To my fellow n00bs who are frustrated (I'm not) that OOTPX isn't out yet

actionjackson · 05-21-2009, 11:05 AM

I did my ten days with the OOTP9 demo and am now having a blast with the full free version of OOTP5 that can be downloaded from this very site. Yeah, the interface is a bit clunky and some options that are available in OOTP9 are not in OOTP5, but it allows you to check out the basic framework of how the game handles things like free agency, arbitration, trades, waivers etc. It beats sitting around kvetching, moaning, and whining

that Markus either: a) Doesn't post minute by minute updates as to the progress of OOTPX, which of course takes him away from working on it, which causes further delays or b) Doesn't get the game out to his public this bleepin' minute regardless of whether it's ready or not, which I believe would cause the frequent complainers club to kvetch, moan, and whine about the amount of bugs in the game because that's what complainers do. It also brings about this reaction

from OOTP veterans and developers alike. But, go ahead and continue to rail against the injustice of a text sim game being brought out late, even though if it were brought out today, there would still be one month left until the end of spring. A little perspective people.

treedom · 05-21-2009, 11:12 AM

I kept bringing up that v5 was free whenever people brought up the whole "v9 should be free with a v10 purchase now I have nothing to play" line of complaint but was pretty much ignored.

On the face of it I guess it does seem like it's not something you'd want to play anymore, it being almost 5 versions old and all. But it actually still plays pretty well. It's a text sim, remember, so the graphics don't get outdated like they tend to do with other games. The features are what matter with this game, and it was already pretty feature-rich even back then.

I download it when I'm visiting the inlaws sometimes and go at it. It's still better than any baseball sim not named OOTP 6/6.5/2006/2007/2008/9.

PotatoPeeler · 05-21-2009, 11:14 AM

+1

actionjackson · 05-21-2009, 11:42 AM

Continuing from my OP, there's another reason for playing OOTP5. You'll get used to its limitations and then when OOTPX does arrive, it'll be a massive step up, making it seem that much better to you.

Assos · 05-21-2009, 11:48 AM

5.0 was fun but when they release 6.5, you will see the evolution. There are members here that still perfer 6.5 over the newer version. I happen to like to newer versions, sans 7.

Theonlystd · 05-21-2009, 11:55 AM

I think plenty would be happy without constant updates. Like an update a week or something would be handy and likely not interfere with devlopment time

TavesSoul · 05-21-2009, 12:03 PM

As a fellow noob who's been reading the ongoings for a while, here's my two cents:

I think those that are demanding the game now are ridiculous. You were promised a product sometime in Spring 2009. It is not yet nearing the end of Spring (the actual enddate of which is June 20th, I believe), so expecting it on a whim to be out now, is kind of a dramatic jump on their part. I understand that more then likely they are anxious, but demending it now doesn't make sense, as you'd just be getting a flawed program, and then as others have postulated, you'd be complaining about "why would you release a flawed program". Patience is a virtue for a reason, but I doubt that would help, as you probably complain by nature.

On the other side of the fence, I can understand complaints about not getting updates. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to expect maybe a weekly update saying basically "hey, we're getting even closer" or "there's been a slight delay due to a bug". I have seen people saying that doing this would cause delays due to taking away worktime, but I don't think the people that are asking for updates are expecting a "minute by minute update", but more just a weekly word of how things are going. I understand that the "minute by minute updates" was hyperbole to prove a point, but when actually taken in context of a five line update once a week or so, the point is rather mute. The developers could easily do it without taking much time away from programming. It'd take maybe five minutes.

That being said, I also understand the developers lack of want to do that. I have been a part of the Football Manager forums over at SI, so I'm fully aware of how quickly some people can take progress updates as promise of the game being done soon, and not taking into account that the programmers might run into unforseen problems which might delay things. Giving an update makes some people think irrationally that it means the game is going to be done within the next week, month, etc.. It gets worse whenever you post a timeframe, since if you run into problems that push it back, you're accused of lying, and the complaints come out in full force (see people taking Spring 2009 to mean something it doesn't). Markus himself posting that he thought it might be out before the end of May was a risk on his part, as now people are complaining about how it is currently May, and it's not out yet, not actually taking the time to think that May itself still has 10 more days left, and even then, Markus only said he was hopefull it might come out by then. So it's understandable why developers hate to give any updates at all, let alone a time frame. Hence why they just say Spring 2009, as that gives them a wider berth.

In conclusion, complaining hardly ever helps things, and I understand why developers hate to give updates at all, for fear of the community drawing there own conclusions from the updates and being disappointed and upset when their arbirtrarily drawn conclusions aren't met. Still, I think there is something said for giving the occasional "general update", as it would probably satisfy the majority of the people waiting around. The sad thing is, there is very little reward for doing that, as the most vocal are those that complain about things.

Also, I hope this adds some perspective to every view. Again, it's just my two cents, and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but maybe more just help to diffuse the situation that has arose. If I'm wrong about something, feel free to let me know. I prefer to discuss rather then just rant.

torn51 · 05-21-2009, 12:17 PM

where can I download version 5, cant seem to find it. Maybe I'm just blind.

PotatoPeeler · 05-21-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torn51

where can I download version 5, cant seem to find it. Maybe I'm just blind.

OOTP Developments: OOTP 5 available for FREE!!!

TavesSoul · 05-21-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torn51

where can I download version 5, cant seem to find it. Maybe I'm just blind.

I too was wondering this, but I finally found it here:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/article.php?newsid=396

OldFatGuy · 05-21-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assos

5.0 was fun but when they release 6.5, you will see the evolution. There are members here that still perfer 6.5 over the newer version. I happen to like to newer versions, sans 7.

I keep intending to get that version, as I've heard so many wonderful things about it.

But it's still $30. I still don't get that. That's more than OOTP 8, which is a newer version. If they would knock that in half (I don't see $15 for 6.5 while $20 for 8 being unreasonable), I'd pounce.

Cryomaniac · 05-21-2009, 02:18 PM

Apparently they still make a significant amount of money on 6.5, that's why it's not free.

DaveHorn · 05-21-2009, 02:37 PM

v5 is great!

I hear there are some pretty kick ass v5 leagues out there too.

OldFatGuy · 05-21-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

I keep intending to get that version, as I've heard so many wonderful things about it.

But it's still $30. I still don't get that. That's more than OOTP 8, which is a newer version. If they would knock that in half (I don't see $15 for 6.5 while $20 for 8 being unreasonable), I'd pounce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Apparently they still make a significant amount of money on 6.5, that's why it's not free.

I wasn't suggesting it should be free, I was suggesting that it's odd that it costs more than OOTP8. 6.5 is $30, while 8 is $20. If they would knock 6.5 in half to $15, I'd go for it. I wasn't in any way suggesting they should give it away, well, unless they really want to.

kq76 · 05-21-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

I wasn't suggesting it should be free, I was suggesting that it's odd that it costs more than OOTP8. 6.5 is $30, while 8 is $20. If they would knock 6.5 in half to $15, I'd go for it. I wasn't in any way suggesting they should give it away, well, unless they really want to.

Maybe they'd make more by volume halving the price of OOTP6.5, maybe not. I suspect they're comfortable enough with what they are getting from it and they're scared of getting less so they leave it at the price it is. If you're not already feeling a pinch it's easier to take a risk that something else will be better, not worse.

torn51 · 05-21-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

OOTP Developments: OOTP 5 available for FREE!!!

thanks

PotatoPeeler · 05-21-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torn51

thanks

You betcha.

Cryomaniac · 05-21-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

I wasn't suggesting it should be free, I was suggesting that it's odd that it costs more than OOTP8. 6.5 is $30, while 8 is $20. If they would knock 6.5 in half to $15, I'd go for it. I wasn't in any way suggesting they should give it away, well, unless they really want to.

I wasn't directly replying to you and I agree, it is a bit odd. Presumably more people are still buying 6.5 than are buying 8.

StyxNCa · 05-21-2009, 10:50 PM

I'm pretty sure if there was going to be a delay, we would hear about it.

RchW · 05-21-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Apparently they still make a significant amount of money on 6.5, that's why it's not free.

And it should not be free. I was astounded when several people suggested it be made available for free. Would any of them willingly forego income from their own work or intellectual product (say a book) just because it was an old edition?

05-21-2009, 11:05 AM	#1
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	To my fellow n00bs who are frustrated (I'm not) that OOTPX isn't out yet I did my ten days with the OOTP9 demo and am now having a blast with the full free version of OOTP5 that can be downloaded from this very site. Yeah, the interface is a bit clunky and some options that are available in OOTP9 are not in OOTP5, but it allows you to check out the basic framework of how the game handles things like free agency, arbitration, trades, waivers etc. It beats sitting around kvetching, moaning, and whining that Markus either: a) Doesn't post minute by minute updates as to the progress of OOTPX, which of course takes him away from working on it, which causes further delays or b) Doesn't get the game out to his public this bleepin' minute regardless of whether it's ready or not, which I believe would cause the frequent complainers club to kvetch, moan, and whine about the amount of bugs in the game because that's what complainers do. It also brings about this reaction from OOTP veterans and developers alike. But, go ahead and continue to rail against the injustice of a text sim game being brought out late, even though if it were brought out today, there would still be one month left until the end of spring. A little perspective people.

05-21-2009, 11:12 AM	#2
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	I kept bringing up that v5 was free whenever people brought up the whole "v9 should be free with a v10 purchase now I have nothing to play" line of complaint but was pretty much ignored. On the face of it I guess it does seem like it's not something you'd want to play anymore, it being almost 5 versions old and all. But it actually still plays pretty well. It's a text sim, remember, so the graphics don't get outdated like they tend to do with other games. The features are what matter with this game, and it was already pretty feature-rich even back then. I download it when I'm visiting the inlaws sometimes and go at it. It's still better than any baseball sim not named OOTP 6/6.5/2006/2007/2008/9. __________________ A rake and a roustabout. Last edited by treedom; 05-21-2009 at 11:14 AM.

05-21-2009, 11:14 AM	#3
PotatoPeeler Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 3,639	+1 __________________ 培傑西 I have never taken a lesson on how to talk on TV in my life. - Tim McCarver Guns have only two enemies; rust and liberals. The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel.

05-21-2009, 12:03 PM	#7
TavesSoul Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 168	As a fellow noob who's been reading the ongoings for a while, here's my two cents: I think those that are demanding the game now are ridiculous. You were promised a product sometime in Spring 2009. It is not yet nearing the end of Spring (the actual enddate of which is June 20th, I believe), so expecting it on a whim to be out now, is kind of a dramatic jump on their part. I understand that more then likely they are anxious, but demending it now doesn't make sense, as you'd just be getting a flawed program, and then as others have postulated, you'd be complaining about "why would you release a flawed program". Patience is a virtue for a reason, but I doubt that would help, as you probably complain by nature. On the other side of the fence, I can understand complaints about not getting updates. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to expect maybe a weekly update saying basically "hey, we're getting even closer" or "there's been a slight delay due to a bug". I have seen people saying that doing this would cause delays due to taking away worktime, but I don't think the people that are asking for updates are expecting a "minute by minute update", but more just a weekly word of how things are going. I understand that the "minute by minute updates" was hyperbole to prove a point, but when actually taken in context of a five line update once a week or so, the point is rather mute. The developers could easily do it without taking much time away from programming. It'd take maybe five minutes. That being said, I also understand the developers lack of want to do that. I have been a part of the Football Manager forums over at SI, so I'm fully aware of how quickly some people can take progress updates as promise of the game being done soon, and not taking into account that the programmers might run into unforseen problems which might delay things. Giving an update makes some people think irrationally that it means the game is going to be done within the next week, month, etc.. It gets worse whenever you post a timeframe, since if you run into problems that push it back, you're accused of lying, and the complaints come out in full force (see people taking Spring 2009 to mean something it doesn't). Markus himself posting that he thought it might be out before the end of May was a risk on his part, as now people are complaining about how it is currently May, and it's not out yet, not actually taking the time to think that May itself still has 10 more days left, and even then, Markus only said he was hopefull it might come out by then. So it's understandable why developers hate to give any updates at all, let alone a time frame. Hence why they just say Spring 2009, as that gives them a wider berth. In conclusion, complaining hardly ever helps things, and I understand why developers hate to give updates at all, for fear of the community drawing there own conclusions from the updates and being disappointed and upset when their arbirtrarily drawn conclusions aren't met. Still, I think there is something said for giving the occasional "general update", as it would probably satisfy the majority of the people waiting around. The sad thing is, there is very little reward for doing that, as the most vocal are those that complain about things. Also, I hope this adds some perspective to every view. Again, it's just my two cents, and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but maybe more just help to diffuse the situation that has arose. If I'm wrong about something, feel free to let me know. I prefer to discuss rather then just rant. Last edited by TavesSoul; 05-21-2009 at 12:05 PM.

05-21-2009, 02:18 PM	#12
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	Apparently they still make a significant amount of money on 6.5, that's why it's not free. __________________

05-21-2009, 11:42 AM	#4
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	Continuing from my OP, there's another reason for playing OOTP5. You'll get used to its limitations and then when OOTPX does arrive, it'll be a massive step up, making it seem that much better to you.

05-21-2009, 11:48 AM	#5
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,768	5.0 was fun but when they release 6.5, you will see the evolution. There are members here that still perfer 6.5 over the newer version. I happen to like to newer versions, sans 7.

05-21-2009, 11:55 AM	#6
Theonlystd Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 159	I think plenty would be happy without constant updates. Like an update a week or something would be handy and likely not interfere with devlopment time

05-21-2009, 12:17 PM	#8
torn51 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2	where can I download version 5, cant seem to find it. Maybe I'm just blind.

05-21-2009, 02:37 PM	#13
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	v5 is great! I hear there are some pretty kick ass v5 leagues out there too. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish

05-21-2009, 10:50 PM	#19
StyxNCa Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 3,136	I'm pretty sure if there was going to be a delay, we would hear about it.