How do they do it?

wspahn21 · 03-29-2010, 07:07 PM

The improvements and features being added to OOTP 11 are some of the most radical since we switched from OOTP 6.5 to the SI look.

How is OOTP Developments able to add all these features/improvements this year and still have the game tested and put out in roughly the same one year time span as the past two releases that imho had much less to offer than this years release.

If I am off base then please correct me, but I am a little concerned that with all the new stuff this year we might see a lot more bugs at release than usual.

megamanmatt · 03-29-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

The improvements and features being added to OOTP 11 are some of the most radical since we switched from OOTP 6.5 to the SI look.

How is OOTP Developments able to add all these features/improvements this year and still have the game tested and put out in roughly the same one year time span as the past two releases that imho had much less to offer than this years release.

If I am off base then please correct me, but I am a little concerned that with all the new stuff this year we might see a lot more bugs at release than usual.

I have not a single fear. But even regarldess, there will always be a version that no other shall ever be buggier than, and after playing that I'm pretty sure I can handle any bug that might slip through with a grain of salt.

professor ape · 03-29-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

The improvements and features being added to OOTP 11 are some of the most radical since we switched from OOTP 6.5 to the SI look.

How is OOTP Developments able to add all these features/improvements this year and still have the game tested and put out in roughly the same one year time span as the past two releases that imho had much less to offer than this years release.

If I am off base then please correct me, but I am a little concerned that with all the new stuff this year we might see a lot more bugs at release than usual.

Is the glass half empty or half way to spilling over onto the table making a terrible mess which we'll then have to clean up?

wspahn21 · 03-29-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor ape

Is the glass half empty or half way to spilling over onto the table making a terrible mess which we'll then have to clean up?

The glass was shattered and the shards hit me in my face..

Khrog · 03-29-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

The glass was shattered and the shards hit me in my face..

In that case, there is nothing left to spill. Hoo-rah!

RchW · 03-29-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

The improvements and features being added to OOTP 11 are some of the most radical since we switched from OOTP 6.5 to the SI look.

How is OOTP Developments able to add all these features/improvements this year and still have the game tested and put out in roughly the same one year time span as the past two releases that imho had much less to offer than this years release.

If I am off base then please correct me, but I am a little concerned that with all the new stuff this year we might see a lot more bugs at release than usual.

I'm not sure they are as radical as you think. My impression is that these features are a natural outgrowth of the platform change made during the SI partnership and v2006. If you consider OOTP a large development project you know that deliverables (features) and milestones are a function of time/priority money and labor availability. I think Markus is at the point in this iteration of the program where he can program robust features and with the help of the beta team and us later can squash the majority of bugs early in the beta/patch cycle.

I think that most objective observers felt that OOTPX was fairly low on the bug scale. It will be interesting to see where v11 fits.

Biggio509 · 03-29-2010, 11:24 PM

It is my opinion that since the engine was redesigned most effort was put to making sure that was WAD. OOTP 10 made some big engine changes that needed serious testing to get right, eg. the new pitching system adding individual pitches and making them mean something was huge coding wise. Now that all of that is WAD(working as designed) you put in the flash. In reality some new features are things with a lot of work and effort you could have down in the old game, eg. feeder leagues with real college and high school names, lost features being put back in the new game, or cosmetic changes. I am not saying that they are not worth the price but the nuts and bolts of the game change little. It took a lot of time and effort to say set up real college feeders in OOTP X. However, they are not major engine changes that are likely to cause serious bugs.

It looks like the only real engine change here is making fielding WAD. That can seriously change things and take a lot of tweaking to get right. The rest seem more like tweaks. There are more numerous additions in OOTP XI but I think in scope of how they affect the engine they are much smaller than OOTP X. I would expect fewer issues with getting the game WAD as with OOTP X. Fielding changes will change the way the game is played but I think that is much more tweak than the adding of individual pitches.

This is no where near as big of an overhaul as OOTP X was.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-30-2010, 06:12 AM

Development started a few months earlier for this version, hence no time issues

Jamee999 · 03-30-2010, 07:19 AM

Marcus grew a third arm over the winter. It means he can code 50% quicker than previously.

bosunmate · 03-30-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamee999

Marcus grew a third arm over the winter. It means he can code 50% quicker than previously.

Must be something in the water in Germany.....

Malleus Dei · 03-30-2010, 09:33 AM

In the beer, not in the water. Sheesh.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-30-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

In the beer, not in the water. Sheesh.

I prefer red wine to be honest.

Malleus Dei · 03-30-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I prefer red wine to be honest.

As my beer-loving Munich-born stepfather would have said, "How typically North German."

gglennwill · 03-30-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I prefer red wine to be honest.

Sorry Markus, you will have to resign as a German as a result of this startling confession!

wspahn21 · 03-30-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

It is my opinion that since the engine was redesigned most effort was put to making sure that was WAD. OOTP 10 made some big engine changes that needed serious testing to get right, eg. the new pitching system adding individual pitches and making them mean something was huge coding wise. Now that all of that is WAD(working as designed) you put in the flash. In reality some new features are things with a lot of work and effort you could have down in the old game, eg. feeder leagues with real college and high school names, lost features being put back in the new game, or cosmetic changes. I am not saying that they are not worth the price but the nuts and bolts of the game change little. It took a lot of time and effort to say set up real college feeders in OOTP X. However, they are not major engine changes that are likely to cause serious bugs.

It looks like the only real engine change here is making fielding WAD. That can seriously change things and take a lot of tweaking to get right. The rest seem more like tweaks. There are more numerous additions in OOTP XI but I think in scope of how they affect the engine they are much smaller than OOTP X. I would expect fewer issues with getting the game WAD as with OOTP X. Fielding changes will change the way the game is played but I think that is much more tweak than the adding of individual pitches.

This is no where near as big of an overhaul as OOTP X was.

i am not a coder and don't understand code but it seems to me that adding the evolving leagues is a huge huge deal for the game. Owners that can up and decide to move and teams going bankrupt.

I guess if I understood what is under the hood better, I would see that it isn't that hard to implement, but right now for me that seems massive.

RchW · 03-30-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

i am not a coder and don't understand code but it seems to me that adding the evolving leagues is a huge huge deal for the game. Owners that can up and decide to move and teams going bankrupt.

I guess if I understood what is under the hood better, I would see that it isn't that hard to implement, but right now for me that seems massive.

Well I may be totally wrong but if computer programs develop anything like other products it's simple. It can take 8-10 years to develop a commercially viable product from a solid idea. However in the 2-5 years after commercialization that same product may evolve and undergo changes of an exponential nature to become almost unrecognizable from the initial offering, while performing the same function. Markus mentioned development time. That makes all the difference whether it is a widget or a game.

kq76 · 03-30-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMitch

i am not a coder and don't understand code but it seems to me that adding the evolving leagues is a huge huge deal for the game. Owners that can up and decide to move and teams going bankrupt.

I guess if I understood what is under the hood better, I would see that it isn't that hard to implement, but right now for me that seems massive.

It seems to me like most of this was possible for us to do in the game before and Markus has just programmed in the ability for the AI to do it. I imagine there were complications which made it not as easy as that may make it sound, but it doesn't seem to me like it would have been that hard to put in.

How he gets end of the season stat totals to be close to what we want from all sorts of different ratings taking into consideration injuries and everything is much more amazing to me. How all that is possible at all blows my mind. If we were in the medieval ages, I'd probably be accusing Markus of witchcraft.

Andreas Raht · 03-30-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamee999

Marcus grew a third arm over the winter. It
means he can code 50% quicker than previously.

Haha I doubt that he would use the third arm for coding

Anyway, we just started earlier, and this year Markus was just working like a machine and coding like a god. I'm feeling old when I watch him.

endgame · 03-30-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Haha I doubt that he would use the third arm for coding

That is funny.

Claymore · 03-31-2010, 07:30 PM

I generally don't set up a "real" league until the first patch. It usually takes me that long to figure out all the features anyways

03-29-2010, 07:07 PM	#1
wspahn21 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 426	How do they do it? The improvements and features being added to OOTP 11 are some of the most radical since we switched from OOTP 6.5 to the SI look. How is OOTP Developments able to add all these features/improvements this year and still have the game tested and put out in roughly the same one year time span as the past two releases that imho had much less to offer than this years release. If I am off base then please correct me, but I am a little concerned that with all the new stuff this year we might see a lot more bugs at release than usual.

03-30-2010, 06:12 AM	#8
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Development started a few months earlier for this version, hence no time issues __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-29-2010, 11:24 PM	#7
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	It is my opinion that since the engine was redesigned most effort was put to making sure that was WAD. OOTP 10 made some big engine changes that needed serious testing to get right, eg. the new pitching system adding individual pitches and making them mean something was huge coding wise. Now that all of that is WAD(working as designed) you put in the flash. In reality some new features are things with a lot of work and effort you could have down in the old game, eg. feeder leagues with real college and high school names, lost features being put back in the new game, or cosmetic changes. I am not saying that they are not worth the price but the nuts and bolts of the game change little. It took a lot of time and effort to say set up real college feeders in OOTP X. However, they are not major engine changes that are likely to cause serious bugs. It looks like the only real engine change here is making fielding WAD. That can seriously change things and take a lot of tweaking to get right. The rest seem more like tweaks. There are more numerous additions in OOTP XI but I think in scope of how they affect the engine they are much smaller than OOTP X. I would expect fewer issues with getting the game WAD as with OOTP X. Fielding changes will change the way the game is played but I think that is much more tweak than the adding of individual pitches. This is no where near as big of an overhaul as OOTP X was.

03-30-2010, 07:19 AM	#9
Jamee999 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 772	Marcus grew a third arm over the winter. It means he can code 50% quicker than previously.

03-31-2010, 07:30 PM	#20
Claymore All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 764	I generally don't set up a "real" league until the first patch. It usually takes me that long to figure out all the features anyways