Small OOTP 9 Update

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Last time I pre-ordered, I got screwed with a P.O.S. game.

You don't have to bring Baseball Mogul into this.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Antonin

You just can't accurately compare the two. Different sports. Different types of games for different types of gamers. For one thing, the historical aspect of OOTP makes it an entirely different animal.

As for the deeper gameplay...I have played every version of SI's game since CM 01/02, and I have always thought the AI cheats and that 'tactics' really do not work, and that the overwhelming importance of 'tactics' over player quality is far from realistic. Many people on the SI boards agree.


On the other hand, I always have fun with OOTB baseball.

The AI certainly doesnt cheat. And a board full of impatient adolescents whining because they dont have first the imagination and then the patience to work through the tactics doesnt mean that they arent there or the AI is cheating. It takes some experimentation at first to find the tactics that maximize a teams performance. IRL, a very good tactical coach can win consistently with somewhat inferior players.

I do have fun with FM/WWSM, but the game is not realistic, can be an exercise in frustration and often feels like work, like you are not really running a soccer team but looking for ways to exploit weaknesses in the AI.

This is what real life coaching is. To be a success in the game you have to play close attention to details. If you are lazy, you just wont win. And a coaches job is to find weaknesses in their opponents. Since different AI teams use different tactics there is no one (super) tactic that beat the AI. In fact, the game rewards tactical consistency.

I love OOTP but OOTP is NOT a deep hard-core managing simulation. Its made for simmers that like to pour over stats. It doesnt have the small features that managers must deal with..like training schedules, deep financial modeling and the ability to choose how teams playing style and tactics.

[jbmagic]

Will there be a manual for the game?

Will it work with Window Vista?

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Will there be a manual for the game?

Will it work with Window Vista?

Yes and yes. Just like 8....

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Last time I pre-ordered, I got screwed with a P.O.S. game. With a price of $40, it's yet again unlikely that I'll be buying this version. I can't believe the price tag on this sucker.

Only way I'll get suckered in again is if there is a nice demo or some really, really nice looking screen shots that show me a much improved interface and playable game. Otherwise looks like another OOTP-less year.

I guess I just gotta work on getting OOTP5 playable on a Mac.

Here's my suggestion then:

Don't pre-order.

No, you're not going to get the lower price for the pre-order. The pre-order is basically Markus saying "if you're willing to buy this sight unseen and pay for my rent before the game releases in April/May/June/whenever, I will give you a premium". In exchange for the premium, you won't get to demo it before you buy and indeed won't be totally sure of all that's in it before you put the money down. If you are not confident in Markus' ability to create a game that's worth an album and a half to you, then wait for it to come out for everyone else.

On the other hand, it doesn't do a lick of good to ask Markus to give you all the benefit of a regular-season order but the price of a pre-order. Markus has always seemed to me to be a nice guy, but he's also running a business. It's not in his best interests to do what you want him to do. It is in his best interests to work on completing the game and not issuing promises that may end up being empty ones by the time beta is complete.

[Syd Thrift]

dola,

Originally Posted by bababui

I love OOTP but OOTP is NOT a deep hard-core managing simulation. Its made for simmers that like to pour over stats. It doesnt have the small features that managers must deal with..like training schedules, deep financial modeling and the ability to choose how teams playing style and tactics.

Okay, but much of this is the difference between baseball and soccer. Baseball has a finite number of plays that every team uses, the only difference being the frequency of their use. As such, teams end up devoting much the same amount of time to drills on those plays. Maybe it would be a nice little wrinkle to tell the Seattle Mariners to devote more time to bunt practice than the Colorado Rockies, but that's not a really huge feature I'm clamoring for.

I have to say that I agree with treedom: WWSM is really nice at adding little touches I would turn off 30 minutes into an OOTP session if they were in it. Maybe once Markus implements that physics-based engine it will be fun to experiment with 5-man infields and Boudreau shifts, but for now, forget about that crap. Just give me baseball.

I do like the injury dilemmas WWSM presents to you. Do I make this guy take a shot and play hurt, or do I lay him up? It'd be cool if OOTP added that. I also hope that finances are improved. OOTP is never going to be just like WWSM because it models a different game with different emphases.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

dola,Okay, but much of this is the difference between baseball and soccer. Baseball has a finite number of plays that every team uses, the only difference being the frequency of their use. As such, teams end up devoting much the same amount of time to drills on those plays. Maybe it would be a nice little wrinkle to tell the Seattle Mariners to devote more time to bunt practice than the Colorado Rockies, but that's not a really huge feature I'm clamoring for.

I have to say that I agree with treedom: WWSM is really nice at adding little touches I would turn off 30 minutes into an OOTP session if they were in it. Maybe once Markus implements that physics-based engine it will be fun to experiment with 5-man infields and Boudreau shifts, but for now, forget about that crap. Just give me baseball.

I do like the injury dilemmas WWSM presents to you. Do I make this guy take a shot and play hurt, or do I lay him up? It'd be cool if OOTP added that. I also hope that finances are improved. OOTP is never going to be just like WWSM because it models a different game with different emphases.

I pretty much agree.

I would like to see, as in WWSM, more factors rated for on OOTP players, especially factoer involving effort, motivation and discipline. I think more uncertainty and complexity would make things a little harder for managers to assemble a winning team and would make the game more fun.

[silvam14]

For people that spend as much time on these forums to complain about paying $40 make no sense to me.

If you don't buy it because you don't like the interface fine, but what price would people pay for it and feel it is a good value? probably nothing. It could be free and people would complain because it might take them hours to download it on their dial-up connection.

Sorry for the rant. Just gearing up for that time of year again

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Here's my suggestion then:

Don't pre-order.

No, you're not going to get the lower price for the pre-order. The pre-order is basically Markus saying "if you're willing to buy this sight unseen and pay for my rent before the game releases in April/May/June/whenever, I will give you a premium". In exchange for the premium, you won't get to demo it before you buy and indeed won't be totally sure of all that's in it before you put the money down. If you are not confident in Markus' ability to create a game that's worth an album and a half to you, then wait for it to come out for everyone else.

On the other hand, it doesn't do a lick of good to ask Markus to give you all the benefit of a regular-season order but the price of a pre-order. Markus has always seemed to me to be a nice guy, but he's also running a business. It's not in his best interests to do what you want him to do. It is in his best interests to work on completing the game and not issuing promises that may end up being empty ones by the time beta is complete.

It's like walking into a dealership and they say, "we'll give you the car for $25,000 based on the couple pictures you've seen and this list of features. but if you want to test drive it, you lose the offer and now have to pay $40,000."

Are you really going to to take them up on the offer of $25,000? I sure would doubt it.

[MorseMoose]

If I see things that I like, I might just pre-order and then play it as a Full Version demo. Then if it doesn't suit me, ask for a refund.

[NCBeachBum]

And posting that now so it can be quoted and bumped later was part one of your brilliant plan?

[RANGER11JP]

Gentlemen:

It has come to my attention that there is a $40.00 pricetag pending for the next edition of this game. I find that to be ridiculous. I look around these fourms and see the involvement of everyone and know the enjoyment I have gotten from this game and I say NO!!!! $40.00 is not enough!!! The countless hours, the baseball history, the what-if scenarios, the pennant races, the fun!!! Are you mad? I think we should look at the price of a good box seat for one real life baseball game and consider ourselves lucky for a $100.00 pricetag. That alone might keep the whining riff-raff out!

Just my opinion. But I would like to see better history for the coaches. I think the idea of tweaking a lot of the current features is a good one.
Some of the features don't work quite right, and would be great if they did.

JP

[BaseballMan]

The $40.00 doesnt bother me. Its what about six dollars more than last year.
If you had no problem spending $34.00 on a game last year, i dont see how $40.00 can be a problem. Its not like its the first version. I mean hasnt Markus and OOTP earned a pay raise after all this time? Although i know its just to keep the Euro & American dollar on the same scale. If Markus was asking for $60.00 i could see the complaining. And even if there was no demo i beleive there are a lot of members here that can and will give you a fair opinion of the game.
We're not a Madden community that blindly praises every version. The majority
might rave about 6.5 or 2007/ootp8 and yet try to forget about ootp 2006.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

With a price of $40, it's yet again unlikely that I'll be buying this version. I can't believe the price tag on this sucker.

Markus has a valid point though in regards to the U.S. dollar-Euro relative value. Check out how much the USD has declined against the Euro over the last twelve months. And not just against the Euro, it's fallen against the Canadian dollar as well as other currencies.

You can expect to see all manner of products imported into the U.S. costing more due to the decline of the USD.

[David Watts]

I love this game. In the long run, I will buy the new version. That being said, we reap what we _________. C'mon, we play a game that brags on how you don't have to purchase season disks. Hell, now the game even downloads with the lahman database. We can play with fictional players. Career mode rules.

My point, if the creator of this game ever created a bug free version, he would be out of business. It is better to add new features than fix existing problems. Fixing existing problems decreases cashflow. Creating the perfect game leads to buyer satisfaction and thus less demand for a new version. Once problems become way too big to fix, make a drastic change to the game engine.. ... Thus you buy more time, and sell more copies.

Sound and graphics are just the type of camoflage this game needs. Hell, a game with all these features should cost $4,999.00 compared to _______. Who cares if said features actually work. When the sound feature starts causing the game to crash, 2010 will be the answer.

Again, I have purchased every version since Season Ticket 2. I love the game, but often question why I am such a sucker.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

If I see things that I like, I might just pre-order and then play it as a Full Version demo. Then if it doesn't suit me, ask for a refund.

You never did purchase v2007, did you? Still basing all your opinions on the first v2006 iteration?

[kagnew35]

Why all the whining??? If you don't want a discount, wait for the demo. If you aren't satisfied with the new version, don't buy it. All this whining andd crying before we know whats coming out is idiocy. If Markus was sellin a bagful of hundred dollar bills for 10 bucks, some would find fault.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

If I see things that I like, I might just pre-order and then play it as a Full Version demo. Then if it doesn't suit me, ask for a refund.

Yeah, I don't think that was one of the offers mentioned. Either you pre-order or you don't. You don't generally get to return software. When you pre-order a game at Gamestop and then it turns out that it's a dud, do you get your money back then as well? I'll give you a hint: no.

And by the way, car dealerships offer pre-orders on cars that aren't out yet quite often. Did you think that analogy through?

[NCBeachBum]

Originally Posted by David Watts

That being said, we reap what we _________.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you didn't type sow.

Originally Posted by David Watts

sucker.

Hey! When did sucker come off of the swear filter?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Sorry to say Mr Heinsohn, but WWSM like Football Manager does pay for licenses in many leagues as well as a Fifpro license

Well, I learn something new every day Sorry for the confusion Mr. Duffy