Injury Frequency?

[Kane182]

2009 New York Mets...At one point 17 of their 25 opening day players were on the DL.

[mking55]

I started out with Injuries set to "Normal" and there was nothing normal about it. Players were dropping like flies. It verged on the ridiculous.

So I went to low and it improved. I still think it's a little too high and I'm tempted to go for very low.

I get a bunch in spring training, and then as the season winds down they start getting injured just in time to miss the World Series.

I honestly don't know what the ML average is but I started a historical league in 1939. The only way you were injured back then was if you were dying (Lou Gehrig and he still tried to play), or you had bones sticking out of your body that might interfere with your pitching or your swing. That's it. Pete Reiser who never met an outfield wall he didn't like, had his career ruined because he came back too soon after hitting the wall literally one too many times.

So injuries are high. I think they should be balanced against a study of real life injury rate and DL time. I also think they should be era dependant. In the 30's and 40's and 50's, normal means play or die. In the 90's, a hangnail, depression, or cutting yourself with a kitchen knife gets you on the DL.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by mking55

So injuries are high. I think they should be balanced against a study of real life injury rate and DL time.

They are. The 'high' setting is based on an extensive study of real life injury data. Far more players are injured in real life modern day baseball than most people might expect. The high setting is, however, realistic for contemporary baseball; it may not be at all appropriate for historical leagues. It's also a matter of preference; many users won't want a realistic number of injuries even in a modern-day league, and can choose a lower setting if they prefer.

[DCG12]

Originally Posted by mking55

I started out with Injuries set to "Normal" and there was nothing normal about it. Players were dropping like flies. It verged on the ridiculous.

So I went to low and it improved. I still think it's a little too high and I'm tempted to go for very low.

I get a bunch in spring training, and then as the season winds down they start getting injured just in time to miss the World Series.

I honestly don't know what the ML average is but I started a historical league in 1939. The only way you were injured back then was if you were dying (Lou Gehrig and he still tried to play), or you had bones sticking out of your body that might interfere with your pitching or your swing. That's it. Pete Reiser who never met an outfield wall he didn't like, had his career ruined because he came back too soon after hitting the wall literally one too many times.

So injuries are high. I think they should be balanced against a study of real life injury rate and DL time. I also think they should be era dependant. In the 30's and 40's and 50's, normal means play or die. In the 90's, a hangnail, depression, or cutting yourself with a kitchen knife gets you on the DL.

Injury log is right that people grossly underestimate the amount of injuries in real life major league baseball and it has been discussed to death in last years version when it changed for the first time. I have seen injury logs data and it is convincing so I won't beat that horse anymore.

With that said he is also right that it is based on modern baseball so playing in 1939 especially in OOTP where because you are using the Lahman database you don't have 150 players in the minors you need to turn it down to very low or low.

Someone mentioned a while back that they like to start on very low until a few years (and drafts) have gone by and they have more players in the minors or reserve roster to fill injuries then turn it to low.

[CharlieHustle6.12]

I've looked at those logs as well. My concern was with injuries that were 2 weeks and over and not just all injuries.

[JamesN]

So high is generally regarded as the most realistic setting for a 2010 MLB league?

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by JamesN

So high is generally regarded as the most realistic setting for a 2010 MLB league?

Unfortunately, yes.

[mking55]

Originally Posted by injury log

They are. The 'high' setting is based on an extensive study of real life injury data. Far more players are injured in real life modern day baseball than most people might expect. The high setting is, however, realistic for contemporary baseball; it may not be at all appropriate for historical leagues. It's also a matter of preference; many users won't want a realistic number of injuries even in a modern-day league, and can choose a lower setting if they prefer.

Very interesting. I admit I had no idea. I know players get injured for the some pretty inane reasons but if that's life, then the game should reflect that.

As far as era's go, the frequency should ideally change based on era.

But the workaround (and it's not a bad one except for my feeble memory) is to use the settings based on the era you're playing. Right now I should use "very low". When I get to the 60's, low. If I bother with the 80's and up, then normal. Not perfect but perfectly liveable.

Thanks.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by knockahoma

It's all what you're comfortable with. Until Orange had pointed out the DL rules of the 70s, I lived with the 6,7,8 guys at a time on the DL. But, with the old rule that allowed for only 3 at a time on the DL (although I guess a supplemental DL list existed), I keep the injuries on very low.

Here's a description of the basic DL rules as they have existed; note that certain technicalities are excluded.

Before 1941: No disabled lists at all.
1941: 'Regular' DL created. Minimum length of stay: 60 days. Player limit: 2
1949: 'Regular" DL minimum stay shortened to 30 days.
1960: 'Emergency' DL created. Minimum length of stay: 60 days. Player limit: none.
1966: 'Regular' DL minimum stay shortened to 15 days.
1967: 'Regular' DL minimum stay lengthened to 21 days.
1971: 'Supplemental' DL created. Minimum length of stay: 15 days. Player limit: 1 non-pitcher.
1973: 'Regular" DL player limit raised to 3.
1981: 'Special' DL created. Could only be used when 'Regular' and 'Supplemental' DL were full. Minimum length of stay: 21 days. Player limit: 1.
1983: 'Special' DL minimum stay lengthened to 30 days.
1984: 'Supplemental' DL player limit raised to 2 (but only one of which could be a pitcher).
1990: 'Supplemental' and 'Special' DLs eliminated. 'Regular" DL minimum stay shortened to 15 days, with no player limit. 'Emergency' DL unchanged.

Originally Posted by mking55

I get a bunch in spring training, and then as the season winds down they start getting injured just in time to miss the World Series.

In terms of the number of players on the DL at the start of the regular season, below is such a list, along with the average number of players per team on the DL as of opening day. These figures are taken from the reports of the opening day average salary per player, which counts both players on the 25-man active roster and on the DL (primarily) as of opening day.

Year   DL     Avg
-----------------
1987   39   1.500
1988   44   1.692
1989   56   2.154
           
1991   58   2.231
1992   69   2.654
1993   68   2.429
1994   46   1.643
          
1998   91   3.033
           
2000   90   3.000
2001  104   3.467
2002   99   3.300
2003   77   2.567
2004   80   2.667
2005   79   2.633
2006   63   2.100
2007   99   3.300
2008  105   3.500
2009   67   2.233
2010   78   2.600

There is a lot of variety from year to year, but the average for the 2000-2010 period was 2.85 players per team on the 15-day or 60-day DL as of opening day.

Originally Posted by mking55

I think they should be balanced against a study of real life injury rate and DL time. I also think they should be era dependant. In the 30's and 40's and 50's, normal means play or die.

Unfortunately, historical injury data doesn't appear to exist, or at least, it's not easily available publicly.

One could perhaps make some rough estimation of the degree to which injuries affected the rosters of teams by looking at the average number of players which appeared on a major league club's roster during the season. Granted, some of those numbers will be due to normal player movement, to different practices towards roster management, as well as roster rule changes, but at least part of it will be due to injuries.

Below is a chart showing the average number of players to appear on a major league club's active roster during a season, covering 1871-2008. In 2008, for example, the average was 46.13 players, with the Chicago White Sox using the fewest (39) while San Diego used the most (59). If anyone has detailed injury data for 2008, please take a look at the White Sox and Padres to see how their injury situations compare to their total player usage.
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