OOTP 9 Newsletter: Historicals!

Markus Heinsohn · 05-24-2008, 10:52 AM

Our latest newsletter discusses the improvements for historical leagues in OOTP 9. Have a look here, and don't forget to pre-order

OOTP 9 Newsletter

Cheers,
Markus

StyxNCa · 05-24-2008, 08:06 PM

This sounds TERRIFIC! I really like the idea of importing leagues prior to 1901 and park neutralization. Good job!!

Markus Heinsohn · 05-25-2008, 06:23 AM

You can thank Garlon & Spritze, they did a great job collecting data and proposing features

ootp3to6 · 05-25-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

You can thank Garlon & Spritze, they did a great job collecting data and proposing features

Thank you Garlon & Spritze. I am looking forward to trying a historical league
using OOTP 9.

ootp3to6 · 05-25-2008, 12:04 PM

When playing with historical leagues, is it better to play with all minor leagues (AAA,AA,A) or use ghost players?
I am going to experiment with an historical league using OOTP 8 before OOTP 9 arrives.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PSUColonel · 05-25-2008, 12:23 PM

Is this release mostly dedicated to historical play? May not be worth it for us modern era players.

Garlon · 05-25-2008, 06:01 PM

The new historical features and fixes will improve the realism in any season you play in history.

All of these extra calculations that track historical ratios like GB%, Double Play rates, SB Attempt rates, SB%, IP per Game Started, Retire According To History, etc all combine to have a dramatic impact on the accuracy of the simulation both in terms of the league as a whole and on a per player basis. The league Earned Run Average is about as perfect as possible now and that's due to all of these extra things, which impact scoring, being controlled properly.

Markus Heinsohn · 05-25-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Is this release mostly dedicated to historical play? May not be worth it for us modern era players.

Of course not

Please check the first newsletter: OOTP Developments Newsletter

kq76 · 05-25-2008, 06:08 PM

I remember OOTP in the past didn't calculate GB% quite like how MLB does or some such (see some Ronco posts). Does this news now mean that it does calculate it correctly now?

Garlon · 05-25-2008, 06:30 PM

OOTP's GB% refers to Groundball Outs/(Groundball Outs + Flyball Outs).

The MLB website also lists GO (Ground Outs) and AO (Airouts).

The historical data for GO and AO for 1871-2007 was compiled from the league fielding data, both for individual pitchers in the neutralized stats and the overall league totals (ratios) that OOTP matches when you simulate.

So kq76 - OOTP does exactly what it is needs to be doing.

Markus Heinsohn · 05-25-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I remember OOTP in the past didn't calculate GB% quite like how MLB does or some such (see some Ronco posts). Does this news now mean that it does calculate it correctly now?

The stats calculation is basically the same, it is just displayed differently. MLB does it as gb/fb ratio, which will result in numbers like 1.25. I prefer a % number, so the formula is gb * 100 / (gb + fb). It is the same basically, and does not influence the engine one bit if the calculation is different.

StyxNCa · 05-25-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

You can thank Garlon & Spritze, they did a great job collecting data and proposing features

Ok then. Thanks Garlon & Spritze!

kq76 · 05-25-2008, 06:44 PM

Oh, okay. Sorry, I couldn't remember exactly what the issue was. I tried a search, but couldn't quickly find it as gb% is too short a search term and RonCo's got too many good posts otherwise.

EDIT: Searching for "ground" from RonCo brings up some of the threads. I usually spell groundball without the space, but RonCo has spelled it both ways so I didn't see it before. I don't feel like arguing the point any further at the moment though.

RonCo · 05-26-2008, 01:35 PM

Unless the game calculates its results in a different flow, we'll always have quirky issues with ground ball percentages and what they really mean inside the guts of the game of baseball. But, since historical records don't allow for easy interpretation, it will be difficult to make the game work the way it needs to for historical environments if the results engine is changed the way I think it needs to be changed. I suggest this is ultimately the crossroad where the needs of the historical game diverge from the needs of the fictional game. (Realize all this is said without knowledge of v9 design changes, but assuming with near certainty that the basic results engine will not change. Realize also that Markus does not agree with my statement about the results engine, and that I'm just stating a position I'm not going to argue one way or the other beyond this post.)

It's been awhile since I read Garlon's approach, and I don't have access to them now. But as I recall, it's a solid approach to ensuring overall numbers are good but won't ensure individual numbers are "right" (whatever "right" might mean to you). Though I personally would not have gone down the path Markus has taken, I have a great deal of respect for Garlon's approaches, so I'm certain they will make the historical simmer feel the game is better.

Jah · 05-26-2008, 04:34 PM

Just wanted to thank Marcus for addressing historical issues this time around. I play strictly historically, but enjoy the variance in the game so things can unfold differently - I think the improvements in OOTP 9 are really propelling the historical aspects of the game into a different realm.

One quick question: I have a historical league I began with OOTP 2007 that I'd like to import into OOTP 9 - when I do this, will there be a way to use park- neutralized stats/ratings for subsequent seasons? I started my sim in 1901 and up to 1907 now and would like to take advantage of this option for future years, but perhaps it can only be used when you create a new league.

Thanks, also, for allowing us to go back to 1871...I'll probably create a new league just to see how things were way back then!

Markus Heinsohn · 05-26-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jah

Just wanted to thank Marcus for addressing historical issues this time around. I play strictly historically, but enjoy the variance in the game so things can unfold differently - I think the improvements in OOTP 9 are really propelling the historical aspects of the game into a different realm.

One quick question: I have a historical league I began with OOTP 2007 that I'd like to import into OOTP 9 - when I do this, will there be a way to use park- neutralized stats/ratings for subsequent seasons? I started my sim in 1901 and up to 1907 now and would like to take advantage of this option for future years, but perhaps it can only be used when you create a new league.

Thanks, also, for allowing us to go back to 1871...I'll probably create a new league just to see how things were way back then!

Sorry, these are only available for brand new leagues.

Jah · 05-26-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Sorry, these are only available for brand new leagues.

That's cool...kind of what I figured. Thanks again for all the great historical improvements - will be pre-ordering very soon.

Exodor · 05-26-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Sorry, these are only available for brand new leagues.

Is that also true for park factors?

If I import a OOTP8 Historial league can I have it automatically import the correct park factors?

Thanks!

Kelric · 05-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Ignore Exodor, he's a Royals fan. Doesn't know what is good for him.

Markus Heinsohn · 05-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodor

Is that also true for park factors?

If I import a OOTP8 Historial league can I have it automatically import the correct park factors?

Thanks!

The park factors will import properly when you advance to the next season

05-24-2008, 10:52 AM	#1
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	OOTP 9 Newsletter: Historicals! Our latest newsletter discusses the improvements for historical leagues in OOTP 9. Have a look here, and don't forget to pre-order OOTP 9 Newsletter Cheers, Markus

05-25-2008, 06:08 PM	#9
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,102	I remember OOTP in the past didn't calculate GB% quite like how MLB does or some such (see some Ronco posts). Does this news now mean that it does calculate it correctly now? __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

05-25-2008, 06:44 PM	#13
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,102	Oh, okay. Sorry, I couldn't remember exactly what the issue was. I tried a search, but couldn't quickly find it as gb% is too short a search term and RonCo's got too many good posts otherwise. EDIT: Searching for "ground" from RonCo brings up some of the threads. I usually spell groundball without the space, but RonCo has spelled it both ways so I didn't see it before. I don't feel like arguing the point any further at the moment though. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

05-26-2008, 01:35 PM	#14
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,512	Unless the game calculates its results in a different flow, we'll always have quirky issues with ground ball percentages and what they really mean inside the guts of the game of baseball. But, since historical records don't allow for easy interpretation, it will be difficult to make the game work the way it needs to for historical environments if the results engine is changed the way I think it needs to be changed. I suggest this is ultimately the crossroad where the needs of the historical game diverge from the needs of the fictional game. (Realize all this is said without knowledge of v9 design changes, but assuming with near certainty that the basic results engine will not change. Realize also that Markus does not agree with my statement about the results engine, and that I'm just stating a position I'm not going to argue one way or the other beyond this post.) It's been awhile since I read Garlon's approach, and I don't have access to them now. But as I recall, it's a solid approach to ensuring overall numbers are good but won't ensure individual numbers are "right" (whatever "right" might mean to you). Though I personally would not have gone down the path Markus has taken, I have a great deal of respect for Garlon's approaches, so I'm certain they will make the historical simmer feel the game is better. Last edited by RonCo; 05-26-2008 at 01:39 PM.

05-24-2008, 08:06 PM	#2
StyxNCa Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 3,136	This sounds TERRIFIC! I really like the idea of importing leagues prior to 1901 and park neutralization. Good job!!

05-25-2008, 06:23 AM	#3
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	You can thank Garlon & Spritze, they did a great job collecting data and proposing features

05-25-2008, 12:04 PM	#5
ootp3to6 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Haliburton,Ontario Canada Posts: 3,244	When playing with historical leagues, is it better to play with all minor leagues (AAA,AA,A) or use ghost players? I am going to experiment with an historical league using OOTP 8 before OOTP 9 arrives. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

05-25-2008, 12:23 PM	#6
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,144	Is this release mostly dedicated to historical play? May not be worth it for us modern era players.

05-25-2008, 06:01 PM	#7
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,386	The new historical features and fixes will improve the realism in any season you play in history. All of these extra calculations that track historical ratios like GB%, Double Play rates, SB Attempt rates, SB%, IP per Game Started, Retire According To History, etc all combine to have a dramatic impact on the accuracy of the simulation both in terms of the league as a whole and on a per player basis. The league Earned Run Average is about as perfect as possible now and that's due to all of these extra things, which impact scoring, being controlled properly.

05-25-2008, 06:30 PM	#10
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,386	OOTP's GB% refers to Groundball Outs/(Groundball Outs + Flyball Outs). The MLB website also lists GO (Ground Outs) and AO (Airouts). The historical data for GO and AO for 1871-2007 was compiled from the league fielding data, both for individual pitchers in the neutralized stats and the overall league totals (ratios) that OOTP matches when you simulate. So kq76 - OOTP does exactly what it is needs to be doing.

05-26-2008, 04:34 PM	#15
Jah Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 148	Just wanted to thank Marcus for addressing historical issues this time around. I play strictly historically, but enjoy the variance in the game so things can unfold differently - I think the improvements in OOTP 9 are really propelling the historical aspects of the game into a different realm. One quick question: I have a historical league I began with OOTP 2007 that I'd like to import into OOTP 9 - when I do this, will there be a way to use park- neutralized stats/ratings for subsequent seasons? I started my sim in 1901 and up to 1907 now and would like to take advantage of this option for future years, but perhaps it can only be used when you create a new league. Thanks, also, for allowing us to go back to 1871...I'll probably create a new league just to see how things were way back then!

05-26-2008, 06:24 PM	#19
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Ignore Exodor, he's a Royals fan. Doesn't know what is good for him.