Vorp

ry1220 · 01-30-2010, 01:03 AM

ESPN SportsNation had the attached poll. But I felt it didn't yield conclusive evidence as to a yay or nay for Sabremetrics. What do people who actually have come across VORP say?

Green & Gold Heart · 01-30-2010, 08:53 AM

I like it, even though I don't completely understand how it is determined. But I always look at VORP first in OOTP, followed by OPS for hitters, WHIP for pitchers. I like them new stats.

edddgar · 01-30-2010, 11:43 AM

I don't really ever see VORP used anymore. WAR just makes a lot more sense. It takes into account defense (at least at fangraphs and statcorner where I go for any baseball statistics) and makes more sense when trying to calculate a players true worth. A team of only replacement level players would be expected to win roughly 48 games. If you add Franklin Gutierrez's 2009 performance (just happened to have his player page open) the team would be expected to win roughly 54 games. VORP is almost more of a counting stat where WAR puts it into context.

Still sabermetrics goes beyond VORP and WAR and the true value is in stats such as tRA, FIP, UZR, PMR, etc. Also pitch values and pitch f/x data is huge as are some of the plate discipline stats when viewing struggling hitters. Really everything is huge. Sabermetrics isn't about one stat that explains everything, rather a whole mess of stats that give you a better idea of the big picture.

I'm really hoping to at least see FIP and wOBA in the next OOTP.

TGH-Adfabre · 01-30-2010, 01:12 PM

Eye candy. That's about it.

Déjà Bru · 01-31-2010, 03:56 PM

The things about VORP are:

It's inconsistent. I understand OOTP defines it a bit differently than other Sabermetric sources. That leads to:
It's fuzzy. I don't trust statistics that I cannot easily calculate with a calculator, much less in my head. Finally,
Let's face it. The graphic above has it right. Most baseball fans are not smart enough (or interested enough) to understand VORP. So when you try to use VORP in a baseball conversation, nine times out of ten you are going to look, and sound, like a dork.

Déjà Bru · 01-31-2010, 03:59 PM

"Hey, who you calling a dork? Ban Bru, that Village Idiot!"

RchW · 01-31-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

"Hey, who you calling a dork? Ban Bru, that Village Idiot!"

No need to ban. Look where he's walking.

kq76 · 01-31-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

It's fuzzy. I don't trust statistics that I cannot easily calculate with a calculator, much less in my head.

Ditto.

Overall, I'm meh about it though. I kind of like that you can look at one stat to get a rough idea of how valuable players are compared to each other, but the thing is so many players can vary so wildly in the stat from year to year that it's not of that much use for me in looking at who to go for in the future. For determining awards, however, it's good enough for me.

mikev · 02-02-2010, 11:30 AM

WAR is much better and much easier to explain in a context that people understand.

It's also pretty simple to calculate using wOBA and UZR, which is why I hope upon hope that those 3 stats will be included in whatever the next OOTP is.

actionjackson · 02-07-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

WAR is much better and much easier to explain in a context that people understand.

It's also pretty simple to calculate using wOBA and UZR, which is why I hope upon hope that those 3 stats will be included in whatever the next OOTP is.

To paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, the next OOTP will mean that this series "goes to eleven".

View Poll Results: What do you think of VORP [and other sabremetric stats] as a statistic?
Love It	27	84.38%
Hate It	5	15.63%
[I'm completely oblivious to the stats the game I play uses]	0	0%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

01-30-2010, 01:03 AM	#1
ry1220 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 818	Vorp ESPN SportsNation had the attached poll. But I felt it didn't yield conclusive evidence as to a yay or nay for Sabremetrics. What do people who actually have come across VORP say? Attached Images

01-30-2010, 01:12 PM	#4
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,601	Eye candy. That's about it. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

01-31-2010, 03:56 PM	#5
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	The things about VORP are: It's inconsistent. I understand OOTP defines it a bit differently than other Sabermetric sources. That leads to: It's fuzzy. I don't trust statistics that I cannot easily calculate with a calculator, much less in my head. Finally, Let's face it. The graphic above has it right. Most baseball fans are not smart enough (or interested enough) to understand VORP. So when you try to use VORP in a baseball conversation, nine times out of ten you are going to look, and sound, like a dork. __________________ - Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 01-31-2010 at 03:57 PM.

01-31-2010, 03:59 PM	#6
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	"Hey, who you calling a dork? Ban Bru, that Village Idiot!" __________________ - Bru

01-30-2010, 08:53 AM	#2
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	I like it, even though I don't completely understand how it is determined. But I always look at VORP first in OOTP, followed by OPS for hitters, WHIP for pitchers. I like them new stats.

01-30-2010, 11:43 AM	#3
edddgar Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	I don't really ever see VORP used anymore. WAR just makes a lot more sense. It takes into account defense (at least at fangraphs and statcorner where I go for any baseball statistics) and makes more sense when trying to calculate a players true worth. A team of only replacement level players would be expected to win roughly 48 games. If you add Franklin Gutierrez's 2009 performance (just happened to have his player page open) the team would be expected to win roughly 54 games. VORP is almost more of a counting stat where WAR puts it into context. Still sabermetrics goes beyond VORP and WAR and the true value is in stats such as tRA, FIP, UZR, PMR, etc. Also pitch values and pitch f/x data is huge as are some of the plate discipline stats when viewing struggling hitters. Really everything is huge. Sabermetrics isn't about one stat that explains everything, rather a whole mess of stats that give you a better idea of the big picture. I'm really hoping to at least see FIP and wOBA in the next OOTP.

02-02-2010, 11:30 AM	#9
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	WAR is much better and much easier to explain in a context that people understand. It's also pretty simple to calculate using wOBA and UZR, which is why I hope upon hope that those 3 stats will be included in whatever the next OOTP is. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM