened when it really didn't!

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

It amazes me the amount of people, analyst and such that are saying, "you do what you got to do to win a ball game." in terms of what Derek Jeter did last night, but are the first people to say kick anyone out of the hall who is a known steriod user. How do you draw a line on what is just gamesmanship, and what is just flat out cheating. To me, Derek Jeter cheated last night. He pretended his hand was hit, he played it up. He told a lie. He cheated. That is not gamesmanship, that is flat out cheating.

Now if the ump said take your base, and he did. I would have no problem with it. But he pretended his hand was hit. Not even the hand that was on the bat. How in the world can someone say that is just gamesmanship?

How, exactly, did he cheat since he'd already been told to take his base? Its very possible that the jarring of the ball hitting the bat could have caused him pain.

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

You are not reading. Nobody is saying he should have said "NO it didn't hit me." We are all pretty much saying, his acting job is what made it bad.

I've read and comprehended each and every post, jax. Its nothing new. It happens all of the time in this, and other, situations. You just choose to harp on it for whatever reason you have with regard to Jeter/Yankees.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

How, exactly, did he cheat since he'd already been told to take his base? Its very possible that the jarring of the ball hitting the bat could have caused him pain.

No way. The hand that he was shaking, wasn't the hand on the bat. He had removed that hand. It was obviously a ploy.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

No way. The hand that he was shaking, wasn't the hand on the bat. He had removed that hand. It was obviously a ploy.

Why did you choose try to disprove the statement (opinion) I posted while totally ignoring the obvious question I asked?

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Why did you choose try to disprove the statement (opinion) I posted while totally ignoring the obvious question I asked?

I can't explain to you how he cheated if you don't understand. I explain it to the kids in my Sunday school every week. The results of the decision do not constitute a good decision.

If a player who shoots 2% from 3 point lines hoists a 3 pointer with a hand in his face and the ball goes in the basket, it doesn't mean it is a good shot selection.

If the ump hadn't already given Jeter the base, him shaking his hand acting like it hit him would have deceived the ump into giving him the base. It was the INTENT of the act that mattered. He meant to cheat to get on base.