Womens leagues

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

I wouldn't want a softball game.

Cop-out answer

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Cop-out answer

No, just keeping it real.

[galvac]

It amazes me that everyone seems to love how customizable the game is, but if you ask for something to be added to help make it easier to run a league for women they are all against it. Wanting to be able to have separate name files and pbp for each league could be useful for all men leagues also. Say you wanted to run MLB 1901 up and have the Negro League running also. Would it not be nice to have them each have there own name files?

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

On the subject of the sexism argument, would you want to be able to make men's leagues in a softball game?

There are already. Thousands around the world. Some would say they are more popular than woman's softball.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Wish Gastric Reflux was around. I am sure he would have some interesting thoughts on this topic.

Yeah, where is GR, anyway? I am trying my best to bring his POV to this situation but I am afraid I am a mere simulacrum.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by galvac

It amazes me that everyone seems to love how customizable the game is, but if you ask for something to be added to help make it easier to run a league for women they are all against it. Wanting to be able to have separate name files and pbp for each league could be useful for all men leagues also. Say you wanted to run MLB 1901 up and have the Negro League running also. Would it not be nice to have them each have there own name files?

But if you read the thread you can see why the vast majority opposes, no?
It has to do with time taken to make a feature vs how many will ever use it. Which of course translates into time taken away from features that the vast majority will use.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Sweed

But if you read the thread you can see why the vast majority opposes, no?
It has to do with time taken to make a feature vs how many will ever use it. Which of course translates into time taken away from features that the vast majority will use.

What major new features are being added really?

Although as I said, why not just let us use different name & Play by play files for each league in a universe, and let us play without facegen at all.

[eborix]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

What major new features are being added really?

Although as I said, why not just let us use different name & Play by play files for each league in a universe, and let us play without facegen at all.

I'm pretty sure that if enough people asked for it, it would get included, But I personally havent seen very many different people request it.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I'm not asking for this for ootp 9, coz it's clearly too late, but wouldn't it be possible to have a flag on a players page that says whether they are a man or a woman, thus allowing us to do women's or mixed leagues easier than we can now.

In the league setup menu we could have a drop down menu that says men only, women only or mixed.

This would let us have a men's and women's league in the same universe.

Of course, you'd need more txt files, one for men, one for women, but oh well.

This is ridiculous. I have never seen a more "strange" fan base than I have for this game. Is it because baseball fans are total nerds? I mean between this, hobbit leagues and all the other crap people want to do with this game I sometimes just can't believe my eyes. I have never seen requests like these in ANY other gaming community like FOF, FM, Draft Day, or anywhere else. This is just over the damn top here. This is a damn baseball game!!!! Not for hobbits, not for women, not for unicorns or anything else!!!

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

What major new features are being added really?

Although as I said, why not just let us use different name & Play by play files for each league in a universe, and let us play without facegen at all.

What about player creation? Or do you have the average woman 6 feet tall and 185lbs?

Who's going to make the gender match in all of the text files? What about mixed leagues?

As far as names I think IF you got a female flag on the player card that you wouldn't need a separate name file. You would add female first names to the current file and them make them only available to female players.

Would you be happy with the men's development model being used for females? Aging curves would be the same? If different, how, why, and what is the research based on? Because you can bet someone in the less than 1% of users that do a women's league is going say it's not the same for women and wants it fixed. So, do we say no to the 1 in 10,000 that wants a serparate female development model? If so why? What about the guy that now wants mixed leagues? A third pbp file? Do we tell him no? If so why?

Maybe you could get together a group from here to do a group project and make a name file and a pbp file with genders changed. A lot of this is already done by members of the community on a volunteer basis so your effort would be no different. With this in hand you could turn off face gen, swap your name and pbp files into the game and play a women's league. Then if you want a mixed league you will need a third file for that. Maybe you don't but someone will.

Then submit these files to Markus showing your commitment to wanting this in OOTP letting him know you only need flags for females and some sort of option in the player creation for average height and weight. Along of course with the ability to swap text files without having to do so out of game or for a more complete world let them play side by side.

Adding this is so much more than name files and pbp. Once in as a "simple" thing it has to be supported and upgraded for each version. Again, for more than likely less than 1% of users. Other than letting the game use two or three user created pbp files it's simply not worth the time from an economic standpoint IMHO, and if done at all, should be left to the mod community.

[Cryomaniac]

The fact is we can edit development curves, etc. now, so it would be a matter of duplicating them, one set for men, one for women.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

The fact is we can edit development curves, etc. now, so it would be a matter of duplicating them, one set for men, one for women.

And that explanation works when unpaid people are modding the game.

If it's an included feature of the game someone is going to buy the game and expect default to be in a realistic range and after paying for the game has every right to expect it. So who is doing the research for the official in game women's development file? Where is the research coming from? Is this taking away from development time from something that more than 1% of the users will actually use?

And that is just one of the issues that I asked about and I didn't even scratch the surface of things that will come up once it is officially included in the game and has to be officially supported. It's a large can of worms that shouldn't be opened. The headaches it will cost are simply not worth it.

Sure, you are well within your rights to ask Markus for any feature you want.
I'm not Markus, who knows maybe he'll like the idea and put it in. I hope he doesn't, just my opinion. I don't want to come off as saying you shouldn't ask and hope you don't think that is what I am doing. But we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[BoofBonser26]

I'd use this feature.

Wasn't it in an older version of OOTP anyway?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

The fact is we can edit development curves, etc. now, so it would be a matter of duplicating them, one set for men, one for women.

just stop it...please. I mean really

[BoofBonser26]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

just stop it...please. I mean really

Someone wants to play the game differently than I do! Mock them!

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Would you be happy with the men's development model being used for females? Aging curves would be the same? If different, how, why, and what is the research based on? Because you can bet someone in the less than 1% of users that do a women's league is going say it's not the same for women and wants it fixed. So, do we say no to the 1 in 10,000 that wants a serparate female development model? If so why? What about the guy that now wants mixed leagues? A third pbp file? Do we tell him no? If so why?

The only way you would lock yourself into having to support the "feature" and deal with a women's development model is if you marketed the game saying "You can even run women's leagues with a completely accurate development model!"

If you don't bother mentioning it at all in marketing, or mention only that it is possible to have women show up as players, or say that you can make a league using only women..... you don't have to support anything unless you promise some special development model. Baseball Mogul used to have the ability (I don't know if it still does) and it was nothing special other than having women players.

If it's added, just put the note in that there is nothing special about women... there isn't seperate code to control them at all, it's just the name and other superficial pieces that are different.

It wouldn't be that difficult to have an option in setup that said it was a women's league... then it grabs different height and weight pieces to model it and it goes.
A pbp file and a name file that has been made by one of the modders would need to be downloaded... the game associates those files to the league and all is done. Any idiosyncrasy unfortunately must be dealt with by the user... but the option is there to make your life easier. The end... it's not that hard.

The pieces you won't be able to do anything about is the hard code text and facegen. It's hard enough getting the hard code text fixed when there's a problem with it in MEN's leagues... so it's not going to happen.
There's no need to waste programming time on facegen for women... picture files for women could also be up to modders. There's no reason to think that this would become a feature that has to be supported beyond giving the option with the caveat that there is nothing different, it's just there to allow the superficial changes to help you if you want it.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

Someone wants to play the game differently than I do! Mock them!

the entire premise of this is ridiculous

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the entire premise of this is ridiculous

I love how just because it's not something one person would do, that person calls it ridiculous. It's nice to know that your viewpoint is the only one that matters in the world. Good for future reference. I'm not saying I care at all about adding the ability to have a women's league, but just because I more than likely would never use such a thing doesn't give me the right to to insult people that would want to use it. The fact is, there has been women's professional baseball in the past and is still going going on a small level. If somebody wants to create a full baseball history and include everybody that played, regardless of gender, why insult them? It's childish.

[PSUColonel]

I am not insulting...simply stating the fact that adding such a feature would be a waste of time and resources and hence ridiculous.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am not insulting...simply stating the fact that adding such a feature would be a waste of time and resources and hence ridiculous.

So is the idea of having 8 different inactive lists... but that thread doesn't have any posts saying that.

Just for note, I wouldn't play with women's leagues. It was fun in Mogul, but Mogul was a pathetic game.