Accuracy or Realism?

ctorg · 05-15-2003, 03:06 PM

After reading some recent posts, I've been wondering what the general consensus is here. Would people rather have accuracy or realism. Let me explain my definitions in this context...

Accuracy is mainly for real-player people. It's the ability of the game to produce results that reflect what specific players are or were like in real life. In other words, when you import Ruth, you get a guy who can pitch and hit great, and do either or both. Accuracy doesn't necessarily mean emulation of real life, like DMB or SOM, just that the players behave in a manner similar to their real-life counterparts.

Realism, as I'm defining it, is something not available if you do real players, especially old imported historical players. It's the ability of the game to provide a more nuanced and realistic player. In other words, elements like loyalty and leadership ability, tendencies to be good at particular positions and bad at others that the player has never played.

If you want the game to go in the direction of accuracy, it will be at the expense of fleshing out players in more detail, since there's really no way to import whether Nap Lajoie was loyal or a good leader or would have been a great left fielder from his available stats. You would, however, get very accurate depictions of real life players.

If you want to go in the direction of realism, you may find that Mackey Sasser is a great leader in the clubhouse when you import him, and guys may have other ridiculous ratings simply because they don't have stats in these areas so the game would have to randomly assign them. However, a fictional career would produce much more detailed players who act like real major leaguers, even if not specific ones.

If you had to choose one or the other as a path for the game to take, which one would you pick? This is just hypothetical stuff.

I just think that the game is kind of at a crossroads in this matter. The more the game adds elements of realism, the more unhappy historical and real roster gamers seem to get about inaccurate ratings assigned to their players. But fictional gamers seem to love the additions of these elements.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-15-2003, 03:10 PM

Ugh. I'm torn.

I want...

both.

ctorg · 05-15-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
Ugh. I'm torn.

I want...

both.

I know, it's kind of a hard choice if you do both real and fictional play, but I think at some point the game will end up having to go more one way or the other. There are only so many options we'll be able to turn on and off before the game gets bogged down with options. Not that we're there yet. The game still has some general things to do, but this may be more of an issue for OOTP7 or 8.

treedom · 05-15-2003, 03:23 PM

realism!

there's a caveat which comes with accuracy...you may want the accurate, say, darryl strawberry, but you'll never get him, except as defined by his stats...

your darryl strawberry will not have the fatal flaw which his real life counterpart had...because that data is not available for all players...

so yeah, realism may come at a sacrifice for acuracy, but acuracy sacrifices acuracy too, because it ignores factors which we know to have played a part in a player's performance...

dbacks · 05-15-2003, 03:25 PM

If I had to pick one or the other, I think I'd pick both.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-15-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

If I had to pick one or the other, I think I'd pick both.

We know who to get to program the Yogi Module for the next release.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 05-15-2003, 03:32 PM

As a hard-core historical simmer, I'm really torn on this one. I think realism is a little better though. Let's face it, the statistical record is just incomplete on the old-time players. I'd rather have the game fill in the holes than be forcibly wedded to one version of history.

LivnLegend · 05-15-2003, 03:37 PM

Realism. Since I use 99% fictional, I just want something that "seems" like it could be real life baseball.

I like "real" situations and "real" results with my fake teams and fake players

dbacks · 05-15-2003, 03:40 PM

The situation I have is that I hate fictional, or at least, I don't go fictional very often at all. So what I want is something real, but because I use real players I also need something accurate.

So I like real situations and real results with my real teams and real players.

kq76 · 05-15-2003, 03:43 PM

But what about idealism?? Sheesh, you guys always leave out the best option.

EDIT: forgot the "

". I'm learning I really mustn't forget it.

markprior22 · 05-15-2003, 03:49 PM

My vote is for realism. I used to play with historical or current major leaguers. For something different, I tried a fictional league and have never looked back. With that being said, I would obviously like the deepest "realistic" model possible. I understand the people who like to use real players and can definitely see where they are looking for accuracy.

Modern Relic · 05-15-2003, 04:04 PM

I voted for realism. But ideally both. With full graphics. But that's another thread.

JML · 05-15-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Modern Relic
I voted for realism. But ideally both. With full graphics. But that's another thread.

And cheats. We need cheats, so we can hit a homerun every AB, and strike out 27.

That would be wicked.

Edit- I voted for realism. Gotta stay relevant here.

dbacks · 05-15-2003, 04:07 PM

Isn't the editor enough?

dbacks · 05-15-2003, 04:07 PM

And not to mention league totals...

Henry · 05-15-2003, 05:11 PM

Why only 27 votes out of 192 visits ??? Either 165 folks don't care, or the 3rd choice (both) is missing....

Muppetus Galacticus · 05-15-2003, 05:11 PM

What about Communism. I'll vote for realism though...and that this was the last "ism" "joke" "

"

Muppetus Galacticus

Altec · 05-15-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Modern Relic
With full graphics

Et Tu Brutè ?

treedom · 05-15-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry
Why only 27 votes out of 192 visits ??? Either 165 folks don't care, or the 3rd choice (both) is missing....

or people who have already voted keep coming back to read the other replies...

Henry · 05-15-2003, 05:53 PM

I really do think, however, that the "both" option should be available. If it doesn't play a significant role, then fine, but the possibility that folks do, in fact, may want both, is just as important as the other two.

View Poll Results: If you had to choose, which one would you pick (see explanation below)?
Accuracy	13	15.85%
Realism	69	84.15%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

05-15-2003, 03:06 PM	#1
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Accuracy or Realism? After reading some recent posts, I've been wondering what the general consensus is here. Would people rather have accuracy or realism. Let me explain my definitions in this context... Accuracy is mainly for real-player people. It's the ability of the game to produce results that reflect what specific players are or were like in real life. In other words, when you import Ruth, you get a guy who can pitch and hit great, and do either or both. Accuracy doesn't necessarily mean emulation of real life, like DMB or SOM, just that the players behave in a manner similar to their real-life counterparts. Realism, as I'm defining it, is something not available if you do real players, especially old imported historical players. It's the ability of the game to provide a more nuanced and realistic player. In other words, elements like loyalty and leadership ability, tendencies to be good at particular positions and bad at others that the player has never played. If you want the game to go in the direction of accuracy, it will be at the expense of fleshing out players in more detail, since there's really no way to import whether Nap Lajoie was loyal or a good leader or would have been a great left fielder from his available stats. You would, however, get very accurate depictions of real life players. If you want to go in the direction of realism, you may find that Mackey Sasser is a great leader in the clubhouse when you import him, and guys may have other ridiculous ratings simply because they don't have stats in these areas so the game would have to randomly assign them. However, a fictional career would produce much more detailed players who act like real major leaguers, even if not specific ones. If you had to choose one or the other as a path for the game to take, which one would you pick? This is just hypothetical stuff. I just think that the game is kind of at a crossroads in this matter. The more the game adds elements of realism, the more unhappy historical and real roster gamers seem to get about inaccurate ratings assigned to their players. But fictional gamers seem to love the additions of these elements. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-15-2003, 03:23 PM	#4
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	realism! there's a caveat which comes with accuracy...you may want the accurate, say, darryl strawberry, but you'll never get him, except as defined by his stats... your darryl strawberry will not have the fatal flaw which his real life counterpart had...because that data is not available for all players... so yeah, realism may come at a sacrifice for acuracy, but acuracy sacrifices acuracy too, because it ignores factors which we know to have played a part in a player's performance... __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

05-15-2003, 03:32 PM	#7
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	As a hard-core historical simmer, I'm really torn on this one. I think realism is a little better though. Let's face it, the statistical record is just incomplete on the old-time players. I'd rather have the game fill in the holes than be forcibly wedded to one version of history. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

05-15-2003, 03:37 PM	#8
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	Realism. Since I use 99% fictional, I just want something that "seems" like it could be real life baseball. I like "real" situations and "real" results with my fake teams and fake players __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

05-15-2003, 03:10 PM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Ugh. I'm torn. I want... both.

05-15-2003, 03:25 PM	#5
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	If I had to pick one or the other, I think I'd pick both.

05-15-2003, 03:40 PM	#9
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	The situation I have is that I hate fictional, or at least, I don't go fictional very often at all. So what I want is something real, but because I use real players I also need something accurate. So I like real situations and real results with my real teams and real players.

05-15-2003, 03:43 PM	#10
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,795	But what about idealism?? Sheesh, you guys always leave out the best option. EDIT: forgot the "". I'm learning I really mustn't forget it. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 05-15-2003 at 03:52 PM.

05-15-2003, 03:49 PM	#11
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,235	My vote is for realism. I used to play with historical or current major leaguers. For something different, I tried a fictional league and have never looked back. With that being said, I would obviously like the deepest "realistic" model possible. I understand the people who like to use real players and can definitely see where they are looking for accuracy.

05-15-2003, 04:04 PM	#12
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	I voted for realism. But ideally both. With full graphics. But that's another thread. __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

05-15-2003, 04:07 PM	#14
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	Isn't the editor enough?

05-15-2003, 05:11 PM	#16
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Why only 27 votes out of 192 visits ??? Either 165 folks don't care, or the 3rd choice (both) is missing....

05-15-2003, 05:53 PM	#20
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	I really do think, however, that the "both" option should be available. If it doesn't play a significant role, then fine, but the possibility that folks do, in fact, may want both, is just as important as the other two.