News Bulletin: Village Idiot Uses VORP!

[koohead]

okay, ok. we've had our fun. Time for me to stick up for my fellow Yankees fan.

Anyway, back on topic for a sec. I was thinking of this post and use of VORP and began questioning how it transalated into being popular. I know you are using it as a tie breaker to reflect logetivity and impact to the league, but does statistical performance always transalate into more popularity? meaning just because someone performs better in the stat sheets does that person become more popular than say a lesser performing guy? I can totally understand the use of popularity plus VORP to indicate impact on the league or something, but not sure if popular is the best name for it. Maybe like a Sportsman of the Year award or Lifetime Achievement or something like that. True, VORP doesn't really translate into off field performance, and it wouldn't make sense to award a lifetime acheivement award more than once. i'm just having a hard time explaining to myself how VORP is an indication of popularity. Can you help?
My interest in this is because I think VORP can be a helpful stat for "something", and seeing that I have yet to define a custom award myself I'm open to opinions suggestions and comments.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I am hard at work deriving the most reliable indicator of a player's popularity. I started off calling it Popularity Over Replacement Players, or PORP.

Surely this should be an over-riding stat rather than over a replacement player. So it should be Popularity Over Other Players, or POOP.

And how do you choose a replacement player? There must be many players who don't even reach that level... maybe they should have a "Couldn't Replace A Player" measure...

[Dagrims]

The most popular players on the POOP scale you mention score highest in four critical characteristics: Selflessness, Humility, Integrity, and Teamwork.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Bonedwarf

Seriously, your screenshots just opened a new world to me. I didn't even realise you could just drag and drop award winners. I've not fiddled with OOTP 8 much so far. (Got as far as setting my league up. Have been stuck waiting to find the time and inclination to pick team logos.) I get the feeling there is a huge amount of stuff I don't know about in the game.

Well, as I mentioned in the OP, I started thinking about the custom award only when I began to select my own winners rather than letting the VORP machine spit them out.

See, that's where I go wrong, using a term like "VORP machine." Hey, you can still use VORP if you want to when manually selecting your winners! I just object to something being automatically done for me based on a sabermetric parameter that is not precisely defined, either IRL or IOOTP. Although I do share my opinion here in support of others who may feel the same way, I do not advocate the elimination of sabermetrics from baseball or OOTP. To each his own.

To get back to your post, here's the happy by-product of thinking outside the box with my game: In addition to coming up with MPP, a custom award that I am quite happy with, I also find my game immersion has been enhanced. Why? Because I have to sit down for a half-hour and go through the player season performances in order to pick out the winners myself. Hence, I find myself getting to know more of them, rather than just the winners that appeared automatically.

Bon voyage (of discovery), Bonedwarf.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by koohead

I was thinking of this post and use of VORP and began questioning how it transalated into being popular. I know you are using it as a tie breaker to reflect logetivity and impact to the league, but does statistical performance always transalate into more popularity? meaning just because someone performs better in the stat sheets does that person become more popular than say a lesser performing guy? I can totally understand the use of popularity plus VORP to indicate impact on the league or something, but not sure if popular is the best name for it. Maybe like a Sportsman of the Year award or Lifetime Achievement or something like that. True, VORP doesn't really translate into off field performance, and it wouldn't make sense to award a lifetime acheivement award more than once. i'm just having a hard time explaining to myself how VORP is an indication of popularity. Can you help?
My interest in this is because I think VORP can be a helpful stat for "something", and seeing that I have yet to define a custom award myself I'm open to opinions suggestions and comments.

Let's see if I can clarify my own thinking about MPP.

First of all, realize that of all the awards in my game, and throw in the HoF, I am viewing this one as the most subjective. So, I am quite comfortable with the game's sometimes arbitrary (a term that I usually use disparagingly in connection with OOTP) designation of popularity. Witness the guy in the SL2 screen print that one poster pointed out: a one-star mediocre player who is Very Popular. Popularity is not completely correlated with talent and performance, as we have seen.

But I don't want somebody like that winning the MPP, of course. That's where VORP comes in. I acknowledge that VORP, however it works, does measure the player's value to the game, it accumulates over time, and it is applicable in roughly the same proportion to hitter and pitcher. So, I use career VORP for hitting and pitching to pick out the still extremely popular player who has amassed the most VORP points that indicate his total contribution to the sport.

Your two ideas, Sportsman of the Year award or Lifetime Achievement, miss the mark for two different reasons. My MPP is ongoing career, not just "of the Year," and it is more like a championship trophy to be held onto until yielded to the next winner rather than a one-time "Lifetime" award.

As I mentioned in OP, I will see the same guys winning the award (or better, retaining the award) year after year until their popularity slips, perhaps from staying around too long, or they retire. That is what I want to see, however. Who are the Hank Aarons (one from each subleague) of my game? Players so respected by fans, coaches, and players for their achievements that they are still extremely popular?

[koohead]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Your two ideas, Sportsman of the Year award or Lifetime Achievement, miss the mark for two different reasons. My MPP is ongoing career, not just "of the Year," and it is more like a championship trophy to be held onto until yielded to the next winner rather than a one-time "Lifetime" award.

I think that clarifiies it for me since that was where I couldn't understand how the career VORP stat measurement was helping you with popularity. Thanks for explaining. Makes much more sense now.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

Surely this should be an over-riding stat rather than over a replacement player. So it should be Popularity Over Other Players, or POOP.

And how do you choose a replacement player? There must be many players who don't even reach that level... maybe they should have a "Couldn't Replace A Player" measure...

This should be a real award... maybe an ESPN award. I want to watch it live as they say "And this years POOP goes to..." It's sure to be a controversial decision... players campaigning for it and everything.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by tysok

This should be a real award... maybe an ESPN award. I want to watch it live as they say "And this years POOP goes to..." It's sure to be a controversial decision... players campaigning for it and everything.

Er, I'll stick with MPP if you don't mind.

[johnnybourbon]

BUMP

how do you get the VORP columns into the award selection view? I can't find that column to be chosen in the "view-customize..." option.
I just finished my first season and just winged it on my Most Popular Player award...I didn't have many nationally extremely popular players.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

BUMP

how do you get the VORP columns into the award selection view? I can't find that column to be chosen in the "view-customize..." option.
I just finished my first season and just winged it on my Most Popular Player award...I didn't have many nationally extremely popular players.

Hey, Johnny, thanks for your interest.

Here's how I did it:

1. Go to a screen like Player Search or Show All Players.
   
2. Select the default View called Popularity Info.
   
3. Click the View button again and select Customize.
   
4. In the Customize View window, go to the General tab and deselect everything except Position, Name, Age, National and Local Popularity, and Overall and Potential Ratings.
   
5. Next, go to the Batting Stats tab. Click (only) VORP.
   
6. Next, go to the Pitching Stats tab. Click (only) VORP.
   
7. Now click OK to accept the view.
   
8. Click View one more time and select Save View. Name it Most Popular Player.

Now you have a saved MPP view for doing the job.

IMPORTANT: The split should be Career stats (VORP). Now you can filter by leagues, sort for highest National Popularity, and choose the players who have the highest career VORP.

Again, this is just a subjective guide for this award, not an absolute. It's about trying to honor the reigning kings of popularity who have contributed the most to the game over their careers, and the same players will continue to reign until they decline (causing popularity to fall off) or they retire.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by koohead

this thread should have included a poll

1. 98 is an idiot
2. popularity is a bunch of malarkey
3. Vorp is still a bunch of malarkey
4. All of the above

4

[thehatfield]

Originally Posted by bp_

When is OOTP going to get PORP and PORPOISE in the game? I'm sick of waiting for it frankly.

[ctorg]

I'd like to see it have SSIDRU ratings for all players.

[Syd Thrift]

I want to see POOP ratings for players as well, although not necessarily the POOP rating you all are talking about.

[Gastric ReFlux]

Hold on here. I think we're getting distracted from important stuff like full hobbit league support.

[Syd Thrift]

I submitted a hobbit last name file to the beta team last year but they said they "didn't have room". Which is hogwash, of course, because when you have a hobbit last name file you make room, perhaps by getting rid of the Latino last name file (just a suggestion).

[johnnybourbon]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Hey, Johnny, thanks for your interest.

Here's how I did it:

1. Go to a screen like Player Search or Show All Players.
   
2. Select the default View called Popularity Info.
   
3. Click the View button again and select Customize.
   
4. In the Customize View window, go to the General tab and deselect everything except Position, Name, Age, National and Local Popularity, and Overall and Potential Ratings.
   
5. Next, go to the Batting Stats tab. Click (only) VORP.
   
6. Next, go to the Pitching Stats tab. Click (only) VORP.
   
7. Now click OK to accept the view.
   
8. Click View one more time and select Save View. Name it Most Popular Player.

Now you have a saved MPP view for doing the job.

IMPORTANT: The split should be Career stats (VORP). Now you can filter by leagues, sort for highest National Popularity, and choose the players who have the highest career VORP.

Again, this is just a subjective guide for this award, not an absolute. It's about trying to honor the reigning kings of popularity who have contributed the most to the game over their careers, and the same players will continue to reign until they decline (causing popularity to fall off) or they retire.

I appreciate it '98.
I like having an award that doesnt really duplicate any major award thats out there right now.