A Great Weekend of Boxing

[Jersey-Jim]

It was really a great weekend of Boxing. The Super-Six tournament continues to produce great drama and entertaining fights. I wonder if this concept is going to catch on, going forward? The Super Middleweight division seems to have just the right mix of personalities to make the tournament work.

This type of tournament would probably have difficulties working if you included some of the well-known pound-for-pound fighters because they'd probably price themselves right out of it. But so far so good for the Super Middleweight division.

Chris Arreola really lost a tough, important fight this weekend. With the division being the way it is, though, Heavyweights can be recycled a lot easier than fighters in other divisions. John Ruiz, Hasim Rachman and Oleg Maskaev come to mind immediately... and there are others as well.

Still, he drops a notch with this loss.

[IceTea]

I thought Froch won 116-113.

[jas80s]

I scored it 115-114 for Froch as well. Obviously, one can make a case for Kessler winning, but 116-112 and 117-111 for Kessler seemed pretty off to me. In one sense, Froch was right when he suggested that if a guy scored that fight 117-111 for Kessler, then what chance did he really have to win a decision?

I was very disappointed in Arreola. I think that was an imminently winnable fight for him and while injuring his hand was bad luck, he clearly came in out of shape. When he pressed the action he did well. He lost that fight on the scales, in my opinion. It's ok though, Adamek being in the picture is more interesting for the fans.

[javier_83]

i score it as a tie!!

[Jersey-Jim]

I just simmed this fight last week in my universe. Froch won a unanimous 15-round decision. Makes you wonder what would have happened in Saturday's fight had it been scheduled over that distance?

[Jersey-Jim]

Originally Posted by jas80s

I scored it 115-114 for Froch as well. Obviously, one can make a case for Kessler winning, but 116-112 and 117-111 for Kessler seemed pretty off to me. In one sense, Froch was right when he suggested that if a guy scored that fight 117-111 for Kessler, then what chance did he really have to win a decision?

I was very disappointed in Arreola. I think that was an imminently winnable fight for him and while injuring his hand was bad luck, he clearly came in out of shape. When he pressed the action he did well. He lost that fight on the scales, in my opinion. It's ok though, Adamek being in the picture is more interesting for the fans.

I think you're right about the scales. If he had the energy to push a little harder and let his hands go a little more, there may have been a different outcome. But this is boxing and would have, should have and could have won't buy even buy you a cheap cup of coffee.

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

I just simmed this fight last week in my universe. Froch won a unanimous 15-round decision. Makes you wonder what would have happened in Saturday's fight had it been scheduled over that distance?

Jim, I assume you used the 9 rated Froch & what was the rating of the Kessler you used?

Froch went after the WBC champ in my uni (Hearns) & Tommy was able to retain his title via a 15MD. Carl out punched Hearns but Froch was also dropped twice during the fight.

[jas80s]

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

I think you're right about the scales. If he had the energy to push a little harder and let his hands go a little more, there may have been a different outcome. But this is boxing and would have, should have and could have won't buy even buy you a cheap cup of coffee.

Agree 100 percent, Jim....Unlike when he fought Vitali where I think he just didn't have the skills to win this time he truly has nobody to blame but himself. Of course, it's not a mortal lock that he would have won even if he came in ten pounds lighter, but it certainly would have helped.

Personally, I think Arreola may retire soon. The loss to Klitschko didn't seem to ignite any real fire in him to change anything and in the wake of the loss to Adamek he frankly didn't seem that crushed. I think the desire to give it everything he has is just not there, especially now.....total speculation on my part. He may keep fighting, but it will be just for the money for as long as he can get it (which is fine, btw..it's not like I'm judging that). I just can't see him making much of an impact at the top of the division at this point.

[Jersey-Jim]

Originally Posted by hamed2

Jim, I assume you used the 9 rated Froch & what was the rating of the Kessler you used?

Froch went after the WBC champ in my uni (Hearns) & Tommy was able to retain his title via a 15MD. Carl out punched Hearns but Froch was also dropped twice during the fight.

I just checked to make sure...
I have Froch at a 9 and Kessler at a 10. During the fight, Froch's chin is what made the difference. During the championship rounds, he had more left in the tank than Kessler.

Froch is very tough, I'll give him that. He recovers well when hurt and is very durable. With his style - he needs to be!

[Jersey-Jim]

Originally Posted by jas80s

Agree 100 percent, Jim....Unlike when he fought Vitali where I think he just didn't have the skills to win this time he truly has nobody to blame but himself. Of course, it's not a mortal lock that he would have won even if he came in ten pounds lighter, but it certainly would have helped.

Personally, I think Arreola may retire soon. The loss to Klitschko didn't seem to ignite any real fire in him to change anything and in the wake of the loss to Adamek he frankly didn't seem that crushed. I think the desire to give it everything he has is just not there, especially now.....total speculation on my part. He may keep fighting, but it will be just for the money for as long as he can get it (which is fine, btw..it's not like I'm judging that). I just can't see him making much of an impact at the top of the division at this point.

I don't know if it's so much that these guys are young and stupid or what exactly it is. How many fighters can you name in the last 20 years who had all the tools and just never put it together? More than you can count. Where else can these guys make the kind of money they're making in the ring? Basically, you're sacrificing a decade of your life to be set the rest of your life.

I guess the pull of wine, women, song (& food) are just too much for some people. If fighters like Mayweather and Pacquiao can juggle their fame and fortune while remaining in great condition - anyone should be able to. Maybe these guys are just going as far as their natural talent takes them and not pushing any further.

Wilfred Benitez was an example of a guy who hardly ever trained. His natural talent took him far. Evander Holyfield is a good example of the opposite side of the spectrum. He lived in the gym for years and took his talent beyond what most people thought possible.

[Syd Thrift]

My hope is that Arreola takes this loss and realizes that in order to outlast his opponent for 12 rounds he's going to need to get back into shape. I certainly don't expect this to happen, and in fact I thought that the best chance was after the Klitschko fight. Still, I thought he was actually doing pretty well in the mid rounds and might have caught up to Adamek had he not hurt his bicep. He's still a hilarious after the fight interview and is the closest thing to this generation's Two Ton Tony Galento.

Speaking of Galento, wiki has hilariously stupid infos:

Originally Posted by wikis

Nicknamed "Two Ton" for his reasoning to his manager for being nearly late to one of his fights: "I had two tons of ice to deliver on my way here".

Um, no. He was nicknamed Two Ton because he was a fat ass. Kiki Cuyler wasn't so nicknamed because it was a family name, he was nicknamed that becuase he stuttered. Why do people need to euphemize stuff like this?

Anyway, the Super Six almost makes me want to subscribe to Showtime. Then again, I hate Karl Froch's stupid butt.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Um, no. He was nicknamed Two Ton because he was a fat ass. Kiki Cuyler wasn't so nicknamed because it was a family name, he was nicknamed that becuase he stuttered. Why do people need to euphemize stuff like this?

Anyway, the Super Six almost makes me want to subscribe to Showtime. Then again, I hate Karl Froch's stupid butt.

Syd
I wasn't aware of Cuyler being a stutterer. My dad, who never tired of telling me stories about ball players had told me he got the nickname because he shouted out the first syllable of his name twice when calling for fly balls.

[btown32]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Anyway, the Super Six almost makes me want to subscribe to Showtime. Then again, I hate Karl Froch's stupid butt.

Hey Syd, you wouldn't really be subscribing for Froch, but rather Froch's girlfriend. Boy, Showtime gives her free advertising almost every round, not to mention pre and post fight angles. She is quite a looker though!

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by bear

Syd
I wasn't aware of Cuyler being a stutterer. My dad, who never tired of telling me stories about ball players had told me he got the nickname because he shouted out the first syllable of his name twice when calling for fly balls.

The 20s and 30s were some really mean times for nicknames by today's standards. Goose Goslin looks a lot like a goose if you ever find his pictures. Guys with glasses, to the extent they were allowed to play, were almost always called "Specs". Fatty Fothergill and Fat Freddie Fitzsimmons also came from that era. I think Frenchy Bordagaray was so termed due to his flamboyantly large mustache (in an era where players were generally not allowed to wear them in MLB; Bordagaray was an exception because he starred in the PCL first). Oh yeah, and Joe Medwick was nicknamed Ducky-Wucky because, well, a fan called him that and the sportswriters thought it was funny.

[Cap]

Actually, I had heard that story about Galento's nickname a long time ago. He did haul ice early in his career when most folks had an icebox in the kitchen.

Cap

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

I just checked to make sure...
I have Froch at a 9 and Kessler at a 10. During the fight, Froch's chin is what made the difference. During the championship rounds, he had more left in the tank than Kessler.

Froch is very tough, I'll give him that. He recovers well when hurt and is very durable. With his style - he needs to be!

Yeah he has a 1 KDR 1 as I recall & I was surprised he was the one getting decked because Hearns has a 3 KDR 1 @ 168.

[Jersey-Jim]

Originally Posted by Cap

Actually, I had heard that story about Galento's nickname a long time ago. He did haul ice early in his career when most folks had an icebox in the kitchen.

Cap

Tony was given the nickname because of that incident. But truth be told, you didn't tell Tony he was a "fat man." The "Two-Ton" nickname referenced his weight more than it did the ice and thus... it stuck. To be safe, though, when he was living - you could get away with it by referring to that particular incident.

It's like Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegal. You didn't call him "Bugsy" to his face.

One last thing about Tony, when I got to see him in his later years (the early 70's) his gut and fat were gone. But he was still huge. His forearm bones looked more like thigh bones.

Joe Louis said that no one ever hurt him more in his career with a punch than Tony Galento did. Not even Rocky Marciano.

There's a difference between getting knocked down and not being able to beat the count and being hurt by a punch. Sometimes you can feel a single punch for hours!

[Jersey-Jim]

Originally Posted by hamed2

Yeah he has a 1 KDR 1 as I recall & I was surprised he was the one getting decked because Hearns has a 3 KDR 1 @ 168.

You know what, even all these years later, I still think of a 1 like people new to the game think of a 0 when it comes to the chin. There's a big enough difference between a 2 and a 3 it seems... but a 1 and a 0 is the difference between "very good" and "granite!"

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

You know what, even all these years later, I still think of a 1 like people new to the game think of a 0 when it comes to the chin. There's a big enough difference between a 2 and a 3 it seems... but a 1 and a 0 is the difference between "very good" and "granite!"

True, aside from Taylor dropping him, I think that's the only time Carl has ever hit the deck so far in his career.

[Cap]

Finally got to see the Tommy Adamek - Chris "Triple Cheeseburger" Arreola fight. Chris looked like he busted his maulie in the fifth and hurt it badly again in the tenth, but his real problem was coming in looking like he trained by watching TV and drinking beer. Hell, Tony Galento was a body-beautiful compared to that version of Arreola. Sad thing for Chris is that years from now he's going to look back and wonder how he could be so stupid to throw his career away. I hope he's at least alive and out of jail to see that.

Three cheers for Adamek. He came ready for war. Still, I couldn't help thinking that Joe Louis would have stopped both guys on the same night.

Cap