Refunds? Deception?

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Sudy Nym

I think you guys are giving Hammerdog an unreasonably hard time. While I understand the reaction to his complaint, at least he's been respectful and phrased his thoughts coherently. Kind of a rotten welcome for a new member of the community.

I think the reaction had been better if he hadn't included a threat about contacting the AG and FTC. Not that the AG would care or the FTC is even the right agency.

[captkirk685]

I think the game is awesome, I didn't expect the rosters to be perfect, but of course the rosters were not the selling point for me buying this game, fictional leagues are my thing and sometimes I like to play some older seasons from the 1920's

[Jermanfu]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I don't think the Federal Trade Commission does what you think it does.

I think Erik is right. However, let's also keep in mind OP, that this is not an American company you are talking about. Even if I agreed with your dramatic approach (which I don't) There's not much that can be done about your complaint.

[Sudy Nym]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I think the reaction had been better if he hadn't included a threat about contacting the AG and FTC. Not that the AG would care or the FTC is even the right agency.

Well, that comment was, in my opinion, quite obviously sarcasm.

Everyone seems to feel the need to act as midwife in the birthing of the next great coming of OOTP. Members of the development and beta teams may be justified; others, I think, might be being a little oversensitive.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Sudy Nym

I think you guys are giving Hammerdog an unreasonably hard time. While I understand the reaction to his complaint, at least he's been respectful and phrased his thoughts coherently. Kind of a rotten welcome for a new member of the community.

That said, never in my wildest dreams did I expect the included rosters to be complete. Would be awesome if they had been, though. (And I say that with the utmost respect for the roster-makers. I'm not ungrateful for their work.)

Since a refund is available to the OP, why was it necessary to post about deception? The roster may have problems (I don't use it) but deception implies intent on the part of OOTP Developments. I find that inflammatory and not respectful.

Just because this is a message board doesn't mean one has to use it. If someone has a serious problem perhaps PM or E-mail would be a better option.

[Mister Bogart]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I don't think the Federal Trade Commission does what you think it does.

I am totally hearing Mandy Patinkin in Princess Bride..."I don't think that word means what you think it does"

[edm]

Originally Posted by RchW

Since a refund is available to the OP, why was it necessary to post about deception? The roster may have problems (I don't use it) but deception implies intent on the part of OOTP Developments. I find that inflammatory and not respectful.

Just because this is a message board doesn't mean one has to use it. If someone has a serious problem perhaps PM or E-mail would be a better option.

exactly. Implying that OOTP Developments intentially deceived it's customers because a feature of the game that is in the game doesn't meet some one's expectations wasn't the best way to state his case.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Mister Bogart

I am totally hearing Mandy Patinkin in Princess Bride..."I don't think that word means what you think it does"

Then I achieved my goal.

[Dargone]

Guuuhhh...

[Sudy Nym]

Originally Posted by RchW

Just because this is a message board doesn't mean one has to use it. If someone has a serious problem perhaps PM or E-mail would be a better option.

I'm pretty sure one has the right to use this message board no matter their opinion, as long as they don't violate any of the community rules.

My feeling is that someone should have the right to be a critical of a product they've purchased, justified or not. And everyone certainly has the right to be critical of Hammerdog's opinion. I just don't think it's necessary for the majority to respond with such negativity and make what was a sarcastic remark their primary point of dispute.

It would be nice if the community was pleased it had gained a member, and did it's best within reason to make him happy. Not that it isn't sheer lunacy to expect a perfect roster set off the bat. But why chase the fellow off before he's had a chance to settle in?

[eMLBCommish]

Originally Posted by Hammerdog

I recognize that I have no credibility with the community, as I have not visited the boards often, nor posted much.


Having said that, it is deceptive to market the game as having 2008 rosters when, by any measure, the game does NOT have those rosters. Missing players, players with no ratings at all, AAA teams with virtually no players. A quote from the web site: "Start a career with 2008 major league rosters including full minor leagues". Another: "Built-in 2008 Opening Day rosters." Both of these statements are patently false. This was a key marketing message for the new game, for heaven's sake!

I am not questioning the difficulty of creating such rosters. But either advertise that they have them, and deliver, or don't advertise that they have them.

I enjoyed OOTP2007, but wanted real rosters. So I ordered OOTP9 based on claims that such rosters would be included. They are not. I will be asking for a refund. After I sleep on it, I will probably hold off on the letter to my state attorney general and the Federal Trade Commission alleging a deceptive trade practice. But there has to be some disincentive to this type of marketing for future versions....

You lost me at "I have no credibility"...

Enjoy your long wait talking to the FTC. They'll appreciate the laugh you're planning to give them.

And by the way, thanks for disrespecting the COUNTLESS UNPAID MAN HOURS that Erich Ingram and others put into this effort, only to have individuals with no morals or credibility, admittedly so, make negative and threatening comments. Your complaint with OOTP aside, you specifically attacked the community by saying this. So if you had no idea everyone (Cubby, Erich, myself, and anyone else) that did rosters was unpaid, spending lots of time ignoring loved ones and jobs, etc, then you're very misinformed, and need to do your research.

Next life, get some credibility, and make your own damn rosters. It's comments like these that drive good hard working people like Erich Ingram away (who has now quit doing rosters for the general public due to it affecting his personal and professional life).

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Sudy Nym

I'm pretty sure one has the right to use this message board no matter their opinion, as long as they don't violate any of the community rules.

My feeling is that someone should have the right to be a critical of a product they've purchased, justified or not. And everyone certainly has the right to be critical of Hammerdog's opinion. I just don't think it's necessary for the majority to respond with such negativity and make what was a sarcastic remark their primary point of dispute.

It would be nice if the community was pleased it had gained a member, and did it's best within reason to make him happy. Not that it isn't sheer lunacy to expect a perfect roster set off the bat. But why chase the fellow off before he's had a chance to settle in?

You completely missed my point. He could have taken his complaint directly to OOTP Developments via PM or E-mail. Choosing to publicly accuse them of deception with no evidence is not alright IMO.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Sudy Nym

Well, that comment was, in my opinion, quite obviously sarcasm.

Given the tone of the rest of his post, I certainly didn't read it as sarcasm, and still don't.

[SittingDuck]

Those who like to jump overboard and overreact to things tend to do it chronically.

[eMLBCommish]

Let me save you some trouble, Hammer.

OOTP 9 Pricing Policy with Refund Information

Buh-bye. Sorry we couldn't help you. Don't let the door hit you too hard while leaving. Enjoy your EA Sports' selections!

[Sudy Nym]

Originally Posted by RchW

You completely missed my point. He could have taken his complaint directly to OOTP Developments via PM or E-mail. Choosing to publicly accuse them of deception with no evidence is not alright IMO.

Well, as far as he's concerned, his evidence is the in-game rosters. He's unhappy, and he wants everyone to know about it. Perhaps he needs to be enlightened as to the way things work around here; people new to the game don't realize it's a fairly small, close-knit community. They sign up at the forum as paying customers of a video game. To them, these might as well be the message boards of Electronic Arts. They voice a dissenting opinion, and they're lambasted for piercing the thin skin of a community they're unfamiliar with.

Originally Posted by Erik W.

Given the tone of the rest of his post, I certainly didn't read it as sarcasm, and still don't.

Well, I thought he himself explained that it was meant as sarcasm in a later post. Not that message board and e-mail "tone" is something that is easily perceived in the best of times.

Perhaps the original poster introduced himself in an insensitive manner, but screw second chances, eh? Don't try to convince the guy to stick around and find a way to enjoy the game, or anything.

[Bears5122]

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

And by the way, thanks for disrespecting the COUNTLESS UNPAID MAN HOURS that Erich Ingram and others put into this effort, only to have individuals with no morals or credibility, admittedly so, make negative and threatening comments.

Woah! The original poster did pay for those rosters. It was listed as a feature in the game. The fact Erich did it for free is completely irrelevent to the discussion. That is an arrangement between Erich and the makers of the game.

The FTC comment is moronic But whether this set constitutes a full roster set is debateable.

[eMLBCommish]

Originally Posted by Bears5122

Woah! The original poster did pay for those rosters. It was listed as a feature in the game. The fact Erich did it for free is completely irrelevent to the discussion. That is an arrangement between Erich and the makers of the game.

The FTC comment is moronic But whether this set constitutes a full roster set is debateable.

You fail to see the point I make: Without such individuals making this effort, and because OOTP is a small company that probably couldn't afford to pay 1, let alone 10, people to create a roster set... we wouldn't be having this discussion because there'd be no roster set to talk about.

[PeeKay53]

While I think it does kind of suck that a new member of the boards was welcomed so poorly, sometimes the way you introduce yourself to the community reflects the response you get.

The OP had every right to post how he feels about the game, but I think if he had posted a little more constructively as in "I feel like the rosters are not complete as advertised and feel that revisions to the roster set is a top priority for the first patch" then the response would not have been so heated.

But again, the OP has the right to post whatever he wanted to. I just think if he had done it in another manner we wouldn't have run into this mess. More on topic, though, the one good thing about the game is that problems can be fixed through patches and hopefully as a community we pull together and get it done.

[Bears5122]

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

You fail to see the point I make: Without such individuals making this effort, and because OOTP is a small company that probably couldn't afford to pay 1, let alone 10, people to create a roster set... we wouldn't be having this discussion because there'd be no roster set to talk about.

It is honorable that people are doing that for free. No one is denying that. But the original poster still paid money for something he was told would be in the game. Just because the chef at a restauarant is working for free, doesn't mean I don't have a right to a refund if my cheeseburger comes without a bun.

The best solution would probably been for the makers of the game not to advertise a full MLB roster set and just had it been a pleasent surprise.