Is Boxing Dead? (warning some Klitschko spoilers here)

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by Mr Big

Tank Abbott is a typical example of the fact that it takes much more than just being a big tough guy to succeed at MMA. I can see fellow pro wrestler Brock Lesnar following in his footsteps and winding up as a sub .500 fighter in the cage.

I don't really agree with what you wrote about Lesnar...yet But I'm going to save it for another thread and let this one go back on topic again.

By the way...I agree with the rest of your post 100%.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

No, not at all. Tank is a bum...a shot, 15 year over the hill bar room brawler. He wasn't good 15 years ago and he isn't any better now. I'll admit that he is a tough sob though.

Tank is 10-14 in MMA and has won 1 match in the last 10 years.

Yeah, but he had that one "fight" against Royce Gracie (or was it Ken Shamrock) where they just walked around each other for 20 minutes. Boy, was that fun! MMA IS THE BESTORZ!!!!

Seriously, there is one huge point as to why MMA is able to be televised whereas boxing isn't so much (outside of Friday Night Fights, HBO, and whatever Vs. decides to show). MMA right now is basically run by two organizations that handle all the important fights, book the fighters, run the events, and so on. With boxing, every fighter essentially has his own agency and can do what he pleases. It is in an individual champion's best interest to have his fights on PPV - he makes a lot more money that way. It is in boxing's best interest for these guys to fight on live television, even if a major network won't pick them up (and nobody would, at least at first - at best, Showtime or HBO would agree to carry them on one of their non-PPV channels).

What boxing sorely needs is a union. That would also clean up a lot of the corruption (yeah, that's a strange thing to say, a union cleaning up corruption, but one thing a good union gets you are basic rights as to what sort of licenses a promoter has to have before he can sign you and so on - look at the other pro sports unions as examples)(local musician's unions are an even better analogy - most cities they're pretty inconsequential, but in I think Kansas City for example it's a great way to get health care and so on), but most of all it would provide a single group that television (and, for that matter, Internet sites and radio) can interact with. You'd still probably have guys saying "I got mine now, screw this, I'm splitting with the union and going to pay per view", but if you got a couple of the better alphabet orgs to run closed shops, this would probably fall by the wayside.

[Tommysixfingers]

Yeah, but he had that one "fight" against Royce Gracie (or was it Ken Shamrock) where they just walked around each other for 20 minutes. Boy, was that fun! MMA IS THE BESTORZ!!!!

Tank never "fought" any of the two.

You are not making much sense her Syd. I guess there has never been a dull boxing match? John Ruiz anyone. Somewhere in the world there is a MMA fan that doesn't know jack **** about boxing and saying "Yeah but he had that one "fight" against Mike Tyson (or was it Larry Holmes) where they just clinched eachother for 12 rounds. Boy that was fun! BOXING IS THE BESTORZ!!!!

Seriously, my only problem with some of the posters here that don't like MMA is that they haven't got their facts straights 9 times out of 10. I'm not a huge MMA fan myself because I'm not really fond of the wrestling and ground game. I don't think that it is very exciting to watch compared to Kickboxing or Boxing. I have no problems with people not liking MMA but the critiscism must be relevant imo.

I have seen an estimated total of 45-60 minutes of baseball in my life and I don't know anything about it besides the obvious, the aim is to hit the ball with the bat and then the opposite team tries to catch it. I have no idea of what it takes to be a ballplayer. I don't know how they train. I know the names of some players with higher profile but that is pretty much it. What I do know is that I find it pretty boring to be honest and don't want to learn more about the game because it doesn't interest me. I don't like it! If I came in here with my vast knowledge and told you everything that was wrong with baseball, what validity would I have in your eyes? Could I really back my opinions up?

- "Why don't you like baseball Tommy?"
- "Nah, it's boring"
- "Why do you think that?"
- "It's slow. It can't take much skill to hit that ball with that stick-thingy and the players look fat. They obviously don't do much training. And by the way, I think that tennisplayers are better at hitting balls with obstacles"

Would people agree or would I get a couple of comments thrown back at me?

I appologize for taking this thread Off-topic again.

Edit: Other than that you're last post makes sense Syd.

[Syd Thrift]

There was an exhibition match in one of the early UFCs where he fought... some other MMA founding father. I could have sworn it was Royce Gracie but I guess I'm wrong. And when I say they walked around each other for 20 minutes, I mean they literally walked around each other for 20 minutes. I'm not talking about the kind of walking around each other provided by, say, Wlad and Iggo where they actually did try to throw punches. I mean, they literally did nothing but circle each other and wait for the other to make a move so they could counter it. There was not a single punch, kick, or dirty look thrown until the 17th minute of the fight. If it was boxing, the fight would have been called 6 minutes in for lack of desire and the boxers' licenses would have been revoked.

I know that that is not indicative of MMA (FWIW, I enjoy watching it from time to time as well; as a former HS wrestler, it's a little like boxing for me only I have a little more personal experience with what some of the holds feel like), but the name Tank Abbott just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Looking it up in wikipedia, it might have been Dan Severn but I'm not sure.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

I'm not a huge MMA fan myself because I'm not really fond of the wrestling and ground game.

I personally prefer to see a well-executed ground fight than a striking match in MMA. Watching two skilled jiujitsu practitioners do what they do can be an awesome thing. Striking in MMA tends to be sloppy, though, and while it's exciting in a carnal way, there's rarely as much skill to it as there is in a good submission grappling match. Not to say there aren't excellent strikers in MMA. Anderson Silva is great to watch, for instance. But overall striking in MMA lacks finesse.

Now, that's not to say that I like lay-and-pray matches. No one likes those. But once you've wrapped your head around the basics of BJJ, ground fighting can be very exciting.

Back to a point made earlier in the thread, I don't know why there's so much MMA vs boxing sentiment. They're different sports. It's like railing against soccer as a hockey fan. Just because the goal in both is to put an object past a goalie doesn't mean they can't both coexist.

Boxing is a great sport with a rich history and an underlying theme of brutality. MMA is a relatively new sport with an underlying theme of brutality. I can, and do, enjoy both, and I hope that both grow and thrive.

[mh2365]

MMA fighters are just guys who used to fight in bars ... most of them have killed small animals in the past ... or they are taking out their frustration of not being able to rape furry woodland creatures by fighting. Plus they are all addicted to Flintstones Vitamins and Smurf Porn.


^ just trying to live up to Tommy's expectations of guys who don't like the MMA

edit - forgot to say anyone who gets down on the ground and wrestles another guy in spandex is obviously gaye!

[hamed]

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

I'm not a huge MMA fan myself because I'm not really fond of the wrestling and ground game. I don't think that it is very exciting to watch compared to Kickboxing or Boxing.

I agree 100%!

BTW, anyone read about another MMA guy who's called out Kimbo? I read it somewhere but now can't find the article. I'd never heard of the guy & my brother didn't see the article but wondered who it was?

[Bogie]

Did you watch the fight last night...if he is the best HW then at least the heavyweight divison is on serious life support.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by hamed

I agree 100%!

BTW, anyone read about another MMA guy who's called out Kimbo? I read it somewhere but now can't find the article. I'd never heard of the guy & my brother didn't see the article but wondered who it was?

Not sure, he's the "big talk" of MMA right now and isn't very skilled yet, so every low level guy wants a shot at him. It looks good.

The ones I remember recently are Paul Buentello(Bad fight for Kimbo at this point I think), and Gary Goodridge(Another guy who is pretty washed up, but was a tough one back in the day. Decent fight for Kimbo)

I think comparing Lesnar to Tank is a bit unfair for a couple reasons. Firstly Tank has been around for a long time and has made no attempt to expand his game and really make any sort of improvements. I also think if Brock is losing the majority of his fights he won't stick around, he'll move on to something else. I'm not sure what his attention span will be with MMA.

I'll ignore the usual MMA bashing, because what's the point?

I'm very excited about this weekends UFC card. Henderson vs. Silva will be a war, should be a great fight.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Did you watch the fight last night...if he is the best HW then at least the heavyweight divison is on serious life support.

So like the announcers said if you saw Lennox's fight with Zeljko Mavrovic ... you would have said the same thing after that fight? So on an off night he blew out a so-so Top 10-15 HW ... yeah he is freaking horrible.

[Bogie]

Dude,
What I am saying is that was boring and if thats the best we have in the HW divison then winning in the current HW ranks really dosn't mean much. The HW of today do more holding, grabbing and standing around with no action than the fighters of the past. Just no action...its boring! IMO

[meade95]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

What boxing sorely needs is a union. That would also clean up a lot of the corruption (yeah, that's a strange thing to say, a union cleaning up corruption, but one thing a good union gets you are basic rights as to what sort of licenses a promoter has to have before he can sign you and so on -

The worst idea on this forum in a long time - Issue has already been discussed several times previously - I don't have the energy nor time currently to break down to repeat what a terrible / short-sighted notion such is - The idea of a Union or Gov't back commission to help boxing is just foolishness -

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by mh2365

So like the announcers said if you saw Lennox's fight with Zeljko Mavrovic ... you would have said the same thing after that fight? So on an off night he blew out a so-so Top 10-15 HW ... yeah he is freaking horrible.

Klitschko keeps beating the guys that are put in front of him. Not his fault/problem/worries that the current HW's aren't good enough to beat him. He does what he is supposed to do and that is to win his fights.

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by mh2365

MMA fighters are just guys who used to fight in bars ... most of them have killed small animals in the past ... or they are taking out their frustration of not being able to rape furry woodland creatures by fighting. Plus they are all addicted to Flintstones Vitamins and Smurf Porn.


^ just trying to live up to Tommy's expectations of guys who don't like the MMA

edit - forgot to say anyone who gets down on the ground and wrestles another guy in spandex is obviously gaye!

Not the guys who doesn't like MMA Mike. Only the ones who bash it.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by meade95

The worst idea on this forum in a long time - Issue has already been discussed several times previously - I don't have the energy nor time currently to break down to repeat what a terrible / short-sighted notion such is - The idea of a Union or Gov't back commission to help boxing is just foolishness -

I'm sorry, but you have it backwards. Boxing without a central regulating body is what's shortsighted and foolish. You don't like the word "union". Fine. Call it a "collective working establishment" or "central governing body". That way your bolde sensibilities need not be offended and we can continue on.

[bigMatt]

Gentlemen - considering comments that refer to last night's HW contest - the phrase SPOILER ALERT might have been nice.


Just sayin...

[hamed]

Originally Posted by Calis

Not sure, he's the "big talk" of MMA right now and isn't very skilled yet, so every low level guy wants a shot at him. It looks good.

The ones I remember recently are Paul Buentello(Bad fight for Kimbo at this point I think), and Gary Goodridge(Another guy who is pretty washed up, but was a tough one back in the day. Decent fight for Kimbo)

I think comparing Lesnar to Tank is a bit unfair for a couple reasons. Firstly Tank has been around for a long time and has made no attempt to expand his game and really make any sort of improvements. I also think if Brock is losing the majority of his fights he won't stick around, he'll move on to something else. I'm not sure what his attention span will be with MMA.

I'll ignore the usual MMA bashing, because what's the point?

I'm very excited about this weekends UFC card. Henderson vs. Silva will be a war, should be a great fight.

Thanks Calis, I think it was Paul - I've never heard of him before but it looks familiar. I would have recalled Gary because that's my brother's name.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by bigMatt

Gentlemen - considering comments that refer to last night's HW contest - the phrase SPOILER ALERT might have been nice.


Just sayin...

my fault totally Matt I followed him down that road.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by mh2365

my fault totally Matt I followed him down that road.

no problem. I just meandered in here without thinking and left with more knowledge than I'd hoped to acquire.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by bigMatt

no problem. I just meandered in here without thinking and left with more knowledge than I'd hoped to acquire.

Ah, the Internet...