If only ootpbb could look like mogul - Page 3

Antonin · 04-16-2010, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei:

Horrible, awful, hideous idea.

For once, I agree utterly and completely with MD.

Again--and I say this every time one of these discussions come up--I like text-based sports sims. I want OOTP to remain a text-based baseball management sim for serious baseball fans. It is not perfect, but I want each version to become a better text-based baseball management sim.

Obviously, judging from the excitement each new version of OOTP generates each year, there is a market for serious, highly customizable text-based baseball management sims. I think there are people out in gameland who are tired of shallow arcade baseball games and would embrace OOTP if only they knew about it.

I played arcade baseball games during the 1990s until stumbling upon Season Ticket Baseball in the early 2000s. I was absolutely stunned at how much more complete my baseball gaming experience became after discovering STB.

This is of course Markus' franchise and he can take it in any direction he chooses. If he wants to go the graphics-intensive route, OK. At that point I will say good luck to Markus and goodbye to OOTP because that kind of game just is not my cup of tea.

Baseball is not soccer. What works for FM is not necessarily appropriate for OOTP. And anyway, take a look at the scores of angry complaints that cover the SI boards every time they introduce a new version of their game. Compare that to what buyers of this game say about OOTP each time a new version is released.

With all due respect to SI [and I have purchased several versions of FM over the years], I think OOTP Developments is doing just fine and should not seek to pattern itself after them in any way.

I wish people who think game A should try to become more like game B would just play game B.

Hooray Saturday · 04-17-2010, 12:42 AM

Markus said a long time ago... maybe it was around OOTP5.... that eventually he wanted to have a 3D graphics engine to represent the actual game action.

now if this is an option.... something you can turn off and completely ignore and play the game the way you've always played and enjoyed.... then why would you have any problem if it was an option for those that DO want to have a nice graphical representation of what's happening on the field??

put the brains of OOTP with the looks of the old FPS baseball game, and you'd have perfection, in my book. and for those that want nothing to do with it?? turn that option off.

Charlie Hough · 04-17-2010, 02:27 PM

To all of those railing about the 3D graphics and how you want to keep OOTP a text sim: you're not the ones that are invested in the production and sale of this product as a business enterprise. You're not the ones that need to find opportunities to grow sales. We all have to set aside our personal preferences if we want to take a look at the business case of growing OOTP Developments.

When you're running a business and want to grow beyond your present level of success, you have to analyze what the market demands and not what a smaller niche market prefers. OOTP Developments has already captured a large portion of the niche market, which is the text baseball sim community. Markus is now trying to introduce features that will capture more of that niche market, but soon OOTP will be dealing with the law of diminsihing returns. When you've already captured a sizable share of a market, it's going to get harder and harder as you get closer to 100% market share.

The much larger market where growth is really possible is the one where game developers are selling tens of thousands of copies more than OOTP. And that's the market that involves 3D graphics. This is not to say that OOTP should be a console game. It doesn't have to be. But to capture the interest and the discretionary dollars of those who are currently buying those console and PC-based baseball games with 3D graphics, OOTP has to add graphics of its own. That's where the bulk of the baseball gaming market remains. OOTP offers a lot of features that those other games cannot provide, but the folks who play those games have often never used a text sim, and there are generational differences with that audience. It demands 3D graphics. It's a fundamental element of any game for that audience.

Remember: Strat-O-Matic and APBA were originally board games. In order to expand their market share, they had to develop computer versions of their games. This is no different than OOTP having to consider 3D graphics in order to expand beyond its niche and gain more sales and exposure.

I've already explained how this could be done with virtually no investment in dollars. It can be done through cooperative internships with a university computer design program. Virtually any student that is taking an undergraduate or graduate degree in this field must take on a major project as part of graduation requirements. Developing 3D graphics for OOTP would be a perfect project to satisfy the requirements. And it doesn't have to be just one student. Students can work together in groups on major projects as well.

Anyway, that is all I am going to say about this for now. Those who are objecting to 3D graphics in OOTP need to start thinking in business terms and not solely according to their personal preferences. And I'm no different. I'm primarily a historical player of OOTP, but I realize that the vast majority of the game's sales are because of its fictional and current year MLB features. So I have to accept that this is where the emphasis has to remain. Historical features will always have to take a back seat to the bread and butter of OOTP.

Antonin · 04-17-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

To all of those railing about the 3D graphics and how you want to keep OOTP a text sim: you're not the ones that are invested in the production and sale of this product as a business enterprise. You're not the ones that need to find opportunities to grow sales. We all have to set aside our personal preferences if we want to take a look at the business case of growing OOTP Developments...

...When you're running a business and want to grow beyond your present level of success, you have to analyze what the market demands and not what a smaller niche market prefers...

Anyway, that is all I am going to say about this for now. Those who are objecting to 3D graphics in OOTP need to start thinking in business terms and not solely according to their personal preferences. And I'm no different.

You make good points, but it's up to Markus to decide what his market is, what that market is demanding, what he intends to do about it.

I disagree that those of us who do not want 3D graphics need to start thinking in business terms and not solely according to their personal preferences.

Markus is the one who should be thinking in business terms, ie, what his market is and what he wants it to be. He will have to decide whether it's acceptable to dominate what some people think is a niche market or necessary to try to compete against companies with vastly larger development budgets.

When I decide how to spend my money, I *must* think solely in terms of my personal preferences. Why pay for something I do not want? I don't have money to throw away. The only thing I can do is not pay my hard-earned disposable income for something that does not meet my entertainment needs.

Others may decide that 3D graphics are what they want. Who knows, perhaps more customers will come than will depart. But maybe not.

I don't accept it as a given that people are going to turn away from a deep, text-based, system-friendly management sim to embrace a more graphics-intensive, eye-grabbing game that more closely resembles arcade baseball games. I left graphics-oriented baseball years ago when I discovered OOTP and would never spend any of my time playing graphics-oriented baseball games today.

How many people are leaving OOTP and playing some of the graphics-oriented games instead?

How many people are perfectly content playing OOTP as well as their favorite graphics-oriented game?

I just spent about 15 minutes on a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon here in Cleveland staring at statistics and sipping coffee, comparing trade offers for my surplus shortstop. I wound up trading for a 28-year-old SP that, according to the scouting report, is cool on the mound and someone everybody in the clubhouse looks up to. And, oh yeah, he is signed for 2 years. I'm excited about getting him, especially since my current number 5 starter just got shelled by the Havana Tigres and does not look like he belongs in the majors.

With respect to you, Charlie, and your very well thought out post, this is what I buy and play sports management sims for. I just have no interest in seeing players running around on the field, or a pitcher's windup, or a runner rounding the bases. Even ball flight is something I almost never use. Give me a better pitching model, more realistic player development, better trading AI, etc.

darkcloud4579 · 04-17-2010, 06:15 PM

It would be a disaster.

rudel.dietrich · 04-17-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

That's what they said about Championship Manager and Football Manager until the 2D match engine was developed and soon after the 3D engine was released. The result was a massive revolution for the series, a lot of thrilled customers, and an easier ability to understand the action and develop more effective strategies ... just like real life.

Sports Interactive has almost a dozen full time artists. That is not counting the programmers, marketing, animators. research staff and sound.
Sports Interactive is not a small time gaming outfit anymore. They have big sales and big time money coming in and have a big staff to work on their games.
Markus is a single person with a handful of part time unprofessional staff helping him. No offense to Andreas but I think he has a actual job and does the OOTP stuff as a side job/hobby. Markus I think is the only one who works on the game as a full time job.
Simply put, there is no one there to put graphics into the game. Not even one full time artist is employed.

And lets also be realistic here. Mogul may have a graphical edge but the feature set is minuscule compared to OOTP and the actual baseball engine years behind.

eMLBCommish · 04-17-2010, 09:39 PM

If you want graphics, go play MLB: The Show. I'm sure a majority of us are content with the game presented as is, and the minor improvements done on the UI front.

FaceGen's import feature is quite an impressive graphical improvement, IMO.

Charlie Hough · 04-17-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Sports Interactive has almost a dozen full time artists. That is not counting the programmers, marketing, animators. research staff and sound.

This is the same argument over and over and over and over again.

I will repeat this for the THIRD TIME. Markus can simply create an arrangement with a university computer design program to set up multiple UNPAID internships and have a team of students become his graphic design department.

Other game developers have done this and it has worked. All at ZERO COST.

eMLBCommish · 04-17-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

This is the same argument over and over and over and over again.

I will repeat this for the THIRD TIME. Markus can simply create an arrangement with a university computer design program to set up multiple UNPAID internships and have a team of students become his graphic design department.

Other game developers have done this and it has worked. All at ZERO COST.

Spoken like a person who's never run a business and run into domestic and international laws on unpaid internships, branding, rights, and corporate copyright protection.

There is nothing "simple" in business, as you might suggest.

CD1083 · 04-17-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

If you want graphics, go play MLB: The Show

So are you saying that MLB:The Show is essentially the same as OOTP with graphics?

golander40 · 04-17-2010, 10:38 PM

What I don't understand,is the attitude that states,more graphics I quit !,
I'm pretty much on record in favor of more animation (and I'm 70yrs old).
I LOVE OOTP,its much more than I could ever have dreamed of as a kid (I started with APBA in the 50's) I play only historical (Big surprise there

),but I sure don't begrudge fictional or current players.If animation is an option (ability to turn it off) and the other features are still there,Why in the world would you be upset,and threaten to quit ??
I know,I know the old argument,it will take away from development time for Your favorite things,but thats not a given.
In my mind more Animation = More Immersion.
Thanks For Your Time
Gil The Ancient One.
P.s. Dont get the wrong idea as a kid I was one of those,keeping my leagues Stats in an old loose leaf Notebook (APBA)

eMLBCommish · 04-17-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

So are you saying that MLB:The Show is essentially the same as OOTP with graphics?

If I was saying that, I'd have said "You don't need OOTP! MLB: The Show is OOTP with graphics!"

I don't think I said that, though...did I?

People...

CD1083 · 04-17-2010, 11:37 PM

Yeah, but your smarky attitude says otherwise.

There is a large portion of people on the board who would enjoy seeing OOTP with visuals.
The esoteric comments like yours are the ones that will eventually put OOTP off the maps.

How much more is left to add to the game? How many more versions are left?
Simply brushing peoples desire for something as not important because it is not of interest to you is arrogant and selfish.

Not for me, not for the rest of the board, but for Markus. If he doesn't want to add 3D animation or more visuals that is for him to decide. Those on here who seem to declare so loudly that they will refuse to purchase another version of the game will also be most likely to do so anyway when they have the product in hands that satisfies their need. The game is still not perfect but unless you plan on handing over 40 dollars a year for the next 10 years, something new will happen with or without you. Either Markus takes something that he has and open it up to a larger audience or someone else will.

Adapt or perish, now as ever, is Nature's inexorable imperative.

eMLBCommish · 04-17-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

Yeah, but your smarky attitude says otherwise.

As a 9 year veteran since OOTP 3, I think I said exactly what I said. It is you who put words in my mouth. The phrase "Pot....Kettle...." are coming to mind.

Now, for the rest of your actually useful post:

I disagree, and I've been around long enough to know it's still 3 out of 4 prefer the steak (the engine) over the sizzle (graphics).

Name me one human being who is not arrogant and selfish in some way, shape or form. I have no real desire to see OOTP become a button mashing, sacrifice the engine for gaudiness to appease the younger generation style game people beg for.

Note: I did NOT get into the group of people who will huff and puff and not buy the game if it goes graphical...but I certainly am not snake charmed by promises of graphical improvements. As noted in a different post, I think the Facegen Picture Import feature is quite a nice improvement, IMO.

And for the record: I am of the belief that OOTP is best for the niche it covers. When I want prettiness, I go downstairs, and I play MLB '09: The Show. The game doesn't call 90% of the players by the correct name (now in 2020), there are several areas I dispute scoring, and the logic of the game play/managerial decision making makes sense to me about 60% of the time.

So, in short: When I want to have eye candy, I play The Show with its faults. But I spend far more time on my soon to be 10 RL year old online league, which happens to use OOTP.

CD1083 · 04-17-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

As a 9 year veteran since OOTP 3, I think I said exactly what I said. It is you who put words in my mouth. The phrase "Pot....Kettle...." are coming to mind.

Yeah, I can at least admit I have attitude. I'm not sure what your tenure has to do with anything, building cred? I've also been playing since 3, do I have your respect now?

You may not have lumped yourself into the group who state they will not purchase the game but you joined a conversation where one side is for it and other side is against it and it just so happens the vocal side of those against have set the line at refusing to purchase another version.

Quote:

I have no real desire to see OOTP become a button mashing, sacrifice the engine for gaudiness to appease the younger generation style game people beg for.

maybe you misunderstand what people are asking for. I also do not want any action to be dictated by the player. I am on the simple side of adding visuals nothing more. Imagine the play by play now, but add in 3D rendered animation. That is it. I'm not sure anything is asking for MLB: The Show with a better franchise mode. If they are, thats another side all together.

Elysian Fields · 04-18-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonin

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei:

Horrible, awful, hideous idea.

For once, I agree utterly and completely with MD.

Again--and I say this every time one of these discussions come up--I like text-based sports sims. I want OOTP to remain a text-based baseball management sim for serious baseball fans. It is not perfect, but I want each version to become a better text-based baseball management sim.

Obviously, judging from the excitement each new version of OOTP generates each year, there is a market for serious, highly customizable text-based baseball management sims. I think there are people out in gameland who are tired of shallow arcade baseball games and would embrace OOTP if only they knew about it.

I played arcade baseball games during the 1990s until stumbling upon Season Ticket Baseball in the early 2000s. I was absolutely stunned at how much more complete my baseball gaming experience became after discovering STB.

This is of course Markus' franchise and he can take it in any direction he chooses. If he wants to go the graphics-intensive route, OK. At that point I will say good luck to Markus and goodbye to OOTP because that kind of game just is not my cup of tea.

Baseball is not soccer. What works for FM is not necessarily appropriate for OOTP. And anyway, take a look at the scores of angry complaints that cover the SI boards every time they introduce a new version of their game. Compare that to what buyers of this game say about OOTP each time a new version is released.

With all due respect to SI [and I have purchased several versions of FM over the years], I think OOTP Developments is doing just fine and should not seek to pattern itself after them in any way.

I wish people who think game A should try to become more like game B would just play game B.

I'm a Football Manager fanatic. It is a ridiculously successful game that gets better annually. People complain of course, because it is not perfect... but SI listens. Nothing like it is comparable really as far as depth of simulation and game success. Out of the Park being in FM like can therefore only be a good thing.

SoxFan4Life · 04-18-2010, 01:02 AM

Maybe it is just because I started playing OOTP a couple of days ago, but I find it to be the most immersive sports game I play. And this is including any console game I own. Sure I love my Madden NFL 10 and the graphics, with OOTP I am getting a whole different type of game but it is top notch in what it presents. Besides, if you want graphics why are you even playing OOTP?

f.montoya · 04-18-2010, 09:06 AM

OOTP is like Fantasy Baseball on steroids...(oops! bad choice of words

). The point being, fantasy baseball has no graphics yet millions of statheads play it competitively every year. OOTP only seems like a niche game mostly due to lack of exposure. I'm willing to bet that if fantasy players knew this was an option and that Winter is non-existent in OOTP, they would flock to this game by the 10's of thousands. I personally am a 'fantasy baseball to OOTP' convert as I found OOTP played out games, standings and stats much more compelling than the stat compilation competition found in fantasy leagues. I ran the Asahi league for several years as a fantasy league and then scrapped the fantasy crap for OOTP back in 2004(for which my league became the Asahi2 league). IMO, OOTP needs graphics just about as much as fantasy leagues need graphics.

As far as sounds, I wouldn't mind a bit of an ambiance tune here and there while roaming the interface and pre-game pages as long as it didn't go overboard and become annoying, but all in all, I'm very happy with my pages full of numbers.

RchW · 04-18-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f.montoya

OOTP is like Fantasy Baseball on steroids...(oops! bad choice of words ). The point being, fantasy baseball has no graphics yet millions of statheads play it competitively every year. OOTP only seems like a niche game mostly due to lack of exposure. I'm willing to bet that if fantasy players knew this was an option and that Winter is non-existent in OOTP, they would flock to this game by the 10's of thousands.

Actually this (fantasy baseball) discussion was had recently and it has been discussed several times before. Trying not to put words in the mouths of others, it seems that the consensus is that "pure fantasy" players are not interested. I have shown this game to numerous committed fantasy players and almost to a person they have said "meh". I don't get it at all.

See this thread

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2934295

ravinhood · 04-18-2010, 10:03 PM

You all talk about what you THINK is best but you totally missed the POINT of this thread. It's not about WHAT ALREADY IS it's about MORE INCOME from ADDING something that ISN'T. You all talk about blah blah blah need more money don't have this don't have that. Well if he ADDED graphics HE'd GET MORE MONEY.

You think the MOGUL series is still in business because it doesn't make any money? hahaha you all are pretty silly. I'm just saying OOTPBB could make a LOT MORE MONEY if they would add the graphics of MOGUL.

But, that's fine I'll continue to feed my money into MOGUL and you have have your silly text sim and PRETEND to see the game unfold. lmao

Oh and BTW the TRADE AI is MUCH IMPROVED.

04-16-2010, 07:14 PM	#41
Antonin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,540	Originally Posted by Malleus Dei: Horrible, awful, hideous idea. For once, I agree utterly and completely with MD. Again--and I say this every time one of these discussions come up--I like text-based sports sims. I want OOTP to remain a text-based baseball management sim for serious baseball fans. It is not perfect, but I want each version to become a better text-based baseball management sim. Obviously, judging from the excitement each new version of OOTP generates each year, there is a market for serious, highly customizable text-based baseball management sims. I think there are people out in gameland who are tired of shallow arcade baseball games and would embrace OOTP if only they knew about it. I played arcade baseball games during the 1990s until stumbling upon Season Ticket Baseball in the early 2000s. I was absolutely stunned at how much more complete my baseball gaming experience became after discovering STB. This is of course Markus' franchise and he can take it in any direction he chooses. If he wants to go the graphics-intensive route, OK. At that point I will say good luck to Markus and goodbye to OOTP because that kind of game just is not my cup of tea. Baseball is not soccer. What works for FM is not necessarily appropriate for OOTP. And anyway, take a look at the scores of angry complaints that cover the SI boards every time they introduce a new version of their game. Compare that to what buyers of this game say about OOTP each time a new version is released. With all due respect to SI [and I have purchased several versions of FM over the years], I think OOTP Developments is doing just fine and should not seek to pattern itself after them in any way. I wish people who think game A should try to become more like game B would just play game B. __________________ "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistols), San Francisco, 14 January 1978

04-17-2010, 02:27 PM	#43
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,642	To all of those railing about the 3D graphics and how you want to keep OOTP a text sim: you're not the ones that are invested in the production and sale of this product as a business enterprise. You're not the ones that need to find opportunities to grow sales. We all have to set aside our personal preferences if we want to take a look at the business case of growing OOTP Developments. When you're running a business and want to grow beyond your present level of success, you have to analyze what the market demands and not what a smaller niche market prefers. OOTP Developments has already captured a large portion of the niche market, which is the text baseball sim community. Markus is now trying to introduce features that will capture more of that niche market, but soon OOTP will be dealing with the law of diminsihing returns. When you've already captured a sizable share of a market, it's going to get harder and harder as you get closer to 100% market share. The much larger market where growth is really possible is the one where game developers are selling tens of thousands of copies more than OOTP. And that's the market that involves 3D graphics. This is not to say that OOTP should be a console game. It doesn't have to be. But to capture the interest and the discretionary dollars of those who are currently buying those console and PC-based baseball games with 3D graphics, OOTP has to add graphics of its own. That's where the bulk of the baseball gaming market remains. OOTP offers a lot of features that those other games cannot provide, but the folks who play those games have often never used a text sim, and there are generational differences with that audience. It demands 3D graphics. It's a fundamental element of any game for that audience. Remember: Strat-O-Matic and APBA were originally board games. In order to expand their market share, they had to develop computer versions of their games. This is no different than OOTP having to consider 3D graphics in order to expand beyond its niche and gain more sales and exposure. I've already explained how this could be done with virtually no investment in dollars. It can be done through cooperative internships with a university computer design program. Virtually any student that is taking an undergraduate or graduate degree in this field must take on a major project as part of graduation requirements. Developing 3D graphics for OOTP would be a perfect project to satisfy the requirements. And it doesn't have to be just one student. Students can work together in groups on major projects as well. Anyway, that is all I am going to say about this for now. Those who are objecting to 3D graphics in OOTP need to start thinking in business terms and not solely according to their personal preferences. And I'm no different. I'm primarily a historical player of OOTP, but I realize that the vast majority of the game's sales are because of its fictional and current year MLB features. So I have to accept that this is where the emphasis has to remain. Historical features will always have to take a back seat to the bread and butter of OOTP. Last edited by Charlie Hough; 04-17-2010 at 02:29 PM.

04-17-2010, 06:15 PM	#45
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,709	It would be a disaster. __________________ ------ My Mods OOTP Advanced Stats & DFS Suite Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

04-17-2010, 09:39 PM	#47
eMLBCommish All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 677	If you want graphics, go play MLB: The Show. I'm sure a majority of us are content with the game presented as is, and the minor improvements done on the UI front. FaceGen's import feature is quite an impressive graphical improvement, IMO. __________________ The Fluffy Kitty Ninjas Show - Home of the eMLB Universe! www.twitch.tv/FKNCommishLB The Man Behind eMLB - https://atl-02.statsplus.net/emlb/re..._150_home.html Proud OOTP Affiliate Streamer Proud Twitch Partner (Partnered 3/15/22)

04-17-2010, 10:38 PM	#51
golander40 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 325	What I do not understand. What I don't understand,is the attitude that states,more graphics I quit !, I'm pretty much on record in favor of more animation (and I'm 70yrs old). I LOVE OOTP,its much more than I could ever have dreamed of as a kid (I started with APBA in the 50's) I play only historical (Big surprise there),but I sure don't begrudge fictional or current players.If animation is an option (ability to turn it off) and the other features are still there,Why in the world would you be upset,and threaten to quit ?? I know,I know the old argument,it will take away from development time for Your favorite things,but thats not a given. In my mind more Animation = More Immersion. Thanks For Your Time Gil The Ancient One. P.s. Dont get the wrong idea as a kid I was one of those,keeping my leagues Stats in an old loose leaf Notebook (APBA)

04-17-2010, 12:42 AM	#42
Hooray Saturday Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 251	Markus said a long time ago... maybe it was around OOTP5.... that eventually he wanted to have a 3D graphics engine to represent the actual game action. now if this is an option.... something you can turn off and completely ignore and play the game the way you've always played and enjoyed.... then why would you have any problem if it was an option for those that DO want to have a nice graphical representation of what's happening on the field?? put the brains of OOTP with the looks of the old FPS baseball game, and you'd have perfection, in my book. and for those that want nothing to do with it?? turn that option off.

04-17-2010, 11:37 PM	#53
CD1083 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,590	Yeah, but your smarky attitude says otherwise. There is a large portion of people on the board who would enjoy seeing OOTP with visuals. The esoteric comments like yours are the ones that will eventually put OOTP off the maps. How much more is left to add to the game? How many more versions are left? Simply brushing peoples desire for something as not important because it is not of interest to you is arrogant and selfish. Not for me, not for the rest of the board, but for Markus. If he doesn't want to add 3D animation or more visuals that is for him to decide. Those on here who seem to declare so loudly that they will refuse to purchase another version of the game will also be most likely to do so anyway when they have the product in hands that satisfies their need. The game is still not perfect but unless you plan on handing over 40 dollars a year for the next 10 years, something new will happen with or without you. Either Markus takes something that he has and open it up to a larger audience or someone else will. Adapt or perish, now as ever, is Nature's inexorable imperative.

04-18-2010, 01:02 AM	#57
SoxFan4Life Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: IN Posts: 5	Maybe it is just because I started playing OOTP a couple of days ago, but I find it to be the most immersive sports game I play. And this is including any console game I own. Sure I love my Madden NFL 10 and the graphics, with OOTP I am getting a whole different type of game but it is top notch in what it presents. Besides, if you want graphics why are you even playing OOTP?

04-18-2010, 09:06 AM	#58
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,076	OOTP is like Fantasy Baseball on steroids...(oops! bad choice of words ). The point being, fantasy baseball has no graphics yet millions of statheads play it competitively every year. OOTP only seems like a niche game mostly due to lack of exposure. I'm willing to bet that if fantasy players knew this was an option and that Winter is non-existent in OOTP, they would flock to this game by the 10's of thousands. I personally am a 'fantasy baseball to OOTP' convert as I found OOTP played out games, standings and stats much more compelling than the stat compilation competition found in fantasy leagues. I ran the Asahi league for several years as a fantasy league and then scrapped the fantasy crap for OOTP back in 2004(for which my league became the Asahi2 league). IMO, OOTP needs graphics just about as much as fantasy leagues need graphics. As far as sounds, I wouldn't mind a bit of an ambiance tune here and there while roaming the interface and pre-game pages as long as it didn't go overboard and become annoying, but all in all, I'm very happy with my pages full of numbers. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker??

04-18-2010, 10:03 PM	#60
ravinhood Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 374 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	You all talk about what you THINK is best but you totally missed the POINT of this thread. It's not about WHAT ALREADY IS it's about MORE INCOME from ADDING something that ISN'T. You all talk about blah blah blah need more money don't have this don't have that. Well if he ADDED graphics HE'd GET MORE MONEY. You think the MOGUL series is still in business because it doesn't make any money? hahaha you all are pretty silly. I'm just saying OOTPBB could make a LOT MORE MONEY if they would add the graphics of MOGUL. But, that's fine I'll continue to feed my money into MOGUL and you have have your silly text sim and PRETEND to see the game unfold. lmao Oh and BTW the TRADE AI is MUCH IMPROVED.