Grokking The Game - Page 2

Malleus Dei · 01-09-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Oh, I get it....an initiation sort of...okay!

More or less. Consider it to be "Welcome aboard, here's the search engine box, have fun" if that works better.

Trust me, I wasn't being obnoxious - ask anyone here who goes back to the early OOTP years, as they've actually seen me being obnoxious. That was me trying to be slightly funny but still make a point.

Malleus Dei · 01-09-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I should find one of the first posts that I ever had, on this board.

I got just .... HAMMERED by MD. Yeah. Initiation. Sure.

Hey, you got better.

Le Grande Orange · 01-09-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

More or less. Consider it to be "Welcome aboard, here's the search engine box, have fun" if that works better.

Of course, if you had told him which poster's threads and posts to search for it would have been more helpful.

84Hammy · 01-09-2009, 08:20 PM

Without getting "Hammered" by MD, (thought before the night is through, I may in fact be hammered) I am of the opinion that the search engine sucks because it is so limiting because of the who 3 letter requirement. Hammer away.

ashantewarrier · 01-09-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84Hammy

Without getting "Hammered" by MD, (thought before the night is through, I may in fact be hammered) I am of the opinion that the search engine sucks because it is so limiting because of the who 3 letter requirement. Hammer away.

The search engine could be improved.

NomarHits400 · 01-09-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Hit a man over the head with a fish killing him, and he need not worry about eating at all.

Fixed THAT for ya.....

Syd Thrift · 01-09-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

Make a snotty comment about how a man already has a fish and he should stop asking for a stupid fish, wonder why nobody likes you.

9tails · 01-10-2009, 01:48 AM

Give a man a fire, keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Anybody got any more engine insights?

bosunmate · 01-10-2009, 01:49 AM

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Make a snotty comment about how a man already has a fish and he should stop asking for a stupid fish, wonder why nobody likes you.

Vinny P. · 01-10-2009, 03:22 AM

Wow, this thread keeps getting derailed.

Anyway, I could have sworn there is a section somewhere that RonCo had published, either on the OOTP site, the forums, or even on PadresFan's site.

I know there was a big long thread in which I had asked a certain specific question that had to do if the OOTPDevs would ever add the option of shading OFers left or right that kinda slowly evolved into the sort of thing you were asking about 9tails.

RonCo had a TON of insight, and was in the middle of doing a lot of research into this sort of thing.

But this sort of thing is probably purposely kept hidden from public, simply because Markus and co. would be afraid of copy-cats finding out how the engine actually works. Which I do not blame them one bit! I would rather NOT know these things, and have a great game that is perhaps the most accurate baseball sim ever created and improved upon, than to know, and have the risk of some copy-cat putting OOTPD out of biz.

I think there was something mentioned along those lines where there are extra lines of code that further changes how the engine works, but OOPTD are keeping their mouths shut about it, in order to protect their product.

There are also other things that come into play as well, such as the mood of the players, and the player pesonalities come somewhat into play as well. I read THAT in the manual lol.

injury log · 01-10-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9tails

For example, I know that in RL, patient hitters often hit for more power, because they'll wait for a good, driveable pitch. But impatient hitters strike out less and, usually, hit for better averages, because they put the ball in play and don't get behind in the count and leave themselves as vulnerable to strikeouts. As a good seamhead, I love me some patient hitters. But how well does this model translate to OOTP9?

This thread seems to have gotten derailed, and the question above, which is a very important one, doesn't seem to have been addressed at all. Indeed, while OOTP gets a lot of its statistical output right, it's exactly what 9tails talks about above that should be one of the the next steps in getting a perfect player model: we need to get the right correlations among player abilities. I'd want to compare with RL data to be sure, but my impression is that OOTP generates far too many players capable of 40/40 seasons - guys with great Power and great Speed. It's certainly also possible that OOTP generates too many guys with high Eye ratings and high Contact ratings, or low Eye ratings and low AvoidK ratings. I'm pretty sure some correlations are built into the game (for example, I think there's some correlation between Speed and OF Range, though I'm not sure, and there's certainly correlation between Velocity and Stuff, though Velo is cosmetic in OOTP, and between GB rate and Movement).

I think many of the posts above have somewhat trivialized 9tails main point, and this is an area that hasn't been sufficiently investigated by anyone, on beta or otherwise.

Cryomaniac · 01-10-2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9tails

Give a man a fire, keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

I was going to post that

ashantewarrier · 01-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Now that I think about it MD "hazed" me on my first post on the OOTP boards:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...se-markus.html

Just MD being MD!

satchel · 01-10-2009, 08:04 PM

Surely MD was kidding when he was pointing out the spelling of your screen name. It was obviously done that way on purpose.

Syd Thrift · 01-10-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchel

Surely MD was kidding when he was pointing out the spelling of your screen name. It was obviously done that way on purpose.

I'm going to guess "not".

Curtis · 01-11-2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

There's certainly correlation between Velocity and Stuff, though Velo is cosmetic in OOTP.

Really? I thought that Markus had 'explained' that higher velocity resulted in a greater chance of achieving potential (or maybe that was a more rapid rise toward potential). That was for version 2006 or 2007, so maybe it no longer works that way?

Syd Thrift · 01-11-2009, 04:32 AM

Velocity is definitely not cosmetic in the game.

Vinny P. · 01-11-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Velocity is definitely not cosmetic in the game.

God, I sure as hell hope not! The game would be seriously flawed if it was.

Tony M · 01-11-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

God, I sure as hell hope not! The game would be seriously flawed if it was.

I'm trying to find the thread where I made some tests on this. Altering velocity on a created player has no effect as it's tied with the other ratings on creation. A player with better stuff tends to get a higher velocity at creation, but once it's created there is no correlation between altering velocity and stuff...

Vinny P. · 01-11-2009, 07:25 AM

There is one big thing that velocity plays a part in. When you play out your games, you can tell your pitcher tires as his speed drops.

I always assumed that velocity was tied in with Stuff, since it always seems to me that people with high stuff also has high velocity. So maybe that is how they use velocity, like you said.

01-10-2009, 10:40 AM	#33
ashantewarrier Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somerset, NJ via Brooklyn, NY Posts: 2,309	Now that I think about it MD "hazed" me on my first post on the OOTP boards: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...se-markus.html Just MD being MD! __________________ "I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being." -Jackie Robinson, #42 Brooklyn Dodgers *"Hitting is better than sex."* - Reggie Jackson

01-09-2009, 08:20 PM	#24
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	Without getting "Hammered" by MD, (thought before the night is through, I may in fact be hammered) I am of the opinion that the search engine sucks because it is so limiting because of the who 3 letter requirement. Hammer away.

01-10-2009, 01:48 AM	#28
9tails Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 16	Give a man a fire, keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. Anybody got any more engine insights?

01-10-2009, 03:22 AM	#30
Vinny P. Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,518 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Wow, this thread keeps getting derailed. Anyway, I could have sworn there is a section somewhere that RonCo had published, either on the OOTP site, the forums, or even on PadresFan's site. I know there was a big long thread in which I had asked a certain specific question that had to do if the OOTPDevs would ever add the option of shading OFers left or right that kinda slowly evolved into the sort of thing you were asking about 9tails. RonCo had a TON of insight, and was in the middle of doing a lot of research into this sort of thing. But this sort of thing is probably purposely kept hidden from public, simply because Markus and co. would be afraid of copy-cats finding out how the engine actually works. Which I do not blame them one bit! I would rather NOT know these things, and have a great game that is perhaps the most accurate baseball sim ever created and improved upon, than to know, and have the risk of some copy-cat putting OOTPD out of biz. I think there was something mentioned along those lines where there are extra lines of code that further changes how the engine works, but OOPTD are keeping their mouths shut about it, in order to protect their product. There are also other things that come into play as well, such as the mood of the players, and the player pesonalities come somewhat into play as well. I read THAT in the manual lol.

01-10-2009, 08:04 PM	#34
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Surely MD was kidding when he was pointing out the spelling of your screen name. It was obviously done that way on purpose.

01-11-2009, 07:25 AM	#40
Vinny P. Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,518 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	There is one big thing that velocity plays a part in. When you play out your games, you can tell your pitcher tires as his speed drops. I always assumed that velocity was tied in with Stuff, since it always seems to me that people with high stuff also has high velocity. So maybe that is how they use velocity, like you said.